I've waved the white flag!
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thecazstewart
Posts: 131 Member
I have officially caved. After spending some four years eating between 800-1200 calories per day including exercise, I joined EM2WL earlier this year and increased my allowance to a massive (that's what it felt like!) 1500 NET per day, which meant on exercise days I would be eating 2,000 calories or more.
But my body just keeps gaining weight and inches. After trying this for over 3 months, I've come to the conclusion that by taking the next step up to TDEE less 15% would just pile on even more weight and I'm scared that I just won't be able to shift it. I mean, this doesn't work for everyone does it?
I've had some fantastic support and advice from some lovely members who have urged me to keep going and increase the calories but I'm feeling more tired, less energised, fat, bloated and generally disgusted with myself.
If I were reporting this after say, several weeks I'd agree that it would be worth carrying on. But keeping to a consistent 1500 NET caused me to gain weight almost weekly. My clothes are tighter (especially the legs in my jeans) and the measuring tape backs that fact up.
I talked it over with my Bootcamp trainer who said the gain was more than likely muscle. But I disagree - you can't gain THAT much muscle in 3 months on such low calories and surely muscle takes up less space, not more!
He suggested not getting so caught up in counting calories and to just eat when I want to. I'm not so sure that suits me either - I like to count calories as its the only control I have.
So I have dropped to 1400 calories this week and may drop further if I need to. I'm not sure where this will take me. But seeing how much I gained by only increasing by 300 calories is enough to make me realise I can't go on increasing my intake any more.
But my body just keeps gaining weight and inches. After trying this for over 3 months, I've come to the conclusion that by taking the next step up to TDEE less 15% would just pile on even more weight and I'm scared that I just won't be able to shift it. I mean, this doesn't work for everyone does it?
I've had some fantastic support and advice from some lovely members who have urged me to keep going and increase the calories but I'm feeling more tired, less energised, fat, bloated and generally disgusted with myself.
If I were reporting this after say, several weeks I'd agree that it would be worth carrying on. But keeping to a consistent 1500 NET caused me to gain weight almost weekly. My clothes are tighter (especially the legs in my jeans) and the measuring tape backs that fact up.
I talked it over with my Bootcamp trainer who said the gain was more than likely muscle. But I disagree - you can't gain THAT much muscle in 3 months on such low calories and surely muscle takes up less space, not more!
He suggested not getting so caught up in counting calories and to just eat when I want to. I'm not so sure that suits me either - I like to count calories as its the only control I have.
So I have dropped to 1400 calories this week and may drop further if I need to. I'm not sure where this will take me. But seeing how much I gained by only increasing by 300 calories is enough to make me realise I can't go on increasing my intake any more.
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Replies
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I am sorry to hear that you decided to go back to low cals.
I hope you will find the solution in the low cals, though I doubt it. How low can you go? And will this be really the solution for the rest of your life?
This IS working for everyone. It just needs time, You have been eating so little calories for such a long time. You would need to do a full reset, to get your metabolism back up. Yes, weight gain is part of the game. But it will come off, and not only what you have gained. And what are a few weeks and lbs of gain compared to a healthy lifestyle and a good relationship to food? I wished you would reconsider.
The beauty of EM2WL is, that it is sustainable. You can enjoy your food and treats and don't have to stress over every single calorie.
Wishing you all the best0 -
I talked it over with my Bootcamp trainer who said the gain was more than likely muscle. But I disagree - you can't gain THAT much muscle in 3 months on such low calories and surely muscle takes up less space, not more!
Actually you can. Consider your VLC plan you have been on. You more than likely LOST a ton of muscle by eating so little. Now that you increased your eating, your body is starting to give you back those muscles...
You say you are netting 1500... but what does that mean in relation to your numbers? What is your BMR? Your TDEE? You could stil be eating way too little. To net 1500 and eat over 2000, says to me you are doing a ton of cardio with 500+ burns. Are you doing any weight training? Weights will build your muscle better and lose the fat faster. Cardio is great exercise, but it really doesnt have near the benefits of weight training.
Im sorry you have decided to give up and go back to VLCD. I agree with Noor. Its honestly not sustainable... what happens when you plateau again? How low can you possibly eat and still function??? 800 cals is not living at all.
We certainly do wish you would just let go.. give it some time and give yourself a fair shot.. you spent 4 YEARS eating so very little... you cant possibly expect your body to jump back and forgive you in just a short time?
Ill tell you this.. I increased 1400!!!!! cals by eating more. I came from a 1400 cal weight watchers program and I couldnt lose a single pound... I eat 2800 cals currently on Reset, and I have basically maintained my weight. NOw that my body trusts me, I cant wait to see what will happen when I make my cut next week... which is a mere 400 cals less a day..
You dont need to starve yourself to lose the weight.. You certainly dont need to eat like a bird just to fit into a pair of pants. Give yourself a break and a fighting chance to change your weight loss path and make it easier for you in the long run..
All the best0 -
I am fairly new to this group and was somewhat sceptical that this would work, I have upped my calls to 2600 and have maintained for 3 weeks and due to not drinking the correct amount of water whilst I was away I have gained a mere 3lbs, I was a little worried about this and my panic stricken mind jumped in and said "thats it! cut it back" but I have thought better of it and I am sticking to this. As the others have said it is such a small sacrifice to continue with this and do a full reset to what you will gain ( and lose!) in the long term. Also ENJOY being able to eat again! I have so much more energy, I sleep better, I workout better and my skin and wellbeing is so much better than it was on VLCD. I don't want to go back to eating like a bird, just make better choices with what you do eat and use your calories on veggies, lean protein and good fats.
Please don't give up, we are all here for you
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I agree with your trainer when he says to not get too caught up in the numbers because all it does is stress you out.
I am one who thinks this program doesn't work for everyone. After finding an old journal of when I first started losing weight I was eating roughly 1,700-1,900 cals a day but I truly think I was losing weight because I was finally exercising and cut out all sodas and sweets. Then I joined this website and switched up to eating 1,200-1,400 a day. I do have to admit that I did feel terrible and was only gaining and loosing the same 2 lbs. I found this group, got all caught up (and confused by) TDEE and BMR, started stuffing my face with food (even though I wasn't hungry) and gained 9lbs and clothes started feeling fine. I wasn't netting my BMR so everyone was telling me to eat more. After gaining a few more lbs I'm at the point of screw it.
I adjusted my own numbers to what suits me. I'm currently eating 1,600-1,800 and walking 30minutes per day and doing some weight lifting. I eat if I'm hungry and if not then I listen to my body and don't eat. It makes no sense to me to eat if I'm not hungry at all.
the best advice I can give is to listen to yourself. Everyone is different and I don't care how many ppl say it, not all programs are going to work for everyone.0 -
If say you probably need a full reset after 4 years of LCD but you know your body best and need to do what makes sense to you. I'm on week six of an eight week reset and I don't like any of the changes in my body so far. Physically and mentally I felt MUCH better back when I was doing tons of cardio and netting 500-900. I felt so thin and beautiful....but my hair fell out, like scalp-showing kind of hair loss. So I know even tho I loved my body on VLC, my body wasn't thriving the way I thought it was. So here I am feeling tired and sluggish, fat and ugly with muscular thighs that are now too big to fit nicely into my 5/6 jeans. And now that I'm eating more I'm starving ALL THE TIME. Yet my TDEE isn't high enough to let me eat until I'm full, generally. Basically I'm a hot *kitten* mess right now just trying to white knuckle my way through this thing. I am dutifully lifting heavy, I feel muscle everywhere so there's that, except I don't like how any of it looks and I just want to see my ribs and hip bones and abs again. I hate how dense my legs look, it's just as bad as being fat except it's all solid instead of flabby, but still THICK. I miss my skinny VLCD legs so much I could scream, but I'm determined to stick this out and see where it gets me. If it works, awesome, if not I'll go back to LCD and just not NET below my BMR anymore. Buy a wig if I have to lmao. The only thing that is not an option for me is wearing anything larger than a 5/6 again. So know that your body probably wants you to do a reset, yes resetting sucks *kitten* for those of us who don't magically lose weight doing so (I never stopped losing on VLC like some people do), and it will rip you apart inside to sit on your hands for 8 weeks and let your hard-won skinny slip away, and yes it will piss you off, but at the end of the day, it's probably a good idea. For everyone. If they can tough thru 8 weeks of psychological hell.0
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Nothing works for everyone. Some people won't have success at this, for a variety of reasons. I like this approach, eating too little was making me miserable and having the energy to do weights everyday is great. But some people won't be able to make this work.0
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If say you probably need a full reset after 4 years of LCD but you know your body best and need to do what makes sense to you. I'm on week six of an eight week reset and I don't like any of the changes in my body so far. Physically and mentally I felt MUCH better back when I was doing tons of cardio and netting 500-900. I felt so thin and beautiful....but my hair fell out, like scalp-showing kind of hair loss. So I know even tho I loved my body on VLC, my body wasn't thriving the way I thought it was. So here I am feeling tired and sluggish, fat and ugly with muscular thighs that are now too big to fit nicely into my 5/6 jeans. And now that I'm eating more I'm starving ALL THE TIME. Yet my TDEE isn't high enough to let me eat until I'm full, generally. Basically I'm a hot *kitten* mess right now just trying to white knuckle my way through this thing. I am dutifully lifting heavy, I feel muscle everywhere so there's that, except I don't like how any of it looks and I just want to see my ribs and hip bones and abs again. I hate how dense my legs look, it's just as bad as being fat except it's all solid instead of flabby, but still THICK. I miss my skinny VLCD legs so much I could scream, but I'm determined to stick this out and see where it gets me. If it works, awesome, if not I'll go back to LCD and just not NET below my BMR anymore. Buy a wig if I have to lmao. The only thing that is not an option for me is wearing anything larger than a 5/6 again. So know that your body probably wants you to do a reset, yes resetting sucks *kitten* for those of us who don't magically lose weight doing so (I never stopped losing on VLC like some people do), and it will rip you apart inside to sit on your hands for 8 weeks and let your hard-won skinny slip away, and yes it will piss you off, but at the end of the day, it's probably a good idea. For everyone. If they can tough thru 8 weeks of psychological hell.
I so feel for you....I was feeling like this on just 1500 NET per day....goodness only knows how I would cope on 2,300 per day whether I exercised or not.
I know this regime is logical and makes total sense. But given the sheer number of members to this group, I would be happier to read hundreds of success stories of members who have done their reset and are now happily losing steadily on their 15% cut. But unless I'm looking in the wrong place, I can only find a few members enjoying the fruits of their labour.
And if eating at TDEE-15% was that easy, surely lots of people would be automatically finding themselves losing when they're unable to stick to a VLCD?
Sorry for my sceptisism....0 -
I am just going to toss in my 2 cents, this program may not be for everyone as was mentioned, and there are things in people's life that will cause weight fluctuations and so forth but lets look at the outside world..
There are tons of weight loss programs making bucket loads of money on people (weight watchers, nutrisystem, jenny craig etc) all because they give you meals that have low calories and get you at that 1200 calorie a day amount.. I read on here that people were doing WW and when they would enter their meals they would be netting less than 1200 after working out.. Sure if you stick with that you will lose weight, if you have weight to lose.. until you plateau then you are stuck.. your body won't give you anything else.. this is where most people lose 20lbs, 30lbs.. you know thats great but back to my other point, you know why they continue to make money cause those same people that lost 30lbs go off the program and in 1 year (maybe less/more) regain that weight and sometimes more.. and its an endless cycle..
People today are all about How quick can I have something, how fast will I be like that.. people have a problem looking forward its always the quick fix.. I know its a pain, I know everyone hates weight gain, inches gain, clothes feeling tighter.. I hate it, and everyone on MFP hates it.. sure this might not be for everyone, but eating 1200 calories (or less) a day isn't the answer, gotta find what works.
(this is my rant, I could rant on the same people that sell diet pills.. talk about making money)0 -
I know this regime is logical and makes total sense. But given the sheer number of members to this group, I would be happier to read hundreds of success stories of members who have done their reset and are now happily losing steadily on their 15% cut. But unless I'm looking in the wrong place, I can only find a few members enjoying the fruits of their labour.
And if eating at TDEE-15% was that easy, surely lots of people would be automatically finding themselves losing when they're unable to stick to a VLCD?
Sorry for my sceptisism....
OMFG you're RIGHT. Out of thousands of members I've seen a handful say this is the best thing ever and they have lost soooooo much weight. The rest are all either gaining weight and freaking out or gaining weight and waxing philosophical about it. I measured this morning and some of my measurements are up, my weight is definitely up but I've been lifting like crazy so that's not as horrifying as my increasingly thick butt and thighs. Ugh. Maybe 6 weeks is enough. LCD never made me as miserable and self loathing as this has.
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I know this regime is logical and makes total sense. But given the sheer number of members to this group, I would be happier to read hundreds of success stories of members who have done their reset and are now happily losing steadily on their 15% cut. But unless I'm looking in the wrong place, I can only find a few members enjoying the fruits of their labour.
And if eating at TDEE-15% was that easy, surely lots of people would be automatically finding themselves losing when they're unable to stick to a VLCD?
Sorry for my sceptisism....
OMFG you're RIGHT. Out of thousands of members I've seen a handful say this is the best thing ever and they have lost soooooo much weight. The rest are all either gaining weight and freaking out or gaining weight and waxing philosophical about it. I measured this morning and some of my measurements are up, my weight is definitely up but I've been lifting like crazy so that's not as horrifying as my increasingly thick butt and thighs. Ugh. Maybe 6 weeks is enough. LCD never made me as miserable and self loathing as this has.
The group itself is still fairly new, so "we" might not have a tone of success stories.. but if you go into the Success forum, you will find a vast number of threads about people who have essentially done the same thing.. Eat at a higher level, eating at their cut, and lost it all.. they may not belong to this group, but they have done exactly what we are saying will work..0 -
There are a bunch of conversations in Weight loss and Fitness that have people not on here eating and still losing or building muscle0
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I know this regime is logical and makes total sense. But given the sheer number of members to this group, I would be happier to read hundreds of success stories of members who have done their reset and are now happily losing steadily on their 15% cut. But unless I'm looking in the wrong place, I can only find a few members enjoying the fruits of their labour.
And if eating at TDEE-15% was that easy, surely lots of people would be automatically finding themselves losing when they're unable to stick to a VLCD?
Sorry for my sceptisism....
OMFG you're RIGHT. Out of thousands of members I've seen a handful say this is the best thing ever and they have lost soooooo much weight. The rest are all either gaining weight and freaking out or gaining weight and waxing philosophical about it. I measured this morning and some of my measurements are up, my weight is definitely up but I've been lifting like crazy so that's not as horrifying as my increasingly thick butt and thighs. Ugh. Maybe 6 weeks is enough. LCD never made me as miserable and self loathing as this has.
There are some pretty good points here. I was on VLCD for about 7 months,--the standard 1200 per day, then eating back exercise cals--I thought I was doing myself a great service by being very conservative with the amount I burned. I don't think it helped me in the long run, but at the time I was losing and it was great. And then I plateaued, and that is how I found this group.
One big struggle I am facing is that I think I did the opposite this time around-- I falsely considered myself "moderate" in activity level. But the fact is that I do 30 minute workouts 5 - 6 days a week, and I work a desk job. I am not lazy, but I am not ready to commit to hours at the gym or a weight set. I like my TAM. Now I feel like the bad guy in a way, like I am not willing to do it for me, or whatever. There are quite a few good success stories here doing this. I also listen to Fat2fitradio.com which has some fantastic points about BMR and eating more to weigh less. I don't want to be made to feel guilty if I am not doing a full reset or not sticking with a VHCD (ha!) for long enough. What it comes down to is instincts--I am sure when we were all eating like hummingbirds we knew deep down that it wasn't right. That may be the same way when we are making peanut butter smoothies at 10 p.m. when we haven't met our numbers. I think we know what is right for us, and despite what everyone says, if you really just turn off all the noise for a minute you know what you need to do.
I think being skeptical of anything is good--it gets you thinking and doing research. It may not work for every body, but it just might work for you, so if nothing else is, then it's worth a shot, no?0 -
I have officially caved. After spending some four years eating between 800-1200 calories per day including exercise, I joined EM2WL earlier this year and increased my allowance to a massive (that's what it felt like!) 1500 NET per day, which meant on exercise days I would be eating 2,000 calories or more.
Hi, were you reaching/maintaining your goals on the lower calories? Also, have you considered the Eat-stop-eat approach?0 -
I have officially caved. After spending some four years eating between 800-1200 calories per day including exercise, I joined EM2WL earlier this year and increased my allowance to a massive (that's what it felt like!) 1500 NET per day, which meant on exercise days I would be eating 2,000 calories or more.
Hi, were you reaching/maintaining your goals on the lower calories? Also, have you considered the Eat-stop-eat approach?
what is this Eat Stop Eat approch?0 -
I am just going to toss in my 2 cents, this program may not be for everyone as was mentioned, and there are things in people's life that will cause weight fluctuations and so forth but lets look at the outside world..
There are tons of weight loss programs making bucket loads of money on people (weight watchers, nutrisystem, jenny craig etc) all because they give you meals that have low calories and get you at that 1200 calorie a day amount.. I read on here that people were doing WW and when they would enter their meals they would be netting less than 1200 after working out.. Sure if you stick with that you will lose weight, if you have weight to lose.. until you plateau then you are stuck.. your body won't give you anything else.. this is where most people lose 20lbs, 30lbs.. you know thats great but back to my other point, you know why they continue to make money cause those same people that lost 30lbs go off the program and in 1 year (maybe less/more) regain that weight and sometimes more.. and its an endless cycle..
People today are all about How quick can I have something, how fast will I be like that.. people have a problem looking forward its always the quick fix.. I know its a pain, I know everyone hates weight gain, inches gain, clothes feeling tighter.. I hate it, and everyone on MFP hates it.. sure this might not be for everyone, but eating 1200 calories (or less) a day isn't the answer, gotta find what works.
(this is my rant, I could rant on the same people that sell diet pills.. talk about making money)
This resonated with me so much. Having been on weight watcher's numerous times, it's a bit sad to think what else I could've done with that money. I'd rather be on this slow and steady path to lifetime health than the nonstop yoyocoaster of low-cal life.
Also, what are you after exactly? A certain look or health? Low cal can wreak havoc on the hormonal system. Is it really worth all that?
I'm going to be completely honest here. You haven't followed the philosophy of EM2WL yet. You've increased calories and you were definitely heading in the right direction. But you're body was still working on recovering from low cal and grabbing and holding onto any fat that it could for it's next famine, which you have decided will be now. To truly give this a try you would need to go all the way up to your TDEE and reset your metabolism. Based on your low-cal history, this is the way that I see you being successful.
If you change your mind we'd love to have you stick around. If not, you'd always be welcome to come back. I truly hope that for your sake you think about it and decide to give your body some love.0 -
I have officially caved. After spending some four years eating between 800-1200 calories per day including exercise, I joined EM2WL earlier this year and increased my allowance to a massive (that's what it felt like!) 1500 NET per day, which meant on exercise days I would be eating 2,000 calories or more.
Hi, were you reaching/maintaining your goals on the lower calories? Also, have you considered the Eat-stop-eat approach?
After losing nearly 63 pounds on a VLCD I hit a plateau that has lasted 12 months. I have another 10-16 pounds to go although I am wearing UK size 12 tops and uk size 14 bottoms. At pre-diet size I was size 22.
I wore my HRM all day yesterday from 7am to 10pm and it was a typical day where I excluded my exercise to find my non-exercise figure although I appreciate, an HRM isn't really accurate. But my figure was 1600 calories burned.
I am now considering a cycle calorie method which I guess is eat-stop-eat. I will stick to 1400 cals mon-fri and eat how I like (but still within healthy parameters) at the weekends. Is this what you mean?0 -
I have officially caved. After spending some four years eating between 800-1200 calories per day including exercise, I joined EM2WL earlier this year and increased my allowance to a massive (that's what it felt like!) 1500 NET per day, which meant on exercise days I would be eating 2,000 calories or more.
Hi, were you reaching/maintaining your goals on the lower calories? Also, have you considered the Eat-stop-eat approach?
After losing nearly 63 pounds on a VLCD I hit a plateau that has lasted 12 months. I have another 10-16 pounds to go although I am wearing UK size 12 tops and uk size 14 bottoms. At pre-diet size I was size 22.
I wore my HRM all day yesterday from 7am to 10pm and it was a typical day where I excluded my exercise to find my non-exercise figure although I appreciate, an HRM isn't really accurate. But my figure was 1600 calories burned.
I am now considering a cycle calorie method which I guess is eat-stop-eat. I will stick to 1400 cals mon-fri and eat how I like (but still within healthy parameters) at the weekends. Is this what you mean?
First off, nice work on making such great progress - you should feel great about that. And it is always that last 10 pounds that's the hardest.
Regarding Eat Stop Eat, it's a little different from the calorie cycline, in that most days you eat at a reasonable calorie level (maybe 500 - 1000 below your TDEE), but one day a week you work in a total fast - you eat nothing during that 24 hour period. You can start the fast whenever you'd like - I usually start it sometime between 6 & 8pm, and go through to 6-8pm the next night. (I'm actually just finishing up a fasting day right now - 6pm ET can't come fast enough!
The important thing on ESE is that you eat normally the rest of the time: e.g., I'll have a normal dinner tonight, not a killer huge dinner that in any way makes up for the calories I didn't get in earlier in the day. Tomorrow will also be a normal day: I'll exercise and eat at about a 1000 calorie deficit below my TDEE. I might fast again on Monday. Also, it's fine to exercise on fasting days. You basically just live your life, do everything you would have done anyway, just don't eat anything with calories for that 24-hour period.
The benefit of the ESE approach is that, instead of shaving off calories every day, you lump all those missed calories into a single time block, which is apparently no big deal for the human body to handle. (True, you do end up thinking about food a lot, as I can personally attest...)
You do need to drink plenty of fluids, and you can drink anything that's zero-calorie: water, tea, coffee, diet soda, etc. As long as they have no calories, you're ok.
I've been doing this for a few weeks, and I can tell that it really has been working, and I have had absolutely zero negative side effects. I can honestly say that today, even though I've thought about food, I really haven't felt hungry yet. I think I'm thinking about food out of habit - and of course when someone walks by me with something that smells good.
Just something to think about, and good luck. And again, great work on your progress!0 -
I have officially caved. After spending some four years eating between 800-1200 calories per day including exercise, I joined EM2WL earlier this year and increased my allowance to a massive (that's what it felt like!) 1500 NET per day, which meant on exercise days I would be eating 2,000 calories or more.
Hi, were you reaching/maintaining your goals on the lower calories? Also, have you considered the Eat-stop-eat approach?
After losing nearly 63 pounds on a VLCD I hit a plateau that has lasted 12 months. I have another 10-16 pounds to go although I am wearing UK size 12 tops and uk size 14 bottoms. At pre-diet size I was size 22.
I wore my HRM all day yesterday from 7am to 10pm and it was a typical day where I excluded my exercise to find my non-exercise figure although I appreciate, an HRM isn't really accurate. But my figure was 1600 calories burned.
I am now considering a cycle calorie method which I guess is eat-stop-eat. I will stick to 1400 cals mon-fri and eat how I like (but still within healthy parameters) at the weekends. Is this what you mean?
First off, nice work on making such great progress - you should feel great about that. And it is always that last 10 pounds that's the hardest.
Regarding Eat Stop Eat, it's a little different from the calorie cycline, in that most days you eat at a reasonable calorie level (maybe 500 - 1000 below your TDEE), but one day a week you work in a total fast - you eat nothing during that 24 hour period. You can start the fast whenever you'd like - I usually start it sometime between 6 & 8pm, and go through to 6-8pm the next night. (I'm actually just finishing up a fasting day right now - 6pm ET can't come fast enough!
The important thing on ESE is that you eat normally the rest of the time: e.g., I'll have a normal dinner tonight, not a killer huge dinner that in any way makes up for the calories I didn't get in earlier in the day. Tomorrow will also be a normal day: I'll exercise and eat at about a 1000 calorie deficit below my TDEE. I might fast again on Monday. Also, it's fine to exercise on fasting days. You basically just live your life, do everything you would have done anyway, just don't eat anything with calories for that 24-hour period.
The benefit of the ESE approach is that, instead of shaving off calories every day, you lump all those missed calories into a single time block, which is apparently no big deal for the human body to handle. (True, you do end up thinking about food a lot, as I can personally attest...)
You do need to drink plenty of fluids, and you can drink anything that's zero-calorie: water, tea, coffee, diet soda, etc. As long as they have no calories, you're ok.
I've been doing this for a few weeks, and I can tell that it really has been working, and I have had absolutely zero negative side effects. I can honestly say that today, even though I've thought about food, I really haven't felt hungry yet. I think I'm thinking about food out of habit - and of course when someone walks by me with something that smells good.
Just something to think about, and good luck. And again, great work on your progress!
If I ate 1000 calories below my TDEE I'd be eating about 1100 calories a day + workouts I'd be netting around 800 calories. That doesn't sound particularly healthy to me. Even 500 calories that's still like 1400. 1400 is more manageable than the 1200 I was doing but I don't see how this can be good for you??0
