The Thyroid Cure / Paleo Diet
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Wow wow wow, thanks @lindsey1979!
I have my semi-annual bloodwork next week and will see what it takes to get more of a detailed diagnosis (Hashimoto's or ???) and/or deeper tests. This month, I see some weight loss some weeks, and that is freakin' unusual and welcome. So I want to figure this out. I will go back and do the math of the weight lost and calorie deficit for each week and start charting that to build more data. Looking ahead six months, I'll either lose ten pounds or have some darn good data
Maybe I can get my doctor on board with getting my hormones and insulin tweaked in just right to lose and maintain weight like a normal person fairly consistently over years. Which is hugely important Right Now, I am on the brink of menopause.0 -
lindsey1979 wrote: »
And, from what I've read on other sites (here and more thyroid sites), my experience isn't terribly exceptional. In fact, it's actually somewhat common with those that have Hashi's -- or at least those that come to such sites looking for guidance about why calorie restriction and their thyroid medication isn't working. So, when people like editorgrrl come here and imply that is ALL that should be necessary because that is what worked for him/her -- essentially disrespecting and disproving others' valid experiences -- it is really infuriating and terribly, terribly unhelpful.
I simply MUST co-sign on this.
First, I must say that I'm jealous that editorgrrl was not only diagnosed fairly early on (from what I can gather from her previous responses on this board), but seems to have an omnipotent endocrinologist who magically was able to give her great treatment THAT WORKS FOR HER straight off the bat. Both of these experiences are very exceptional based on my own personal experience and the other 40+ people I know personally who have Hashimoto's. I know she put in a lot of hard work, but was able to successfully lose weight, and that's really fantastic.
I only wish everyone else could have editorgrrl's experience. Seriously.
Disclaimer: I tried the paleo diet at the suggestion of my doctor. I was RELIGIOUS about it for 5 months and had absolutely no change in symptoms. A close friend who also has Hashi's eats paleo and is absolutely thriving after years and years of no relief from any treatment regimen. I have another friend who does great on Synthroid only. My cousin suffers horribly when her antibodies are high (her bloodwork is otherwise perfect). This disease seems to take an individual course in everyone, and my current doctor says it is very frustrating to treat because of this.
I think it is super-disheartening to see comments like editorgrrl's dismissing and discrediting other people's personal experiences. The "I haven't experienced this, so it's not possible" or "MY ENDOCRINOLOGIST says to eat whatever I want, so any other dietary restrictions or changes are ridiculous" statements, are just downright depressing, in my opinion. I can only think of how horrible I would have felt if MFP had been around 15+ years ago when I was really struggling only to get this kind of feedback when I asked for help.
Point being what works for one person may not do jack *kitten* for someone else. Are you logging food and exercise accurately? That is almost always a good place to start, but it's not the only answer to stalled or nonexistent weight loss. Will Paleo help YOU lose weight? Why not try it and see? Will a different medication or vitamin supplements help you? They might, they might not. Why not try it and see what works *for you*?
Below is all the crap I went through to feel "normal". I would not wish my experience on anyone.
I had to threaten to sue my primary care physician to even get the initial blood test (despite family history, all the textbook symptoms, and a cholesterol level of 367). When he FINALLY agreed to run the blood test my TSH was 60, and my antibodies were so high that the lab stopped counting.
I was put on synthroid and felt even worse than I did before, and continued to gain 1/4 to 1/2 pound a week, despite consistently measuring and logging everything I ate, exercising like a maniac (more than 2 hours a day), and never eating over 1,000 calories TOTAL in any given day, ever.
I was consistently told by each of the 7 different endocrinologists that I saw that it couldn't possibly be my thyroid, that I needed to eat less and exercise more and quit whining. All of my continuing symptoms, including depression, joint pain, dry skin, high cholesterol, crazy blood sugar fluctuations, continuing high cholesterol, and crazy constipation were dismissed, and I was tested for every other fatigue-causing disease on the planet, to no avail.
I was nearly suicidal at that point. I was taking my prescribed medication and still felt like I was slowly dying.
I begged my primary care physician to test my thyroid hormone levels (after reading Mary Shomon's book), and guess what? My Free T3 was less than 1, my Vitamin D levels were non-detect, and I also had vitamin B and iron deficiencies. Even getting my various vitamin and mineral levels up did not help, as my Free T3 was still less than 2, my antibodies were also still high.
A lot of hard work later, I finally found a medication regimen that alleviates a lot of MY symptoms (Armour with a bit of extra T3), and a supplement regimen that works for me. I was able to drop 60 pounds a few years back, but only after my medication changed. I still have to exercise and watch what I eat, and my metabolism is a touch slow, but I'm doing very well now, comparatively speaking. I have some other hashi-related stuff going on (insulin resistance, consistently cold body temperature, etc.) that I'm fighting, but I'm doing all that I can to feel well.
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I am behind lindsey here, when all stars are in a line, all is brilliant, good fortune. I hope it happens for everyone, sooner rather than later.
I become too distressed when I read the simplistic, calories in v calories out, weigh and log all assiduously. Each one of us is like a universe, if one of the planets, or its moons is out of kilter things go wrong. Getting to the bottom of it all takes time and open minds on the part of patient and medics. Too many of us are shown the door time and time again.
There is no one simple answer to the 300 or more overlapping, interrelated symptoms of thyroid problems. Conditions like, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, allergies, IBS, conception, menstrual cycles and so many more can be influenced by that damned thyroid.
I used to think a comprehensive interactive computer system which asks the patients symptoms channelling the answers towards a group of possible diagnoses for a doctor were a waste of time but it the use of something like this could save time especially if it suggested possible blood or other tests for verification, it could even have a hypochondriac slot too. Had a dear friend had access to something like this she would not have died of ovarian cancer while her doctor treated over the phone for IBS.
Please pardon my rant but our body's systems are complicated and there is so much more we have forgotten or not learned yet and who said its the unknown unknowns are the most dangerous?
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tamaradwyer wrote: »Wow wow wow, thanks @lindsey1979!
I have my semi-annual bloodwork next week and will see what it takes to get more of a detailed diagnosis (Hashimoto's or ???) and/or deeper tests. This month, I see some weight loss some weeks, and that is freakin' unusual and welcome. So I want to figure this out. I will go back and do the math of the weight lost and calorie deficit for each week and start charting that to build more data. Looking ahead six months, I'll either lose ten pounds or have some darn good data
Maybe I can get my doctor on board with getting my hormones and insulin tweaked in just right to lose and maintain weight like a normal person fairly consistently over years. Which is hugely important Right Now, I am on the brink of menopause.
Thank you, KCVance and Fuzzipeg -- I really truly do believe what editorgrrl has done here in regard to her responses is very dangerous. And it's truly disheartening from someone that has Hashi's. It makes me extremely skeptical of her entire story personally.
Tamara -- I'm sure these aren't all the tests, but the ones I remember were these:
Thyroid -- TSH, Free T3, Free T4, and antibodies (TPO and Tg)
Sugar/Insulin Resistance -- Fasting Glucose and A1C
Adrenals - DHEA and cortisol (maybe others)
Vitamin/Minerals -- Vitamin D, Magnesium, Iron (a couple different versions -- for free iron and iron stores), Iodine and a few others
Liver -- some sort of liver enzyme tests, but I don't remember what they were off the top of my head
"Standard" Panels -- like CBC, lipid panel, etc.
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Fuzzipeg you are singing my song only went through the same about 35 years ago. I could have written every word of your comment. When you said you felt you were slowly dying I almost cried as it was the same for me and then I just wanted to die. Finally a friend doctor put my on Armour and I did pretty well until ran out of insurance and then thyroid meds of course in about 2005 or 6. From then on it was a slow constain weight gain and I physically started slipping back.
Fast forward to now or last August when I finally got on medicare at 65 and starting with a new PCP. His train of thought is everything revolves about the one TSH number. He refuses to run any other tests and when I finally got him to run an extra one that is ALL he ran and the rest was lost and he would not run them again and once again went on TSH. Sigh. I did convince him to put me on NP Thyroid . From what I understand it is very close to the old Armour I did so well on before they took it off the market. It is back on the market now but I hear it is not as good as it used to be.
So far I am having fairly good results from the NP Thyroid. Still trying to adjust dose. I am feeling mostly OK but I think some of that is my LCHF WOE basically Atkins. But then I just heard a pod cast last night Atkins low carb is not good for us Thyroid folks. YIKES It is the only way I can even stand a chance of losing a pound or two or the nearly 60 now I still need to lose. I ordered the gals book and it is supposed to come in March so I will see what else she says to do. All tied into adrenals and stress which I have a full load of.
Very glad I found this board. Sorry to hijack into this other thread. I do feel she is very lucky to do so well with not having to go through the hell most of us go through just to feel good.
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The thing with Hashimotos is it doesn't just effect your thyroid, it makes you much more prone to inflammation. For many people removing the inflammation triggers in the diet helps a lot. No, you won't grow back your thyroid, but you will feel better and your body will work better.0
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Seems so odd I have been religious on the Atkins WOE and in the last couple of weeks the old psoriasis sausage fingers are starting back. Darn. I do go to my PCP on Wednesday. Hands and feet had bee clear of psoriasis except for the insane itch since the end of August.0
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shadesofidaho wrote: »I am feeling mostly OK but I think some of that is my LCHF WOE basically Atkins. But then I just heard a pod cast last night Atkins low carb is not good for us Thyroid folks. YIKES It is the only way I can even stand a chance of losing a pound or two...
Do what works for you, Chris. There is no one right answer for us Thyroid folks, we each have specific chemistry at play.
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Thanks @ tamaradwyer. I am sticking with the Atkins. finally down another pound this morning from my bounce up of three the last time I was this low. The Atkins WOE and low thyroid both tend to cause constipation. Now I have that pretty well regulated by taking the fiber powder and not having to use a laxative my weight has started going back down. Slowly but it is a constant downward trend. I will see if I can find the video I just watched about the thyroid and resetting your metabolism. I still have time to cancel the order. right now I need to go check my chart online I think my thyroid test numbers just came in.0
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Fantastic posts @kcvance and @lindsey1979, thank you so much.0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »I haven't read the book, but I wonder how it could help someone like me with Hashimoto's. Since my situation is an auto-immune disease, it would seem that the only answer for a 'cure' is to somehow replace the cells that have been killed.
Nothing can regenerate dead thyroid cells. You must take hormone replacement—most likely for the rest of your life.
Everyone here gives advice based on their personal experience. And everyone's different, so it will take trial & error to find what works for you.
But according to the Mayo Clinic:Although claims about hypothyroidism diets abound, there's no evidence that eating or avoiding certain foods will improve thyroid function in people with hypothyroidism.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hypothyroidism/expert-answers/hypothyroidism-diet/faq-200585540 -
editorgrrl wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »I haven't read the book, but I wonder how it could help someone like me with Hashimoto's. Since my situation is an auto-immune disease, it would seem that the only answer for a 'cure' is to somehow replace the cells that have been killed.
Nothing can regenerate dead thyroid cells. You must take hormone replacement—most likely for the rest of your life.
Everyone here gives advice based on their personal experience. And everyone's different, so it will take trial & error to find what works for you.
But according to the Mayo Clinic:Although claims about hypothyroidism diets abound, there's no evidence that eating or avoiding certain foods will improve thyroid function in people with hypothyroidism.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hypothyroidism/expert-answers/hypothyroidism-diet/faq-20058554
I understand how auto-immune diseases work. My suggestion as to a 'cure' is to replace the killed cells somehow. I also have type 1 diabetes, which is an auto-immune disease as well. There is currently research being conducted to replace pancreatic beta cells with encapsulated beta cells. The encapsulation is designed in such a way to prevent entry of immune anti-bodies, but to allow insulin and amylin to be released - a "one-way street" in a sense. If this is successful, then perhaps the encapsulation could be applied to cells designed to be replacements for thyroid cells.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »editorgrrl wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »I haven't read the book, but I wonder how it could help someone like me with Hashimoto's. Since my situation is an auto-immune disease, it would seem that the only answer for a 'cure' is to somehow replace the cells that have been killed.
Nothing can regenerate dead thyroid cells. You must take hormone replacement—most likely for the rest of your life.
Everyone here gives advice based on their personal experience. And everyone's different, so it will take trial & error to find what works for you.
But according to the Mayo Clinic:Although claims about hypothyroidism diets abound, there's no evidence that eating or avoiding certain foods will improve thyroid function in people with hypothyroidism.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hypothyroidism/expert-answers/hypothyroidism-diet/faq-20058554
I understand how auto-immune diseases work. My suggestion as to a 'cure' is to replace the killed cells somehow. I also have type 1 diabetes, which is an auto-immune disease as well. There is currently research being conducted to replace pancreatic beta cells with encapsulated beta cells. The encapsulation is designed in such a way to prevent entry of immune anti-bodies, but to allow insulin and amylin to be released - a "one-way street" in a sense. If this is successful, then perhaps the encapsulation could be applied to cells designed to be replacements for thyroid cells.
There has been research into this, but it's not approved for/effective in humans yet. There was some research back in 2012 or so showing positive results on mice -- that they were able to regenerate the thyroid in mice -- but I don't think that it has been developed in humans yet.
Here's one article about it: http://www.nature.com/news/thyroid-is-latest-success-in-regenerative-medicine-1.11574
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A very interesting link, Lindsey. How do you find all your information? I look but have never come up with anything as interesting as this. Thank you0
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Appreciate everyone sharing good information here - It is clear that there is not a food prescription for all. Do what works for you, rest, test, ask, learn, advocate for yourself. Be well!0
