Awful cramp - electrolytes not solving. Help!

MissMaggie3

I'm really struggling here because of bad cramp at night, and I'm almost at the point of giving up. This is one last attempt to see if anyone has any further ideas.

I'm age 56, and I was already getting occasional cramps at night as many older people do. But now on a (very strict) keto diet it is almost every night and I'm not functioning well through lack of sleep.

I've been on the regime for 7 weeks, but for the first 4 weeks I think I was coming out of ketosis once a day as a result of a silly mistake on the carbs. I've been at 20g of carbs or less for 3 full weeks now, with no lapses. I do not think I am adapted yet - no energy surge etc.

I drink plenty of water, and I take high doses of potassium and magnesium (to the point of an upset stomach if I'm not careful). I'm liberal with the sea salt on my food and I'm getting plenty of calcium through dietary sources. I do stretching exercises before getting into bed.

Please, does anyone have any other thoughts about what might help?

And one more question - if / when fully keto adapted, do the cramps go away?

sljohnson1207

I think if you have been salting your food and taking a mag/pot supplement and are still getting cramps, you need to see a doctor.

The only other things I can think of are dehydration from not drinking enough while on this naturally diuretic way of eating. Try drinking warm broth twice a day and see if that helps.
If it does not, see above advice about the doctor.

aeb09

Most likely you need to take a magnesium and potassium supplement. I buy potassium chloride powder from Bulk Apothecary and make Keto Gatorade twice a day using 20oz water, 1tsp potassium chloride and 1 packet of Crystal Light To Go. I also take one 500mg magnesium pill each night after dinner. I was having horrible leg cramps in the summer and started this regimen in July. No leg cramps since starting.

BansheeCat

Are you taking acidolpholus tablets for digestive balance.? I find those pills help especially with GERD issues. I usually find them at a health food store in refridgeration. They're a little pricey but worth it to ease that discomfort.

MissMaggie3

Thanks everybody. I'm still getting cramp, but now going to bed earlier just to get more sleep between attacks! Specific responses:

@sljohnson1207 - I know my doctor would simply tell me to stop the diet! I am drinking a lot of water, but did find this interesting paper http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/whats-causing-my-muscles-to-cram.html/ which included the point that the more water you drink, the more diluted the electrolytes are (amongst other things). So am trying to push the upper limited a little. Good point about the broth, but am vegetarian. Trying bouillon / miso soup instead.
-
@aeb09 - have been taking plenty of magnesium and potassium since the start, but split the dose morning and night. Do you think I should take all at night?

@BansheeCat - yes, I am already taking an expensive probiotic which contains acidophulus, amongst other things.

The longer this goes on, the more determined I am to see it through. It's now 25 days on 20g carbs. Please let the adaptation be soon! My current contingency plan, if it doesn't resolve soon, is to increase the carbs a little while hopefully staying in ketosis - I have a big event next week and can't let myself be exhausted.

mherbert0

I have 2 thoughts:

1. Are you getting enough Vitamin B12? The B vitamin complex is more difficult to get for vegetarians unless you eat enough eggs/dairy. I've heard (anecdotaly) that B12 deficiency can be associated with muscle cramping.
2. Are you getting enough protein? If you are performing a lot of strenuous exercise, you could be depleting your glucose stores in your muscles. When not eating any carbs, you may need some extra protein to re-stock glucose stores via gluconeogenesis.

MissMaggie3

Thanks for your thoughts @mherbert - I appreciate it.

I've got the B12 thing covered - it may not mean anything, but I have a mutation on the MTHFR gene, and require a special form of B12 which I've been taking daily for a couple of years now. I do also eat eggs and dairy.

Protein? 72g today, and the last few days have been 63g, 78g, 54g, 75g, 71g, 53g, 62g. Do you think that's enough? This may be something - I lift weights a couple of times a week, and do cardio on other days (although not too strenuous). I am ravenous after lifting, but then that's always been the case.

BansheeCat

MissMaggie3 wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts @mherbert - I appreciate it.

I've got the B12 thing covered - it may not mean anything, but I have a mutation on the MTHFR gene, and require a special form of B12 which I've been taking daily for a couple of years now. I do also eat eggs and dairy.

Protein? 72g today, and the last few days have been 63g, 78g, 54g, 75g, 71g, 53g, 62g. Do you think that's enough? This may be something - I lift weights a couple of times a week, and do cardio on other days (although not too strenuous). I am ravenous after lifting, but then that's always been the case.

I don't remember if someone mentioned it but dehydration can cause stomach cramping. Try keeping your protein in the lower range to see if there's an improvement. Perhaps ease up on the cardio for now. I went all out on exercise and my body just couldnt' handle it. Same with high protein. 68-72 a day made me sick.

here are some links I found of people with similar issues:
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1b0jr6/stomach_cramps_on_keto/
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121578971

It might be time to make a doctor's appt. Just to be safe.

MissMaggie3

Thanks @BansheeCat. I now realise that I didn't make it clear - the cramp is in my legs!

ali59oc

I had exactly the same thing. I was taking a magnesium supplement but it was magnesium citrate. You want to get Magnesium Aspartate. Since I've been taking the M.A. my leg cramps have all but disappeared. I also read that if you are taking any sort of HRT, have non-treated diabetes, stress and a host of other ailments, these (plus the keto diet) could be causing your leg cramps.

Foamroller

Hi MissMaggie,

I used to have horrible cramping several times a day, sometimes waking up in the night or waking up with cramps in morning, mostly in my lats , so this might not be related to your problems. When I started taking L-Glutamine for other reasons, the cramping reduced significantly.

Agree on broth at night. I do low-carb-ish 40-100. When I feel jittery I take some bouillon.

Maybe try take the magnesium before bed? I read somewhere most of the cell repairs are done while in deep sleep...and someone advised doing this, so purely anecdotal.

Good luck on the event:)

mherbert0

MissMaggie3 wrote: »

Thanks for your thoughts @mherbert - I appreciate it.

Protein? 72g today, and the last few days have been 63g, 78g, 54g, 75g, 71g, 53g, 62g. Do you think that's enough? This may be something - I lift weights a couple of times a week, and do cardio on other days (although not too strenuous). I am ravenous after lifting, but then that's always been the case.

MissMaggie, I honestly can't say if that is enough protein or not, it depends on your weight and physical activity. I'm sure you know this, but you do have to be careful not to eat too much protein, or it can knock you out of ketosis (due to gluconeogensis).

I had another thought that may be worth looking into as well. If you are veg, than you may be pushing your pH to alkaline. I have read that imbalances in pH can cause cramping. You said you are taking potassium supplements? Are they potassium-citrate (alkaline), potassium-gluconate (neutral pH), or potassium-chloride (acidic)? It might help you to switch it up (especially if you are taking the supplement before bed).

DittoDan

MissMaggie3 wrote: »

Thanks @BansheeCat. I now realise that I didn't make it clear - the cramp is in my legs!

Hi Miss Maggie. How much Magnesium do you take a day? and what form do you take?

Dan the man from Michigan

MissMaggie3

Gosh, I really appreciate all these thoughtful replies!

First of all, an interesting convergence on Magnesium. @Ali59oc, @DittoDan, I have been taking Magnesium Citrate - tablet form from Solgar - at 450mg per day. Thanks @Ali59oc, I will definitely try the Aspartate version and see if there is such a dramatic difference for me. And thanks, too, @foamroller - I've ordered some l-glutamine. @mherbert - the protein things is so confusing: Some people say eat more while in the adaptation phase, and others say keep it low. I feel I'm about OK, and according to one of the popular calculators, yesterday (for example) my diet was 'very ketogenic' at 83% fat, 13% protein and 4% carbs (22g). I'm only using ketostix, but am consistently deep pink to purple, even with plenty of water. But I'm not sure if the Aspartate type of Magnesium is acidic or alkaline ...

Having said all of the above, I am still getting cramp every night, but for the last 2 / 3 nights it has been less painful; I've been able to turn over and go back to sleep. And I am very pleased to say that I woke up feeling really great this morning! I sense a shift of some kind - maybe I'm finally adapting? Today is day 27, so it's about time.

MissMaggie3

P.S. Forgot to say - I'm 5' 2" and 114 pounds.

MissMaggie3

3 nights with no cramp! Do you think I've cracked it? Haven't even taken any different supplements yet.

baconslave

Hope so!

MissMaggie3

Nope. I was wrong. Last night it was the worst ever - I was crying out loud with the pain. Have bought some spray-on magnesium (no aspartate in the shops here in the UK - have to wait for online delivery). Wise woman in health food shop strongly urged me to drink more water.

wonderfullymadebyhim

I was just having horrible leg cramps this week and decided to make my own beef bone broth in the slow cooker because I watched a video by one of the leading Keto researchers, Phinney. He mentioned that the Inuit survived long bouts of Ketosis by drinking bone broth. Apparently, a lot of the bone minerals, like potassium leach into the water. Plus it is delicious! To make get a small bag of beef bones, a roughly chopped onion, sprinkling of carrots, couple chopped celery stalks, pepper corns, salt and a couple bay leaves... fill to top with water and slow cook for 24-48 hours. Cool, skim fat and drink! Suddenly my cramps are disappearing after just a couple cups!!

wonderfullymadebyhim

Other sources of potassium include avocados, Windsor "Half Salt", nuts and seeds, brussel sprouts, cheese, broccoli, spinach and tomatoes. Good luck!!

DittoDan

MissMaggie3 wrote: »

P.S. Forgot to say - I'm 5' 2" and 114 pounds.

You're not very big. I am about 275bs. and (2) pills (400mg) aren't enough for me. I am upping dose to (3) @ day. I had a cramp this morning and it was really weird. Usually its my calf and I hop out of bed in horrific pain. But this morning, my calf and ankle area just got real stiff and had a slow pulling tightness/cramp in my leg. Standing up on it helped only a tiny bit. No position would help it. I never had a cramp like that before. I'm going to take (2) before going to sleep. and one mid day and see if it gets better. Please note that I am a sedentary person, I am sure my muscles are not in very good shape.

Dan the Man from Michigan

MissMaggie3

Thanks both. Still getting cramp, but I'm beginning to think there may be something else wrong, like thyroid issues. I'm so exhausted all the time now, and I should be well-adapted by now (7 weeks). Time to make an appointment, I think.