Dumb dumbbell question

52cardpickup

Hi all, I'm Erin and I'm new here.

I posted this question on the Fitness section of the forums, but I figured I'd ask you knowledgeable people here:

I want to do a progressive lifting program (like SL5x5 or SS) but I don't have a barbell (yet - fingers crossed for Christmas). I DO, however, have dumbbells (yaaaay) and they go up to 60 pounds each.

My dumb question is: is it advisable to modify SL5x5 (or whatever other program) so that I can do it with dumbbells? I'm wary of doing so, as I am conscious of the fact that these programs were designed a certain way for a reason. If it's not advisable to modify, does anyone know of a dumbbell specific progressive program that I can follow until I a) get a rack and barbell, or b) pull time and possibly a car out of my *kitten* and join a gym that has a rack and barbell?

Note: I received a couple of suggestions in my other thread to try P90X or similar programs, but I don't want to do a routine with too much cardio. I am on a medication that heavily suppresses my appetite, and I'm worried about burning calories that I'll find it difficult to eat back.

DopeItUp

There is a thread on this about 5 posts down if you want to check it out: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/902569/barbell-routines-when-you-only-have-dumbbells

52cardpickup

Thank you so much, I have taken a look and it answers the majority of my questions. I feel like in the coming months I will definitely have to join a gym, however, and somehow find time to go. Gotta take a good, hard look at my schedule and see where I can make it work!

PikaKnight

If you've got heavy enough dumbbells or ones that use plates, I'd say definitely. Do you also have a bench?

But instead of SL 5x5, have you thought about Blaha's routine that is similar with the addition of accessories?

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

Here's my suggestions for variations/alternates for the main lifts:

Bench Press - DB Bench Presses. I personally do it with a neutral grip because I've found it is easier on my shoulders. If you don't have a bench, then go with floor presses. If those are uncomfortable, then push ups. And when you are able to do those well, then look into harder variations of them.

Deadlifts - look into DB Romanian Deadlifts (RDL) or Single Leg RDLs if you are starting off. There are other variations, but I've found this one to be easier if new. If you are unsure about form, then start off practicing some Wall RDLs. I know that has helped me a lot.

Overhead Press - Shoulder Presses or Push Presses.

Bent Over Rows - easily substituted with dumbbells. You can also consider doing one-arm versus two if that fits better for you.

***There are inverted rows you can do, but that'll require looking into the set up for them. Some will put a sturdy rod or pipe on two chairs or invest in the TRX suspension system. I use the Iron Bar Gym coupled with the Ultimate Body Press Push Up Rings in order to do these.

Squats - You could attempt to hold the dumbbells to the sides or push them up to your shoulders in a sort of front squat, but both will end up getting uncomfortable as you progress in weight. My suggestion would be to consider substituting these with Goblet Squats, Bulgarian Squats, or/and Skater Squats.

Other variations - Split Squats and Pistol Squats


One of the big things to keep in mind as you do these (aside from form, of course), is that you aren't going to hit "big numbers" like those with barbells AND the progression/noob gains in strength are going to probably end sooner than those with barbells.

Especially when you take into account that dumbbells will probably end up having you focus more on working out muscle imbalances and any core strength issues (which strengthening/fixing these is a really good thing.)

52cardpickup

PikaKnight wrote: »

If you've got heavy enough dumbbells or ones that use plates, I'd say definitely. Do you also have a bench?

But instead of SL 5x5, have you thought about Blaha's routine that is similar with the addition of accessories?

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

Here's my suggestions for variations/alternates for the main lifts:

Bench Press - DB Bench Presses. I personally do it with a neutral grip because I've found it is easier on my shoulders. If you don't have a bench, then go with floor presses. If those are uncomfortable, then push ups. And when you are able to do those well, then look into harder variations of them.

Deadlifts - look into DB Romanian Deadlifts (RDL) or Single Leg RDLs if you are starting off. There are other variations, but I've found this one to be easier if new. If you are unsure about form, then start off practicing some Wall RDLs. I know that has helped me a lot.

Overhead Press - Shoulder Presses or Push Presses.

Bent Over Rows - easily substituted with dumbbells. You can also consider doing one-arm versus two if that fits better for you.

***There are inverted rows you can do, but that'll require looking into the set up for them. Some will put a sturdy rod or pipe on two chairs or invest in the TRX suspension system. I use the Iron Bar Gym coupled with the Ultimate Body Press Push Up Rings in order to do these.

Squats - You could attempt to hold the dumbbells to the sides or push them up to your shoulders in a sort of front squat, but both will end up getting uncomfortable as you progress in weight. My suggestion would be to consider substituting these with Goblet Squats, Bulgarian Squats, or/and Skater Squats.

Other variations - Split Squats and Pistol Squats


One of the big things to keep in mind as you do these (aside from form, of course), is that you aren't going to hit "big numbers" like those with barbells AND the progression/noob gains in strength are going to probably end sooner than those with barbells.

Especially when you take into account that dumbbells will probably end up having you focus more on working out muscle imbalances and any core strength issues (which strengthening/fixing these is a really good thing.)

I have a bench which is quite sturdy, thank god.

Your idea with the push up rings + the pull up bar is genius. I have a bar already, and the rings would be a fabulous addition.

With regard to your suggestions, I love all of them and I will start this program tonight when I get home. I am unhappy that my dumbbells won't give me the gains I'm looking for, but that's just the reality of the situation until I get some heavier weights. I'll do what I can for now!

Are there any drawbacks to continuing to do this program once I max out my dumbbell weights? In the event that I don't manage to get heavier weights by the time I max out, I don't want to be doing myself more harm than good. I don't mind spinning my wheels for a few weeks, as long as I'm not doing something stupid and not realizing it.

PikaKnight

52cardpickup wrote: »

PikaKnight wrote: »

If you've got heavy enough dumbbells or ones that use plates, I'd say definitely. Do you also have a bench?

But instead of SL 5x5, have you thought about Blaha's routine that is similar with the addition of accessories?

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/jason-blaha-ice-cream-fitness-5x5-novice-workout

Here's my suggestions for variations/alternates for the main lifts:

Bench Press - DB Bench Presses. I personally do it with a neutral grip because I've found it is easier on my shoulders. If you don't have a bench, then go with floor presses. If those are uncomfortable, then push ups. And when you are able to do those well, then look into harder variations of them.

Deadlifts - look into DB Romanian Deadlifts (RDL) or Single Leg RDLs if you are starting off. There are other variations, but I've found this one to be easier if new. If you are unsure about form, then start off practicing some Wall RDLs. I know that has helped me a lot.

Overhead Press - Shoulder Presses or Push Presses.

Bent Over Rows - easily substituted with dumbbells. You can also consider doing one-arm versus two if that fits better for you.

***There are inverted rows you can do, but that'll require looking into the set up for them. Some will put a sturdy rod or pipe on two chairs or invest in the TRX suspension system. I use the Iron Bar Gym coupled with the Ultimate Body Press Push Up Rings in order to do these.

Squats - You could attempt to hold the dumbbells to the sides or push them up to your shoulders in a sort of front squat, but both will end up getting uncomfortable as you progress in weight. My suggestion would be to consider substituting these with Goblet Squats, Bulgarian Squats, or/and Skater Squats.

Other variations - Split Squats and Pistol Squats


One of the big things to keep in mind as you do these (aside from form, of course), is that you aren't going to hit "big numbers" like those with barbells AND the progression/noob gains in strength are going to probably end sooner than those with barbells.

Especially when you take into account that dumbbells will probably end up having you focus more on working out muscle imbalances and any core strength issues (which strengthening/fixing these is a really good thing.)

I have a bench which is quite sturdy, thank god.

Your idea with the push up rings + the pull up bar is genius. I have a bar already, and the rings would be a fabulous addition.

With regard to your suggestions, I love all of them and I will start this program tonight when I get home. I am unhappy that my dumbbells won't give me the gains I'm looking for, but that's just the reality of the situation until I get some heavier weights. I'll do what I can for now!

Are there any drawbacks to continuing to do this program once I max out my dumbbell weights? In the event that I don't manage to get heavier weights by the time I max out, I don't want to be doing myself more harm than good. I don't mind spinning my wheels for a few weeks, as long as I'm not doing something stupid and not realizing it.

Well, as someone who is stuck with dumbbells, I'm a bit biased when I say no...there isn't really any drawbacks

But if you don't have dumbbells with plates, Amazon has a set by Cap Barbell for around $40-$50 (sometimes they go on sale). It's a great starter set and the heavier plates for these are relatively cheap as well. Another option would be to look on Craigslist to see if anyone is giving away weights.

If you max out on the weight, then redo the routine with harder variations or something different until you can get heavier plates/dumbbells.

For instance, if you max out the weight on Goblet Squats, switch it up and do Bulgarian Squats. Actually I'd suggest doing both anyways..maybe one on A day and the other on B day. Or change out with any of the other squats I mentioned above.

If you max out on the bench press, then switch it to one-arm bench press...maybe include a superset with push ups. If your bench is adjustable, you could do incline or decline benches too.

Deadlifts - maybe start out with the DB RDLs and then switch to the single leg RDLs....eventually progressing to using only one weight/arm as well.

Max out on Bent Over Rows? Switch to Inverted Rows, which can be started with knees bent/feet flat on the floor. You can progress those to the point where you eventually can elevate your feet so that you are parallel to the floor.

You could also switch these out to chins/pull ups...which can be progressed to one-handed chins/pull ups.

Shoulder Press - that's a harder one to try to find variations for. Most tend to find progression on these hard as it is, but if you do max out the weight, then consider doing one-arm snatches, one arm shoulder presses, or/and pike push ups.

Or maybe consider trying out a total different program while you wait to get heavier weight/plates or access to a gym.

TL;DR: Progressing lifts is still manageable and effective even if you don't have heavier weights as long as you look into harder variations of each exercise or alternatives for the same muscle group and movement :bigsmile:

52cardpickup

PikaKnight wrote: »

Well, as someone who is stuck with dumbbells, I'm a bit biased when I say no...there isn't really any drawbacks

But if you don't have dumbbells with plates, Amazon has a set by Cap Barbell for around $40-$50 (sometimes they go on sale). It's a great starter set and the heavier plates for these are relatively cheap as well. Another option would be to look on Craigslist to see if anyone is giving away weights.

If you max out on the weight, then redo the routine with harder variations or something different until you can get heavier plates/dumbbells.

For instance, if you max out the weight on Goblet Squats, switch it up and do Bulgarian Squats. Actually I'd suggest doing both anyways..maybe one on A day and the other on B day. Or change out with any of the other squats I mentioned above.

If you max out on the bench press, then switch it to one-arm bench press...maybe include a superset with push ups. If your bench is adjustable, you could do incline or decline benches too.

Deadlifts - maybe start out with the DB RDLs and then switch to the single leg RDLs....eventually progressing to using only one weight/arm as well.

Max out on Bent Over Rows? Switch to Inverted Rows, which can be started with knees bent/feet flat on the floor. You can progress those to the point where you eventually can elevate your feet so that you are parallel to the floor.

You could also switch these out to chins/pull ups...which can be progressed to one-handed chins/pull ups.

Shoulder Press - that's a harder one to try to find variations for. Most tend to find progression on these hard as it is, but if you do max out the weight, then consider doing one-arm snatches, one arm shoulder presses, or/and pike push ups.

Or maybe consider trying out a total different program while you wait to get heavier weight/plates or access to a gym.

TL;DR: Progressing lifts is still manageable and effective even if you don't have heavier weights as long as you look into harder variations of each exercise or alternatives for the same muscle group and movement :bigsmile:

Thanks for all the useful information, I really appreciate. This makes me much less anxious about getting to a gym or purchasing a power rack and barbell. I will definitely be looking into heavier plates (my dumbbells are plate based currently, but are limited).

I'm going to start off with the basic ICF5x5 tonight (pre-logged workout A on Fitocracy so I actually do it). I made adjustments to the Cable Crunches (weighted sit-up instead), but otherwise it looks like I'm good to go!

PikaKnight

52cardpickup wrote: »

PikaKnight wrote: »

Well, as someone who is stuck with dumbbells, I'm a bit biased when I say no...there isn't really any drawbacks

But if you don't have dumbbells with plates, Amazon has a set by Cap Barbell for around $40-$50 (sometimes they go on sale). It's a great starter set and the heavier plates for these are relatively cheap as well. Another option would be to look on Craigslist to see if anyone is giving away weights.

If you max out on the weight, then redo the routine with harder variations or something different until you can get heavier plates/dumbbells.

For instance, if you max out the weight on Goblet Squats, switch it up and do Bulgarian Squats. Actually I'd suggest doing both anyways..maybe one on A day and the other on B day. Or change out with any of the other squats I mentioned above.

If you max out on the bench press, then switch it to one-arm bench press...maybe include a superset with push ups. If your bench is adjustable, you could do incline or decline benches too.

Deadlifts - maybe start out with the DB RDLs and then switch to the single leg RDLs....eventually progressing to using only one weight/arm as well.

Max out on Bent Over Rows? Switch to Inverted Rows, which can be started with knees bent/feet flat on the floor. You can progress those to the point where you eventually can elevate your feet so that you are parallel to the floor.

You could also switch these out to chins/pull ups...which can be progressed to one-handed chins/pull ups.

Shoulder Press - that's a harder one to try to find variations for. Most tend to find progression on these hard as it is, but if you do max out the weight, then consider doing one-arm snatches, one arm shoulder presses, or/and pike push ups.

Or maybe consider trying out a total different program while you wait to get heavier weight/plates or access to a gym.

TL;DR: Progressing lifts is still manageable and effective even if you don't have heavier weights as long as you look into harder variations of each exercise or alternatives for the same muscle group and movement :bigsmile:

Thanks for all the useful information, I really appreciate. This makes me much less anxious about getting to a gym or purchasing a power rack and barbell. I will definitely be looking into heavier plates (my dumbbells are plate based currently, but are limited).

I'm going to start off with the basic ICF5x5 tonight (pre-logged workout A on Fitocracy so I actually do it). I made adjustments to the Cable Crunches (weighted sit-up instead), but otherwise it looks like I'm good to go!

I have a Stability Ball and found that it made doing weighted crunches and side crunches a bit more challenging. Also, planks (front, sides, RKCs, and feet/foot elevated ones, or sides with an abduction, and lying hip raises) are another good option if you want to try something other than sit ups for your core.

52cardpickup

I have a stability ball, too! My home gym is bigger and better equipped than I originally thought, I suppose.

PikaKnight

52cardpickup wrote: »

I have a stability ball, too! My home gym is bigger and better equipped than I originally thought, I suppose.

*nod nod*

Oh, and if it matters (if you ever decide to change programs) - you could look into Strong Curves. The book has a lot of alternatives and variations, along with some good info. Or you can go to bodybuilding.com and look up exercises by equipment too.

And with your Stability Ball, you can include exercises like Hyperextensions (if you decide to take a break from a db deadlift session once in awhile), Reverse Hyperextensions, Adductor Squeezes, or Sliding Leg Curls (to work on hamstrings).

:bigsmile:

heybales

Dumbbells that go up to 60 lbs each is too light for you to make progress?

Considering the fact it involves even more support muscles (which is reason for doing barbell over machines is to involve those), I'd be surprised if you are really tapped out using that weight for a decent while.
Perhaps on squat and deadlift. On those 2, merely must keep proper form differences between those lifts.

Other issue is slow progress, when you increase 5 lbs each side at once, rather that 5 lb total weight on barbell. That might mean adjusting rep range to go higher until you can increase weight and then lower the range.

52cardpickup

heybales wrote: »

Dumbbells that go up to 60 lbs each is too light for you to make progress?

Considering the fact it involves even more support muscles (which is reason for doing barbell over machines is to involve those), I'd be surprised if you are really tapped out using that weight for a decent while.
Perhaps on squat and deadlift. On those 2, merely must keep proper form differences between those lifts.

Other issue is slow progress, when you increase 5 lbs each side at once, rather that 5 lb total weight on barbell. That might mean adjusting rep range to go higher until you can increase weight and then lower the range.

That's good to hear. You're right, my fear is that I'll max out early because I'll be adding too much weight too quickly (5lbs to each dumbbell). Would it be worthwhile to look into microweights? The style of dumbbell I have takes barbell plates, so I should just be able to get some.

heybales

52cardpickup wrote: »

That's good to hear. You're right, my fear is that I'll max out early because I'll be adding too much weight too quickly (5lbs to each dumbbell). Would it be worthwhile to look into microweights? The style of dumbbell I have takes barbell plates, so I should just be able to get some.

There's not some magical change if you went from 5 reps to 6 or 7 reps in 5 sets because it was time to increase weight, but 10 lbs total was too much.
Neither would increasing weight finally and dropping to 4 reps.
They are rep ranges for different reasons, stay in the range for strength is still accomplished.

But, those 1.25 lb plates would be good idea too.
Though I know I saw a video on making them out of some other material and just putting them on bar. I think it was magnets, big cheap weak magnets. Strong enough for lifting purposes, but cheap makes them bigger.

52cardpickup

heybales wrote: »

52cardpickup wrote: »

That's good to hear. You're right, my fear is that I'll max out early because I'll be adding too much weight too quickly (5lbs to each dumbbell). Would it be worthwhile to look into microweights? The style of dumbbell I have takes barbell plates, so I should just be able to get some.

There's not some magical change if you went from 5 reps to 6 or 7 reps in 5 sets because it was time to increase weight, but 10 lbs total was too much.
Neither would increasing weight finally and dropping to 4 reps.
They are rep ranges for different reasons, stay in the range for strength is still accomplished.

But, those 1.25 lb plates would be good idea too.
Though I know I saw a video on making them out of some other material and just putting them on bar. I think it was magnets, big cheap weak magnets. Strong enough for lifting purposes, but cheap makes them bigger.

Thanks so much for the suggestion. I'll definitely look into the magnets.

I've decided to switch from ICF to NROL4W, mostly because someone gave me the book as a present. I also like that it's a 6 month structured(ish) program. After NROL4W I'll probably progress to something like ICF, because by that point I'll (hopefully) have access to a proper barbell and rack. I'm planning on starting NROL4W tonight.

Anyone have any thoughts on this change?