HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lisa1971
Posts: 3,069 Member
So I just started this week on keto. Doing great so far and feeling wonderful. I had some bloodwork done last week and my doctor just called and told me that my total cholesterol is 256! GASP! Then he said "Lower your fat intake, increase your exercise, and lower your calories." He wants to recheck my bloodwork in 4 months. I don't know what to do now! I exercise HARD 4-5 days a week and burn 400-500 calories at each workout. My fat level WAS on the low side and I felt horrible. Now that I've increased it my cravings are just about gone and I have more energy during the day. Now my doctor is telling me to decrease my fat intake?
I don't know what to do. He told me that eating a diet high in fat will further increase my cholesterol levels. I'm so confused and need HELP!
I don't know what to do. He told me that eating a diet high in fat will further increase my cholesterol levels. I'm so confused and need HELP!
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Lisa;So I just started this week on keto. Doing great so far and feeling wonderful. I had some bloodwork done last week and my doctor just called and told me that my total cholesterol is 256! GASP! Then he said "Lower your fat intake, increase your exercise, and lower your calories." He wants to recheck my bloodwork in 4 months. I don't know what to do now! I exercise HARD 4-5 days a week and burn 400-500 calories at each workout. My fat level WAS on the low side and I felt horrible. Now that I've increased it my cravings are just about gone and I have more energy during the day. Now my doctor is telling me to decrease my fat intake?
I don't know what to do. He told me that eating a diet high in fat will further increase my cholesterol levels. I'm so confused and need HELP!
I can't (and won't) tell you what to do - only YOU can decide that.
I can tell you what I would do though.
First thing I would do is read as many "back" threads as you can on here AND on the Low Carbers Daily Forum group - there is a WEALTH of info available there that will help you decide "what to do".
The cliff notes version (IMO) is, were it me, I consider the 4 months a "grace period" in which to find a new doc (one that has a "clue" about what the current research (as in the last 15-25 years) has demonstrated).
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So I just started this week on keto. Doing great so far and feeling wonderful. I had some bloodwork done last week and my doctor just called and told me that my total cholesterol is 256! GASP! Then he said "Lower your fat intake, increase your exercise, and lower your calories." He wants to recheck my bloodwork in 4 months. I don't know what to do now! I exercise HARD 4-5 days a week and burn 400-500 calories at each workout. My fat level WAS on the low side and I felt horrible. Now that I've increased it my cravings are just about gone and I have more energy during the day. Now my doctor is telling me to decrease my fat intake?
I don't know what to do. He told me that eating a diet high in fat will further increase my cholesterol levels. I'm so confused and need HELP!
In short I agree with DeansDad --only you can decide to go against your doctor's orders. Off the bat the time to test is too premature for any diet to take affect. That's fishy to me unless he put you on a statin med as well.
Long version:
A couple of question for your doc--
What is your HDL/LDL, your triglicerides, and c-reactive protein? LDL-P or ApoB test results? The number is too vague. Either the doc isn't telling your everything or he didn't test what he should have.
High fat/doesn't equivilate to high (LDL) cholestoral. Eating cholestoral might if you're a hyper responder (which is a rare hereditary condition). That's what the ApoB test is for and is indicated in your gene sequence. C- Reactive Protein tells your inflamation level in your blood that can be caused by a high Omega 6/ low Omega 3 diet which is the issue with the traditional American diet. Saturated Fat equals BAD---Unsaturated fat GOOD. Not really when it's out of balance. I don't remember where I was reading a statistic but the average American consumes 8-25 times Omega 6 compared to Omega 3. The idea should be 1:1.
A couple of fun facts: 75% of people who have a heart attack have normal to excellent HDL/LDL. The Maasai People eat predominately raw cattle meat, raw milk, and raw blood--cholestoral levels in "dangerous levels" but no heart disease, or any disease for that matter, in their society.
Now that lipid lesson is over by an untrained medical professional--lol , I think the real confusion is whether to keep this doc or not. If I were you I'd tell him you're doing the ketogenic diet because of ______________. He doesn't have to keep you but you might be surprised he'll keep you on as a willing test subject. If not ---there are other docs out there who'll be more open-minded.
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BansheeCat wrote: »So I just started this week on keto. Doing great so far and feeling wonderful. I had some bloodwork done last week and my doctor just called and told me that my total cholesterol is 256! GASP! Then he said "Lower your fat intake, increase your exercise, and lower your calories." He wants to recheck my bloodwork in 4 months. I don't know what to do now! I exercise HARD 4-5 days a week and burn 400-500 calories at each workout. My fat level WAS on the low side and I felt horrible. Now that I've increased it my cravings are just about gone and I have more energy during the day. Now my doctor is telling me to decrease my fat intake?
I don't know what to do. He told me that eating a diet high in fat will further increase my cholesterol levels. I'm so confused and need HELP!
In short I agree with DeansDad --only you can decide to go against your doctor's orders. Off the bat the time to test is too premature for any diet to take affect. That's fishy to me unless he put you on a statin med as well.
Long version:
A couple of question for your doc--
What is your HDL/LDL, your triglicerides, and c-reactive protein? LDL-P or ApoB test results? The number is too vague. Either the doc isn't telling your everything or he didn't test what he should have.
High fat/doesn't equivilate to high (LDL) cholestoral. Eating cholestoral might if you're a hyper responder (which is a rare hereditary condition). That's what the ApoB test is for and is indicated in your gene sequence. C- Reactive Protein tells your inflamation level in your blood that can be caused by a high Omega 6/ low Omega 3 diet which is the issue with the traditional American diet. Saturated Fat equals BAD---Unsaturated fat GOOD. Not really when it's out of balance. I don't remember where I was reading a statistic but the average American consumes 8-25 times Omega 6 compared to Omega 3. The idea should be 1:1.
A couple of fun facts: 75% of people who have a heart attack have normal to excellent HDL/LDL. The Maasai People eat predominately raw cattle meat, raw milk, and raw blood--cholestoral levels in "dangerous levels" but no heart disease, or any disease for that matter, in their society.
Now that lipid lesson is over by an untrained medical professional--lol , I think the real confusion is whether to keep this doc or not. If I were you I'd tell him you're doing the ketogenic diet because of ______________. He doesn't have to keep you but you might be surprised he'll keep you on as a willing test subject. If not ---there are other docs out there who'll be more open-minded.
WOW! You just made my head explode. LOL! I'm going to have my bloodwork rechecked in 4-6 months and then if my cholesterol numbers are better I'll tell him I'm doing keto and ask his opinion. From what I've read hopefully my numbers will decrease. Thanks so much for all the info.
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BansheeCat wrote: »So I just started this week on keto. Doing great so far and feeling wonderful. I had some bloodwork done last week and my doctor just called and told me that my total cholesterol is 256! GASP! Then he said "Lower your fat intake, increase your exercise, and lower your calories." He wants to recheck my bloodwork in 4 months. I don't know what to do now! I exercise HARD 4-5 days a week and burn 400-500 calories at each workout. My fat level WAS on the low side and I felt horrible. Now that I've increased it my cravings are just about gone and I have more energy during the day. Now my doctor is telling me to decrease my fat intake?
I don't know what to do. He told me that eating a diet high in fat will further increase my cholesterol levels. I'm so confused and need HELP!
In short I agree with DeansDad --only you can decide to go against your doctor's orders. Off the bat the time to test is too premature for any diet to take affect. That's fishy to me unless he put you on a statin med as well.
Long version:
A couple of question for your doc--
What is your HDL/LDL, your triglicerides, and c-reactive protein? LDL-P or ApoB test results? The number is too vague. Either the doc isn't telling your everything or he didn't test what he should have.
High fat/doesn't equivilate to high (LDL) cholestoral. Eating cholestoral might if you're a hyper responder (which is a rare hereditary condition). That's what the ApoB test is for and is indicated in your gene sequence. C- Reactive Protein tells your inflamation level in your blood that can be caused by a high Omega 6/ low Omega 3 diet which is the issue with the traditional American diet. Saturated Fat equals BAD---Unsaturated fat GOOD. Not really when it's out of balance. I don't remember where I was reading a statistic but the average American consumes 8-25 times Omega 6 compared to Omega 3. The idea should be 1:1.
A couple of fun facts: 75% of people who have a heart attack have normal to excellent HDL/LDL. The Maasai People eat predominately raw cattle meat, raw milk, and raw blood--cholestoral levels in "dangerous levels" but no heart disease, or any disease for that matter, in their society.
Now that lipid lesson is over by an untrained medical professional--lol , I think the real confusion is whether to keep this doc or not. If I were you I'd tell him you're doing the ketogenic diet because of ______________. He doesn't have to keep you but you might be surprised he'll keep you on as a willing test subject. If not ---there are other docs out there who'll be more open-minded.
WOW! You just made my head explode. LOL! I'm going to have my bloodwork rechecked in 4-6 months and then if my cholesterol numbers are better I'll tell him I'm doing keto and ask his opinion. From what I've read hopefully my numbers will decrease. Thanks so much for all the info.
If he only looked at your total cholesterol, and used that as his basis to tell you to eat less fat, I wouldn't even bother. I'd find a new doctor now. He's running on ancient information and from the looks of it doesn't have much interest in getting himself up to date (otherwise he would have sometime in the past twenty years or so).0 -
my doc put me on meds after checking everything....I was very stressed because of my new eating style.I finally found something that worked and was losing weight!!! He said to keep doing what I was doing, it was in my family and wasn't what I ate,and losing weight would only improve my overall health. So I take my meds, and continue my eating plan 0
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Lisa,
I agree with what everybody else has already said. As BansheeCat has pointed out, you do need to get a more comprehensive blood test than the standard "cholesterol panel". Most standard tests use a "calculated" LDL reading, which means they actually measure HDL and Triglycerides, then use a formula to produce an LDL number (you will see LDLc on the report). In general this is worse than useless and so outdated it boggles the mind they are even using it anymore. Also, insist on getting your c-reactive protein checked. It is probably one of the best indicators of risk for heart disease.
Also agree completely with every thing BansheeCat said about omega6 and omega3. omega 6 is pro-inflammatory, and omega 3 is anti-inflammatory (you still need omega 6, you just need to be in balance with omega 3). Eschew foods that are high in omeg6 (think vegetable oil, and grain fed meats). Instead look for grass fed meats (and dairy), and fish.
I would highly recommend you read a book about cholesterol, there are tons of them out there. It is generally touched on in most keto and low carb books, but the dedicated ones go into much more detail. I personally really liked "The Great Cholesterol Myth" by Jonny Bowden. Of course my all time favorite book is "Good Calories Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes which talks a good deal about cholesterol, low carb, and keto (though it's a bit slow and technical at times).
Good luck, and if you have any more specific questions, don't hesitate to ask, there are some extremely smart folks in this group.0 -
MH & OP;Lisa,
<snipped>
I would highly recommend you read a book about cholesterol, there are tons of them out there. It is generally touched on in most keto and low carb books, but the dedicated ones go into much more detail. I personally really liked "The Great Cholesterol Myth" by Jonny Bowden. Of course my all time favorite book is "Good Calories Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes which talks a good deal about cholesterol, low carb, and keto (though it's a bit slow and technical at times).
Good luck, and if you have any more specific questions, don't hesitate to ask, there are some extremely smart folks in this group.
Couldn't agree more with these recommendations.
Gary Taubes stands, arguably, at the pinnacle of the small group of individuals who "took on" the system", bureaucracy, and the immovable triad of gov't, big pharma, and the medical elite and brought the whole issue of nutritional "diet" (and the many ancillary issues it impacts) - to light.
If one could "boil down" to the most profound effect his long history has had I would suggest that it might be "YOU must take matters into your own hands when it comes to your overall health.
His history dates back many years, the first of which he was almost a "lone voice" in the wilderness and criticized, ostracized, and publicly humiliated (unjustifiably) by the "elites".
History has proven him to be not only prescient but "right" on much, if not most, of the points he was making.
His two recent works (Good Cals...., and Why We Get....) are absolute "must reads" for anyone serious about taking the proactive steps necessary to improve their health. It's NOT just about weight loss/control - that's a big part of it of course but LCHF/NK/FA is MUCH more than just weight loss.
His books will give you a very good "foundation" upon which to build as well as an understanding of how we got to where we are - which is extremely important to understand when deciding how you will go forward.
There are, of course, any number of others (both books and individuals) on the subject - some better than others but his books will introduce you to many of them (as will other posters both here and on the Low Carber Daily group).
For some, many of the books, some of which do tend to get a little deep in the weeds with the medical "science" - elicit a "deer in the headlights" response and while I do believe that it's just not possible to understand the "whys" without and occasional venture into the detail, I understand that it's certainly not everyone's "thing".
If you (or others) find yourselves in that predicament, I'd suggest going to youtube and plugging in "Gary Taubes" in the search bar. You will be presented with a litany of choices (including "Why We Get Fat") and while not in as much detail, be able to get "much" of message from the comfort of your own couch.
Do the same for "Phinney and Volek", "Peter Attia", "Dr Eric Westman", "Peter Noakes", and any of the other "heavyweights" you will see cross referenced.
Look especially for presentations they had made to the various scientific community, med schools, and conferences.
Another video which I recommend, especially for those just beginning their "journey" into LCHF-land (because it's a combination of light hearted commentary and real "fact" in an easy to understand without all the "jargon" is this one.
tinyurl.com/p8y4rur
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Thanks so much everyone!0
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Your bloodwork was pre-keto? Or right at the start? Either way, this is great. That gives you a benchmark to see how the change in diet changed your cholesterol.
Personally, my cholesterol dropped about 50 points. I went from around 210 to just below 160. And that's with butter in the coffee and extra fat added to everything. I calculated it as "sticks of butter per week" and found that if all the fat I ate was from butter, it would be over 13 sticks a week. These days my fat goal is even higher (I'm not trying to lose weight so my calories are up) and it would be like 18 sticks of butter a week. I haven't retested my cholesterol, but I'm certainly not worried about it.
If you stick very strictly to keto for 4 months, the next blood tests will provide very specific information about how your body responds to the diet. Not about how mine does, or the average person's does, but how your body responds. And, then you will have some very good information to base your decisions on.
All that said, I also recommend you look into the information about cholesterol and what the research actually supports and doesn't support. It's a number that I don't find especially persuasive as a health indicator.0 -
my doc put me on meds after checking everything....I was very stressed because of my new eating style.I finally found something that worked and was losing weight!!! He said to keep doing what I was doing, it was in my family and wasn't what I ate,and losing weight would only improve my overall health. So I take my meds, and continue my eating plan
Glad you found your way over here. I replied to your post in the other group but it isn't as well-visited as this one. 0 -
In life you have choices; the healthy and not
and sometimes it's tricky to choose what you ought
so if you are wondering what makes you ill
it's easy to know, 'cause everything will
College Humor: Everything will kill you... from A to Z'0 -
Another health issue that can cause wonky (high) cholesterol levels is peri-menopause and/or menopause. Get your status checked. Sometimes, just adding a tiny bit of HRT if your levels are low will balance out cholesterol.
And I agree with the others, if your dr. only checked total cholesterol, find another.0 -
Lisa, it sounds like you started Keto at the same time as your bloodwork, right? So I am guessing whatever the blood work showed, was not a result of the diet. I have no experience with the blood profiles, but know that a lot of the folks who have commented here do and would trust their advice in these matters. Best of luck. I know it's hard to figure out whose advice to follow, but what it all comes down to really is trial and error.0
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So I just started this week on keto. Doing great so far and feeling wonderful. I had some bloodwork done last week and my doctor just called and told me that my total cholesterol is 256! GASP! Then he said "Lower your fat intake, increase your exercise, and lower your calories." He wants to recheck my bloodwork in 4 months. I don't know what to do now! I exercise HARD 4-5 days a week and burn 400-500 calories at each workout. My fat level WAS on the low side and I felt horrible. Now that I've increased it my cravings are just about gone and I have more energy during the day. Now my doctor is telling me to decrease my fat intake?
I don't know what to do. He told me that eating a diet high in fat will further increase my cholesterol levels. I'm so confused and need HELP!
Hi Lisa, I'm not going to get all technical. Go to YouTube and watch the video called, "Fat Head". Its about 1 hour and 50ish minutes long. I think after you watch it, you will not follow your "misinformed" doctor's instructions.
Dan the Man from Michigan
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Lisa, look at this post on this group a few weeks ago, it is inspirational.
Dan the Man from Inspirational Michigan
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I had the same concerns - In April of this year my work did a health screen - this was pre-keto for me. I began ketogenics in June of this year. In August I had my lipids checked again - below are my results - I hope this helps you:
April Triglycerides - 245 August Triglyceride 131
April Cholesterol - 160 August Cholesterol 115.3
April HDL - 42 August HDL - 27.3
April LDL - 202 August LDL - 115.3
April Chol/HDL Ratio - 6.98 Augus Chol/HDL Ratio - 6.2
As you can see - I went from very unhealthy ranges to healthy ranges in just 2 months of eating keto and no medications. This is 100% diet and exercise. (I do crossfit 2x per week).0 -
I had the same concerns - In April of this year my work did a health screen - this was pre-keto for me. I began ketogenics in June of this year. In August I had my lipids checked again - below are my results - I hope this helps you:
April Triglycerides - 245 August Triglyceride 131
April Cholesterol - 160 August Cholesterol 115.3
April HDL - 42 August HDL - 27.3
April LDL - 202 August LDL - 115.3
April Chol/HDL Ratio - 6.98 Augus Chol/HDL Ratio - 6.2
As you can see - I went from very unhealthy ranges to healthy ranges in just 2 months of eating keto and no medications. This is 100% diet and exercise. (I do crossfit 2x per week).
I think you have trigs and cholesterol backwards.
That's also a pretty shocking drop in your HDL. What sorts of fats are you eating? Your HDL should have gone up with keto, or at least stayed the same. It's weird for it to go down. Are you eating enough animal fats and saturated fats?
If you have the Cholesterol/Trigs reversed, your trigs/HDL ratio actually went up from 3.8 to 4.2. You want it closer to 2 (ideally under 2).0 -
I had the same concerns - In April of this year my work did a health screen - this was pre-keto for me. I began ketogenics in June of this year. In August I had my lipids checked again - below are my results - I hope this helps you:
April Triglycerides - 245 August Triglyceride 131
April Cholesterol - 160 August Cholesterol 115.3
April HDL - 42 August HDL - 27.3
April LDL - 202 August LDL - 115.3
April Chol/HDL Ratio - 6.98 Augus Chol/HDL Ratio - 6.2
As you can see - I went from very unhealthy ranges to healthy ranges in just 2 months of eating keto and no medications. This is 100% diet and exercise. (I do crossfit 2x per week).
I think you have trigs and cholesterol backwards.
That's also a pretty shocking drop in your HDL. What sorts of fats are you eating? Your HDL should have gone up with keto, or at least stayed the same. It's weird for it to go down. Are you eating enough animal fats and saturated fats?
If you have the Cholesterol/Trigs reversed, your trigs/HDL ratio actually went up from 3.8 to 4.2. You want it closer to 2 (ideally under 2).
Actually I did have a typo - Triglycerides are correct - the Cholesterol number in April should be 293 and in August 169. (I was reading a line above). Thanks for catching that. The other numbers are correct.
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volfan, I agree with frob. Your HDL is far too low, and your Trigs/HDL ratio is concerning. Event though it's a huge improvement in your Triglycerides (which is great!), the ratio is a more telling number. Have you ever had your c-reactive protein checked? or your LDL particle size?
If you are eating a lot of omega-6 fats (vegetable oils [eg: salad dressing, mayo], grain fed beef, etc) this will have a negative effect on your HDL. Interestingly I had Trig/HDL numbers very close to yours (123/29) when I had it checked about 3 months ago (1 month into keto). Of course my doc wasn't concerned at all because my total cholesterol was only 151). However, I was very concerned based on everything I've read on the subject. Since then I've been really focused on lowering omega-6 fats and increasing my "good" saturated fats (more MCT's, and grass fed beef/dairy). I go back for a blood test this week, I'm hoping to see a significant improvement in my ratio.0 -
volfan, I agree with frob. Your HDL is far too low, and your Trigs/HDL ratio is concerning. Event though it's a huge improvement in your Triglycerides (which is great!), the ratio is a more telling number. Have you ever had your c-reactive protein checked? or your LDL particle size?
If you are eating a lot of omega-6 fats (vegetable oils [eg: salad dressing, mayo], grain fed beef, etc) this will have a negative effect on your HDL. Interestingly I had Trig/HDL numbers very close to yours (123/29) when I had it checked about 3 months ago (1 month into keto). Of course my doc wasn't concerned at all because my total cholesterol was only 151). However, I was very concerned based on everything I've read on the subject. Since then I've been really focused on lowering omega-6 fats and increasing my "good" saturated fats (more MCT's, and grass fed beef/dairy). I go back for a blood test this week, I'm hoping to see a significant improvement in my ratio.
My doctor only asked that I add a fish oil supplement to my regimen each day. Which I have (I used the NutraSea+D) - I will have my lipids checked again in January. (And then again by work for our health fair in April.) I will address your concerns with my doctor - but first I need to do some research to understand exactly what your concerns are. Thanks! 0 -
Vol;volfan, I agree with frob. Your HDL is far too low, and your Trigs/HDL ratio is concerning. <snipped>
I'm hoping to see a significant improvement in my ratio.
My doctor only asked that I add a fish oil supplement to my regimen each day. Which I have (I used the NutraSea+D) - I will have my lipids checked again in January. (And then again by work for our health fair in April.) I will address your concerns with my doctor - but first I need to do some research to understand exactly what your concerns are. Thanks!
Absolutely, positively, do your research (as I would suggest ALL should do) - YOU are your best advocate.
That said, I'm confident that you will find that Frob and MHerb are offering good (and well researched) advice.
My concerns would be more with the doc who "...asked only that I...."
The Omega 6 to 3 ratio really does matter more than most realize (as does the TG/HDL).
Changes in either "number" will (of course) alter the ratio so the "best" advice (all else being equal) would be to lower 6 AND raise 3.
Sadly (as is the case with your doc), the "standard" advice is "Take Fish Oil".
Not bad, or wrong - as far as it goes, BUT,
In many cases it's just not mathematically possible (or healthy) to consume enough fish oil to achieve the desired results.
Yes, increase the O-3's (oil, real fish, etc) BUT at the same time, heed the advice re reducing the 6.
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deansdad101 wrote: »
Vol;volfan, I agree with frob. Your HDL is far too low, and your Trigs/HDL ratio is concerning. <snipped>
I'm hoping to see a significant improvement in my ratio.
My doctor only asked that I add a fish oil supplement to my regimen each day. Which I have (I used the NutraSea+D) - I will have my lipids checked again in January. (And then again by work for our health fair in April.) I will address your concerns with my doctor - but first I need to do some research to understand exactly what your concerns are. Thanks!
Absolutely, positively, do your research (as I would suggest ALL should do) - YOU are your best advocate.
That said, I'm confident that you will find that Frob and MHerb are offering good (and well researched) advice.
My concerns would be more with the doc who "...asked only that I...."
The Omega 6 to 3 ratio really does matter more than most realize (as does the TG/HDL).
Changes in either "number" will (of course) alter the ratio so the "best" advice (all else being equal) would be to lower 6 AND raise 3.
Sadly (as is the case with your doc), the "standard" advice is "Take Fish Oil".
Not bad, or wrong - as far as it goes, BUT,
In many cases it's just not mathematically possible (or healthy) to consume enough fish oil to achieve the desired results.
Yes, increase the O-3's (oil, real fish, etc) BUT at the same time, heed the advice re reducing the 6.
Thank you - I do have a potentially stupid question (as I have not started my research) - but is there a difference in the TG/HDL and the CHOL/HDL ratios? The reason I ask is because my results state the Chol/HDL ratio should be in a range of 2.8 - 6.6. Initially it was 6.98 (high) and the latest test shows it falls (although on the high side) within the acceptable ranges. Now I'm second guessing what I am reading based on this discussion. (And I don't want to take over someone elses thread with this so, my apologies for that.) I thought I was sharing good news and now I'm just confused.0 -
Vol;deansdad101 wrote: »
Vol;volfan, I agree with frob. Your HDL is far too low, and your Trigs/HDL ratio is concerning. <snipped>
I'm hoping to see a significant improvement in my ratio.
My doctor only asked that I add a fish oil supplement to my regimen each day. Which I have (I used the NutraSea+D) - I will have my lipids checked again in January. (And then again by work for our health fair in April.) I will address your concerns with my doctor - but first I need to do some research to understand exactly what your concerns are. Thanks!
Absolutely, positively, do your research (as I would suggest ALL should do) - YOU are your best advocate.
That said, I'm confident that you will find that Frob and MHerb are offering good (and well researched) advice.
My concerns would be more with the doc who "...asked only that I...."
The Omega 6 to 3 ratio really does matter more than most realize (as does the TG/HDL).
Changes in either "number" will (of course) alter the ratio so the "best" advice (all else being equal) would be to lower 6 AND raise 3.
Sadly (as is the case with your doc), the "standard" advice is "Take Fish Oil".
Not bad, or wrong - as far as it goes, BUT,
In many cases it's just not mathematically possible (or healthy) to consume enough fish oil to achieve the desired results.
Yes, increase the O-3's (oil, real fish, etc) BUT at the same time, heed the advice re reducing the 6.
Thank you - I do have a potentially stupid question (as I have not started my research) - but is there a difference in the TG/HDL and the CHOL/HDL ratios? The reason I ask is because my results state the Chol/HDL ratio should be in a range of 2.8 - 6.6. Initially it was 6.98 (high) and the latest test shows it falls (although on the high side) within the acceptable ranges. Now I'm second guessing what I am reading based on this discussion. (And I don't want to take over someone elses thread with this so, my apologies for that.) I thought I was sharing good news and now I'm just confused.
Come on Vol - you know the drill......the only "stupid question" is the one.........
Short (and VERY oversimplified) answer is "yes" - there is a difference (and a big one).
Each of those ratios (and the others) will have totally different "recommended" ranges, high and low limits and import as to how reliable it is as a marker for prediction of (for example) CHD,
Here's a "quickie" that provides an quick overview of the various ratios that's pretty good - just don't pay too much attention to many of the specific numbers they cite as "goals" or "limits" - until you've had a chance to learn why they might not be the most reliable available.
http://tinyurl.com/ny9nlb2
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volfan, I agree with frob. Your HDL is far too low, and your Trigs/HDL ratio is concerning. Event though it's a huge improvement in your Triglycerides (which is great!), the ratio is a more telling number. Have you ever had your c-reactive protein checked? or your LDL particle size?
If you are eating a lot of omega-6 fats (vegetable oils [eg: salad dressing, mayo], grain fed beef, etc) this will have a negative effect on your HDL. Interestingly I had Trig/HDL numbers very close to yours (123/29) when I had it checked about 3 months ago (1 month into keto). Of course my doc wasn't concerned at all because my total cholesterol was only 151). However, I was very concerned based on everything I've read on the subject. Since then I've been really focused on lowering omega-6 fats and increasing my "good" saturated fats (more MCT's, and grass fed beef/dairy). I go back for a blood test this week, I'm hoping to see a significant improvement in my ratio.
I had my bloodwork done in August (8th), pre-keto, but had lost 60lbs or so at that point.
Cholesterol: 172.7 (down from 192)
Triglycerides: 95.36 (down from 106)
HDL: 33.02 (down from 39! damnit)
LDL: 154.72 (up from 132)
The HDL/LDL thing was bothersome, but I am working on that and my Trig/HDL ratio is 2.89 so not ideal but not bad either. I just had a physical Thursday for school and I am hoping to see improvement in my numbers, particularily a drop in LDL and an increase in HDL. I've been trying to make an effort to increase my omega-3's: Grassfed butter, unrefined coconut oil, two fish oil capsules/day (containing 1500mg omega-3 combined), my eggs have omega 3 (and I eat about 12 a week), I only eat red meat about 2 times per week (I cannot afford grassfed beef for a family of 6), while decreasing my omega-6: I use olive oil if I use oil, mayo is a not even every week sort of thing, I use salad dressing no more than twice/week in general etc.
My diet last week (for example) was 74% fat (and of my fat, 38.3% was saturated), 5% carbs (14.6g daily, of which 7 was fiber), and 21% protein. I am hoping if I can keep my numbers like that going forward, I will see continued improvement in my cholesterol panel.
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Ok - I have worn out my poor calculator - but I get it now. The concern is that my HDL/LDL ratio is too high. I need to increase my HDL and lower (even further) my LDL. I will continue to work on that. Keep in mind that these results are after eating keto for 2 months (june/july). The reduction of total cholesterol was pretty good I felt (considering what I started with). I do eat the grassfed butters, coconut oil etc. But I eat a lot of red meat - (steaks, hamburgers, roasts, etc.) Now to educate myself on foods that are in the omega 6 category and omega 3 category and make some changes. WHEW - I swear I learn something new EVERYDAY eating Keto. 0
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Trigs/HDL dropping from 5.8 to 4.8 is a great move in the right direction. So, don't get too frustrated. Over 5 is not good. Under 5 is better. You want to get closer to 2 (or under it).
I would focus on eating good healthy (aka animal) fats and give your body time to heal and adjust. I realize this is the opposite advice from the standard (avoid animal fats and add lots of vegetable oils), but it should raise your HDL while having a negligible effect on your LDL levels.
That said, everyone's body reacts differently. There are links to more information above. I try not to stress too much about numbers.0 -
Vol;Ok - I have worn out my poor calculator - but I get it now. The concern is that my HDL/LDL ratio is too high. I need to increase my HDL and lower (even further) my LDL. I will continue to work on that. Keep in mind that these results are after eating keto for 2 months (june/july). The reduction of total cholesterol was pretty good I felt (considering what I started with). I do eat the grassfed butters, coconut oil etc. But I eat a lot of red meat - (steaks, hamburgers, roasts, etc.) Now to educate myself on foods that are in the omega 6 category and omega 3 category and make some changes. WHEW - I swear I learn something new EVERYDAY eating Keto.
Yes.............................but.
On the Omegas 3&6, yes for sure.
On the H and L dl's though it's not quite that cut and dried.
This is the problem with attempting to give "short and sweet" answers (even if I was any good at short and sweet - which I'm quite sure no one would argue I am) -
-it's just never that simple.
Most of what you (and everyone else) "knows" and has been told (by the medical "professionals" we "trust") is simply wrong - there's just no "nice" way to say it.
The long claimed "absolute, positive causal link" between "bad" cholesterol numbers and "certain death" CVD - just isn't there now, has never been there over the last 40 years or so since it was "declared" to be and there has been NOT ONE clinical study which has stood up to peer review that shows otherwise. (Ask your Dr to show you "the" one s/he's basing their belief on).
The whole HDL/LDL/TG/VLDL issue is FAR from settled science but today it's close to becoming consensus (at least in the research community) that the single LDL number we typically get from a doc office test is basically useless (it's not even a "measured" quantity but rather a calculated figure).
The issue of TWO types of LDL, and total particle numbers and density matters much more than does the single "calculated" number.
There's WAY too much detail to try and explain here and there are numerous sources where one can find the info is as much detail as desired. Some extremely "jargon" laden and others over simplified to the point of uselessness.
This one is a decent "middle ground" - enough detail, yet not so much as to induce sleep.
tinyurl.com/nqcsc4h
Under 10 bucks for kindle version and you can "preview" it by clicking on the image of the book.
A good resource in its own right but also an excellent source of "leads" to others in the field on the "cutting edge".
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Thank you both. I am familiar with Jimmy Moore and his work. I have read Keto Clarity (ok, more skimmed for highlights). I will have my levels checked again soon (after having eaten this way for a longer amount of time - more than 2 months) and see where I am before I make any adjustments. I know I'm doing the right things now, and I was very pleased with my results having been eating poorly for 47 years and then switching to Keto and seeing a huge change (one I had never seen before) almost immediately. I have been Keto Adapated for 6 months as of next Monday. Trying to reverse 47 years is going to take some time. But I am committed. And again, thanks for all of you time and concern.0
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