Liquor and... side effects...
rprussell2004
Posts: 870 Member
Okay, so I'm well aware of the reported higher sensitivity to alcohol while on keto... (btw I am on keto, not just LC)
I seem to be genetically "blessed" to be able to avoid the vicious hangovers, also reported.
HOWEVER... (And here we are entering TMI territory, perhaps.)
After an evening with even just a couple of drinks, I end up spending 4-5 days with nasty diarrhea.
This is having *ahem* experimented, once per weekend for the past month, with variations including...
There is associated weight gain and muddle-headedness. It almost feels like I'm having to go through keto flu again.
Any thoughts or corroboration on this? I'm seriously pausing on friday evenings out with the guys after work, and thinking to myself, "Is this gonna be worth a week on the toilet??"
I hate being mature
I seem to be genetically "blessed" to be able to avoid the vicious hangovers, also reported.
HOWEVER... (And here we are entering TMI territory, perhaps.)
After an evening with even just a couple of drinks, I end up spending 4-5 days with nasty diarrhea.
This is having *ahem* experimented, once per weekend for the past month, with variations including...
- LC margaritas
- Bourbon-and-coke-zero
- Rum-and-coke-zero
There is associated weight gain and muddle-headedness. It almost feels like I'm having to go through keto flu again.
Any thoughts or corroboration on this? I'm seriously pausing on friday evenings out with the guys after work, and thinking to myself, "Is this gonna be worth a week on the toilet??"
I hate being mature
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Replies
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Well, glad to know there is 1 drinking side effect i don't have but... i have learned to stop at ONE drink. No. Matter. What.
It's downright perplexing why this happens on keto. As a girl i try to never drink on an empty stomach or when i am thirsty because that will lead to trouble anyways. But on keto i need to be done after 1 glass of wine because while i feel fine in the moment i will not in about an hour. It's just not fair, but i am not sure it's worth it either. i guess i am just commiserating and i have no good advice
Honestly most of the time i just skip it because it is not worth it. 0 -
I have to drink as much as I always have to get to my desired level of buzzedness. Vodka gives me a fit. If I stay hydrated, then I can avoid the headache, but it's like I'm in a blurry fog all day. And my stomach is pissed. Whiskey is my fave and is nicer to me. I still get the fuzz though. I thought I stayed in Keto fine, but now I think all my stupid "phantom hunger" might be due to an ulcer. And the calories are slowing my losses. So I'm abstaining until the New Year, which is also my b-day, to see if things clear up. Hindsight is sending me clues. I just didn't want to hear them.
I love my weekly drinking and movies with my hubs, but I'm thinking maybe it is time to cool it for a bit. 12oz of vodka over 2 evenings is hurting me I think. I really wish I were a cheap drinker.
Alcohol can knock some people out of ketosis. I don't have any of the testing things so I do not know if it kicks me out. But that might explain my issues lately. Not as severe as yours but unpleasant nonetheless. Time will tell me.
Man, that sucks that it is kicking your butt like that. I would question it's worth as well if my stomach were doing that to me for a week after.
Anyone else have comments?
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Since you asked.....<bg>baconslave wrote: »I have to drink as much as I always have to get to my desired level of buzzedness.
<snipped>
Alcohol can knock some people out of ketosis. I don't have any of the testing things so I do not know if it kicks me out. But that might explain my issues lately. Not as severe as yours but unpleasant nonetheless. Time will tell me.
Man, that sucks that it is kicking your butt like that. I would question it's worth as well if my stomach were doing that to me for a week after.
Anyone else have comments?
"....as much as I always have"
Me too!!!
I'm the furthest thing in the world from a wine "connoisseur" (although I do look, almost exclusively, for specific vintage dates (May?, October?). My vintners of choice ship in gallon bottles or 5 liter boxes. On very "special" occasions I'll splurge for a "fine" (italian or french) selection like "Salais".
It's easy to find, big display right in front of the door with the sign (in English) - SALE!
So I'll apologize in advance to the cork and "bouquet" sniffers who will (rightly) be outraged but what works for me is 4-6 glasses a day of my "secret", "private stock", vintage.
Starts with a full-bodied red (chianti, merlot, etc), fresh from the box.
Add 1oz (or a full "shot" if you're feeling "frisky") to fine crystal wine glass (dollar store).
Top with lemon water > indulge!
Depending on the ratio, actual "wine" = 1 (6oz) "glass" for 4-6.
Yes it is (of course) "watered down" and a "disgrace" in the minds of many BUT, keeps my hands busy, actually tastes pretty good, satisfies my "need" for wine, AND a "glass" of wine a day (red) has proven health benefits. On top of it all, while I'm not a true "believer" in the 55 gals/day of water, mantra - it can't hurt from the "hydration" POV.
Indeed there are those for whom alcohol (in any form) will interfere with not only weight loss but NK in general, AND the health risks of "excessive" consumption (some would say "any" consumption) are legendary, I'm willing to accept the "risk/reward" trade off.
On average, I've been at 6-8ozs/day of actual "wine" for months.
Blood readings this a.m. (typical and usually at their "worst" first thing a.m.)
Fasting glucose 101
BHOB ketone level 2.2
BP 116/75
Pulse 76
Average weight reduction over last 6 months = 0.5#/week
I am "still" on BP meds although I've cut them 50% (take a pill every other day).
Doc prescribed to deal with DOT physical requirements where 160 is a "knockout punch" for my CDL license.
Typical "in office" measurements were frequently in 200/100 neighborhood but at least "some" of that was/is attributable to "white coat" syndrome.
There is NO correlation in my readings between the days I take a pill (vs those on which I do not) that I can see, although that "might" be the result of med "residue" which remains between "fixes".
I have a (6 mo.) appointment with the cardio coming up soon and am anxious to see his reaction to the numbers. I fully expect him to at least reduce the amount, if not eliminate them all together, based on my "daily" measurements.
I've not made him aware of the fact that I "cut" to 1/2 prescribed dose (no lectures, please), and will wait until after his diagnosis prior to informing him. I "might" just do an N=1 for a week or two before the app't cutting them altogether (but paying VERY close attention to the readings).
For ME (at least) I have seen NO negative effects of my wine "habit" on weight loss, ketone levels, or BP.
That said, WITHOUT "accurate" (and frequent) BLOOD testing (at home), I would have neither the confidence, nor the ability, to make an "informed" decision on MY health - I'd just be be GUESSING.
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deansdad101 wrote: »
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I've not made him aware of the fact that I "cut" to 1/2 prescribed dose (no lectures, please)...
My husband has been lower carb by default thanks to me, and he has accidentally lost 20lbs. And has also stopped taking half his BP med dose. He was getting a few low readings, so he just cut his dose. Not approved by an over-priced visit to an indifferent MD. And is doing just fine, BP-wise, and consequently we are saving on his med costs. Win/win.
So no judgment here on that or the wine. I've been drinking bottom-shelf vodka...blech...because my man is a cheap-skate. I am getting some upper-shelf bourbon for my birthday celebration or he will not be able to live with me, by the bacon-gods!!!0 -
There's nothing wrong with boxed wines!0
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BS;baconslave wrote: »deansdad101 wrote: »
...
I've not made him aware of the fact that I "cut" to 1/2 prescribed dose (no lectures, please)...
My husband has been lower carb by default thanks to me, and he has accidentally lost 20lbs. And has also stopped taking half his BP med dose. He was getting a few low readings, so he just cut his dose. Not approved by an over-priced visit to an indifferent MD. And is doing just fine, BP-wise, and consequently we are saving on his med costs. Win/win.
So no judgment here on that or the wine. I've been drinking bottom-shelf vodka...blech...because my man is a cheap-skate. I am getting some upper-shelf bourbon for my birthday celebration or he will not be able to live with me, by the bacon-gods!!!
"my man is a cheapskate...."
I MUCH prefer the term "frugal" - thank you very much<VBG>
And yes "win/win" - not only on the $ score but, more importantly on the "our health" and taking matters into the hands of those that care the most - scores.
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SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »There's nothing wrong with boxed wines!
All depends on the vintage date.
Some are better than others.
My personal favorite is May.
(although this late in the year a "fine" September/October works too)
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deansdad101 wrote: »
SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »There's nothing wrong with boxed wines!
All depends on the vintage date.
Some are better than others.
My personal favorite is May.
(although this late in the year a "fine" September/October works too)
Why those months?0 -
SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »deansdad101 wrote: »
SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »There's nothing wrong with boxed wines!
All depends on the vintage date.
Some are better than others.
My personal favorite is May.
(although this late in the year a "fine" September/October works too)
Why those months?
It's a joke (at least it was intended as such).
Aficionados debate for years whether the 1945 Château Mouton-Rothschild or the
1961 Château Latour (or whatever) is "THE" best wine ever.
Given that we don't have $2000 a bottle to try it for ourselves and offer an opinion - we'll stick to the "may or october" boxes. (or maybe Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr.........) <G>0 -
deansdad101 wrote: »
SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »deansdad101 wrote: »
SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »There's nothing wrong with boxed wines!
All depends on the vintage date.
Some are better than others.
My personal favorite is May.
(although this late in the year a "fine" September/October works too)
Why those months?
It's a joke (at least it was intended as such).
Aficionados debate for years whether the 1945 Château Mouton-Rothschild or the
1961 Château Latour (or whatever) is "THE" best wine ever.
Given that we don't have $2000 a bottle to try it for ourselves and offer an opinion - we'll stick to the "may or october" boxes. (or maybe Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr.........) <G>
ok, whew! LOL. I was wondering if you were a tad goofy.
I *do* think boxed wines are great. In part because my community recycling won't pick up glass.0 -
SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »deansdad101 wrote: »
SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »deansdad101 wrote: »
SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »There's nothing wrong with boxed wines!
All depends on the vintage date.
Some are better than others.
My personal favorite is May.
(although this late in the year a "fine" September/October works too)
Why those months?
It's a joke (at least it was intended as such).
Aficionados debate for years whether the 1945 Château Mouton-Rothschild or the
1961 Château Latour (or whatever) is "THE" best wine ever.
Given that we don't have $2000 a bottle to try it for ourselves and offer an opinion - we'll stick to the "may or october" boxes. (or maybe Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr.........) <G>
ok, whew! LOL. I was wondering if you were a tad goofy.
I *do* think boxed wines are great. In part because my community recycling won't pick up glass.
Faulty logic.
That "A" > "B" does NOT mean that "B" > "A"
(because I "do" drink wine from a box does NOT mean I'm NOT "a tad goofy")
Correlation does NOT = Causation <VBG>
Perhaps more importantly,
Why on earth would your community recycling NOT pick up glass?
(sounds to me like a "customer service" Dept that doesn't answer the phone)
Happy T-Day!!!!
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According to them? It's not safe for their workers to recycle glass. We, the consumers have to schlep it to community sites and do it ourselves. Apparently that's safer for their workers lol.deansdad101 wrote: »
SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »deansdad101 wrote: »
SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »deansdad101 wrote: »
SS;Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »There's nothing wrong with boxed wines!
All depends on the vintage date.
Some are better than others.
My personal favorite is May.
(although this late in the year a "fine" September/October works too)
Why those months?
It's a joke (at least it was intended as such).
Aficionados debate for years whether the 1945 Château Mouton-Rothschild or the
1961 Château Latour (or whatever) is "THE" best wine ever.
Given that we don't have $2000 a bottle to try it for ourselves and offer an opinion - we'll stick to the "may or october" boxes. (or maybe Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr.........) <G>
ok, whew! LOL. I was wondering if you were a tad goofy.
I *do* think boxed wines are great. In part because my community recycling won't pick up glass.
Faulty logic.
That "A" > "B" does NOT mean that "B" > "A"
(because I "do" drink wine from a box does NOT mean I'm NOT "a tad goofy")
Correlation does NOT = Causation <VBG>
Perhaps more importantly,
Why on earth would your community recycling NOT pick up glass?
(sounds to me like a "customer service" Dept that doesn't answer the phone)
Happy T-Day!!!!
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I have become a real lightweight when it comes to booze since going LCHF... but I still have not been quite able to give up my nightly glass (or two) of red.
I find I feel the effects more, as though I had drunk the whole bottle. Usually I feel ok the next day, but I wonder about the occasionally hot flash that hits in the morning...
That said, I went off the diet on Sunday last week, had two pints of Guinness stout, and they hardly did more than add a glow. Hmm. Maybe the extra carbs had something to do with that?
Our choice of red wine (merlot, pinot noir, Cabernet sauvignon) comes in $4 bottles imported from Chile -- can't beat that!
cheers, salut, and kumpai to a great weekend, everyone.0 -
baconslave wrote: »deansdad101 wrote: »
...
I've not made him aware of the fact that I "cut" to 1/2 prescribed dose (no lectures, please)...
My husband has been lower carb by default thanks to me, and he has accidentally lost 20lbs. And has also stopped taking half his BP med dose. He was getting a few low readings, so he just cut his dose. Not approved by an over-priced visit to an indifferent MD. And is doing just fine, BP-wise, and consequently we are saving on his med costs. Win/win.
I'm not lecturing, I'm genuinely concerned that your BP medicine may not be working to your best advantage taking it every other day. Even at half the dose, it is usually better to take them everyday because of short "half-lives" of those meds (typically). I'm a fan of cutting doses to the smallest effective amounts, and hopefully come time for your visit you will be removed entirely.
However, since you cut the dosage in half on your own, I'd take them everyday at the same time, whatever that works out to.....say you were originally on 50 mg each day (350 mg/week), and now you only take 50 mg every other day (200 mg/week on one week, then 150 mg the following week, and repeat), that is presumably somewhere between 150-200 mg/week? If you use a pill splitter (assuming your drug is not extended release type.. don't split those), your dosage would be 25 mg/day, or 175 mg/week, which is exactly half and at least you'd be taking it every day.
I understand you said your readings don't seem to be higher and then lower, but it may depend on when you are taking the reading vs. taking the meds. For instance, if you are taking your BP reading first thing in the morning before you take your med, then you may not be getting an accurate reading. My guess is your BP is actually even lower than your awakening reading an hour or two after taking your med, and may stay the same or go higher after the normal time of dosage on the days you don't take it.
You can check the half-life of the med in the prescribing information or call the pharmacist and ask (usually quicker).
This is all just food for thought, and not meant to be medical advice. You may have a cardiologist that is level headed, and they won't care so much that you dropped the meds yourself. Or, you may have one that gets really upset...or the dreaded apathetic one. At any rate, chances are if you don't fess up the dr. will assume that the meds are working really well, when in fact, you may not even need them anymore. No reason to take a med you don't need. Also, any weight lost (new body weight) can affect dosage requirements and make them lower.
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SLJ:sljohnson1207 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »deansdad101 wrote: »
...
I've not made him aware of the fact that I "cut" to 1/2 prescribed dose (no lectures, please)...
My husband has been lower carb by default thanks to me, and he has accidentally lost 20lbs. And has also stopped taking half his BP med dose. He was getting a few low readings, so he just cut his dose. Not approved by an over-priced visit to an indifferent MD. And is doing just fine, BP-wise, and consequently we are saving on his med costs. Win/win.
I'm not lecturing, I'm genuinely concerned that your BP medicine may not be working to your best advantage taking it every other day. Even at half the dose, it is usually better to take them everyday because of short "half-lives" of those meds (typically). I'm a fan of cutting doses to the smallest effective amounts, and hopefully come time for your visit you will be removed entirely.
<snipped>
This is all just food for thought, and not meant to be medical advice. You may have a cardiologist that is level headed, and they won't care so much that you dropped the meds yourself. Or, you may have one that gets really upset...or the dreaded apathetic one. At any rate, chances are if you don't fess up the dr. will assume that the meds are working really well, when in fact, you may not even need them anymore. No reason to take a med you don't need. Also, any weight lost (new body weight) can affect dosage requirements and make them lower.
I've always heard (and believed) the exact same thing - and it makes "perfect" sense (the half-life argument).
Being the eternal contrarian I am though (and because I'm too lazy to cut the pills in half <g>), I too have been reducing my prescribed dosage by half, taking a pill every other day (without the prior consent of my doc).
Funny thing (as in funny I can't explain it, not funny "ha-ha"), my "best" (lowest) readings have been coming on the morning of the day AFTER I "skipped" the pill.
I'm pretty good about repetition as far as time of day and fasting state goes and measure first thing every a.m. before eating or even my first cup of coffee so those variables are eliminated.
My doc is pretty "cool" (or he's just given up on challenging my eccentricities), and I'm guessing he'll be pleased with my results (and probably cut the dose and recommend that I go back to 1 a day) but I'm most interested is his explanation as to why (at least in my case) the "half-life" thing doesn't appear to apply.
My "average" weight loss rate has slowed considerably in the last month or so as I'm closing in on goal so I "think" that the majority of the weight loss benefit on BP is probably behind me and indeed my readings had pretty much "leveled off" even prior to reducing the dose.
What came as the biggest surprise (in a positive way) was that when I cut the dose in half (every other day), the readings remained basically unchanged (also makes no "sense").
I've double checked the meter and been record keeping for over a month now (on every other day).
NOT questioning your reasoning or facts, indeed I would have said the exact same thing (but not as eloquently), and certainly there "might" be a reasonable explanation for why my personal "results" seem to question what "should be".
My "guess" (and it truly is a WAG) is that while the "half-life" of the chemical IS a "real" thing (I think there's little doubt that's true), there is still some sort of "residual" effect going on in the bloodstream or perhaps cells that "averages out" the total dose and "carries over" the skipped day (maybe??).
As much as anything else that's the reason I'm anxiously awaiting the doc's response.
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deansdad101 wrote: »
SLJ:sljohnson1207 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »deansdad101 wrote: »
...
I've not made him aware of the fact that I "cut" to 1/2 prescribed dose (no lectures, please)...
My husband has been lower carb by default thanks to me, and he has accidentally lost 20lbs. And has also stopped taking half his BP med dose. He was getting a few low readings, so he just cut his dose. Not approved by an over-priced visit to an indifferent MD. And is doing just fine, BP-wise, and consequently we are saving on his med costs. Win/win.
I'm not lecturing, I'm genuinely concerned that your BP medicine may not be working to your best advantage taking it every other day. Even at half the dose, it is usually better to take them everyday because of short "half-lives" of those meds (typically). I'm a fan of cutting doses to the smallest effective amounts, and hopefully come time for your visit you will be removed entirely.
<snipped>
This is all just food for thought, and not meant to be medical advice. You may have a cardiologist that is level headed, and they won't care so much that you dropped the meds yourself. Or, you may have one that gets really upset...or the dreaded apathetic one. At any rate, chances are if you don't fess up the dr. will assume that the meds are working really well, when in fact, you may not even need them anymore. No reason to take a med you don't need. Also, any weight lost (new body weight) can affect dosage requirements and make them lower.
I've always heard (and believed) the exact same thing - and it makes "perfect" sense (the half-life argument).
Being the eternal contrarian I am though (and because I'm too lazy to cut the pills in half <g>), I too have been reducing my prescribed dosage by half, taking a pill every other day (without the prior consent of my doc).
Funny thing (as in funny I can't explain it, not funny "ha-ha"), my "best" (lowest) readings have been coming on the morning of the day AFTER I "skipped" the pill.
I'm pretty good about repetition as far as time of day and fasting state goes and measure first thing every a.m. before eating or even my first cup of coffee so those variables are eliminated.
My doc is pretty "cool" (or he's just given up on challenging my eccentricities), and I'm guessing he'll be pleased with my results (and probably cut the dose and recommend that I go back to 1 a day) but I'm most interested is his explanation as to why (at least in my case) the "half-life" thing doesn't appear to apply.
My "average" weight loss rate has slowed considerably in the last month or so as I'm closing in on goal so I "think" that the majority of the weight loss benefit on BP is probably behind me and indeed my readings had pretty much "leveled off" even prior to reducing the dose.
What came as the biggest surprise (in a positive way) was that when I cut the dose in half (every other day), the readings remained basically unchanged (also makes no "sense").
I've double checked the meter and been record keeping for over a month now (on every other day).
NOT questioning your reasoning or facts, indeed I would have said the exact same thing (but not as eloquently), and certainly there "might" be a reasonable explanation for why my personal "results" seem to question what "should be".
My "guess" (and it truly is a WAG) is that while the "half-life" of the chemical IS a "real" thing (I think there's little doubt that's true), there is still some sort of "residual" effect going on in the bloodstream or perhaps cells that "averages out" the total dose and "carries over" the skipped day (maybe??).
As much as anything else that's the reason I'm anxiously awaiting the doc's response.
I totally get that, and I'd actually suspect that for one thing, you don't need that med anymore, and also that you've taken if for some time, and it could be one that accumulates in your system over time. I believe it is the ones with longer half-lives that cause that effect the most, and since there are innumerable HBP meds, I couldn't possibly speculate if that is the cause.
I, too, find it interesting that your readings are no different. I suspect that if you took it every 3rd day, you may start to see some differing data.
Oh, also...some folks don't process things as quickly as others, and also some other meds (if you are taking any) may affect the absorption or clearing rate of your HBP med. Even some foods can do that. I do believe grapefruit is contraindicated with most Beta Blockers due to this reason.
I do hope you get a clean bill of health at the cardiologist office. That is the ultimate goal, isn't it?
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This discussion has been closed.