I am stunned at how low my BMR is..........more

ladybug77707

I went and had the MEDGEM test done by a registered dietitian. At rest, I am 960.......with added daily activity (which I think is the same as TEE mentioned on this site??) it is another 190 for a total of 1150 per day with NO exercise. I am 5 ' 6", 130 and 48 years old. Does this seem really, really low? She said the 'norm' for someone my size and age should be 1240 at rest with another 250 from daily activity. This just seems sooo low.

My challenge has been that in the last twelve months I have gained 6 pounds (used to weigh 124-125 for my entire adult life) with no change in activity level. I KNOW I used to eat more than 1200 calories, but am finding now to stay at 130 I have to keep it under 1200.

Any ideas why this has happened AND anyone have input on what seems like a really low level????

Firefly0606

Just plugging your stats into this calculator: http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

Gives a BMR or 1297 calories, TDEE of 1556 calories. That is with entering your activity level as "desk job". You would have to eat 1556 calories per day to maintain your current weight. Based on the goal you select in step 6 of the calculator above, it will tell you how many calories you have to eat.

Play on the calculator in the above link. You state that you have to keep your calories under 1200 to maintain your weight of 130- based on EM2WL principles, 1200 is not enough for you. Up your activity level, and you will also need to up those calories even more.

heybales

You probably lost a decent amount of muscle mass through diets.
That will lower your metabolism.

And beyond that, eating too low probably suppressed your daily burn below what it could be.

Then again, that RMR may be right on correct for your amount of muscle mass, if you had a really good bodyfat test done.

Oh, you did not have BMR test done, you had RMR test. RMR is actually higher than BMR by 150-250 calories, so your BMR is actually even lower.

Are you actually sedentary with daily activity though? 45 hr desk job/commute with no kids or pets making you move when you get home, no long shopping on weekends or yard care?
That would be the activity level they gave you for TDEE estimate.

So without knowing a good estimate of your BF%, you don't know if you should base a diet on those numbers or not.

If it is correct RMR for BF%, then eating more than needed will only add fat, unless doing a great weight lifting routine to add muscle along with the added fat.

If it is lower RMR for BF%, you do NOT want to be eating even lower to a suppressed system, and especially dieting and forcing it potentially even slower.

Do you have the means of getting a Bodpod test to answer that question?
The handheld unit given to you is not accurate enough, neither is the scale or skinfolds. Though a bunch of those tests done right may give an average that indicates if close enough.

But you can have recovery in both cases.
Gaining muscle will be a very long hard road though, so recommend don't lose anymore by doing this wrong, err on the side of being over.
Increasing daily burn and metabolism can be improved too.

Here's one case study with stat's similar to you. In this case her weight gain was probably disappointed splurges through the time of not losing weight.

---

A similar case study was published by Jampolis (2004).
A 51 year old patient complained of a 15 lb weight gain over the last year, despite beginning a strenuous triathlon and marathon training program (2 hours per day, 5-6 days per week).
A 3 day diet analysis estimated a daily intake of only 1000-1200 Calories.
An indirect calorimetry revealed a resting metabolic rate of 950 Calories (28% below predicted for age, height, weight, and gender).
After medications and medical conditions such as hypothyroidism and diabetes were ruled out, the final diagnosis was over-training and undereating. The following treatment was recommended:

Increase daily dietary intake by approximately 100 Calories per week to a goal of 1500 calories
32% protein; 35% carbohydrates; 33% fat
Consume 5-6 small meals per day
Small amounts of protein with each meal or snack
Choose high fiber starches
Select mono- and poly- unsaturated fats
Restrict consumption of starch with evening meals unless focused around training
Take daily multi-vitamin and mineral supplement
Perform whole body isometric resistance training 2 times per week

After 6 weeks, the patient's resting metabolism increased 35% to 1282 Calories per day (only 2% below predicted).
The patient also decreases percent fat from 37% to 34%, a loss of 5 lbs of body fat.

Jampolis MB (2004) Weight Gain - Marathon Runner / Triathlete. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 36(5) S148.

heybales

Just curious about your stats.
Mifflin BMR would be 1236 if average BF% with others same age, weight, height, and no medical issues.
The Cunningham RMR to go along with that would be 1382, having a BF of 32%.

For the Cunningham RMR to be at 960 though, that would imply a BF around 65%.
So if you are pretty sure you aren't at 65% BF, and at the healthy weight you are at, that would likely be impossible, I'm betting most of the lowered RMR is due to suppression, and only some muscle mass loss.

You could also be a tad slower in general, but that's usually only upwards of 5% of calculated.

So you should do as example above, slowly start eating more, 100 cal extra daily for 2 weeks at a time.
Except you will gain water weight, which will increase metabolism too since body has to manage it.

So there are people at healthy weight attempting to do exactly what you have done for purpose of longevity. In animals a slower metabolism than normal leads to less DNA damage and longer cell replacements happening correctly.

But animals are given exactly the right amount of food, so also are the people that do this to themselves, they watch calories like a hawk.

And it's all to easy to gain in this state, because it's all too easy to eat in excess, and that excess is going on as fat, unless you eat a little more constantly and increase metabolism.

ladybug77707

Replying quickly as I have an appointment to get to. First of all - THANK YOU!!!!! This information is GREAT and extremely helpful to me! I appreciate each and every response. A few follow-up questions:
-
1. Where can I get tested with a BODPOD? I am familiar with the other methods but not this one. If I can't find one, which method is second best? I DO need to know my BF % to find out if it is lack of LBM I am dealing with OR suppression of metabolism due to low calories. That will make a HUGE difference in how I need to approach this.
2. If I find out that I do need to eat MORE, do I eat those calories even if my body isn't hungry??? Or I I eat when I am not hungry just to reach those levels, doesn't that mean by body doesn't NEED the food since it isn't telling me I am hungry?
3. How can I 'save' or find this post again if it gets lost after a while? I am certain I will want to come back and reference it. Will print it, but sometimes print gets lost. I want to be sure I have it to come back to if I need it.


Cannot thank everyone enough! This has been such a trial for me to NOT know what to do after a lifetime of never really having to give it a second thought!

ladybug77707

Forgot to say.............I do have a desk job so that activity level is correct for me. I am going to take these numbers and do some work on it and adjust my diary for the calories, fat, protein, etc. I also really want to get my BF tested as one of the remaining pieces of the puzzle. THanks again, everyone, and if I can get some input on the last few things above, I feel like I am making progress!

MacCroc

Have you tested your thyroid? Hypothyroidism slows metabolism down.

ActuarialChef

ladybug77707 wrote: »

Replying quickly as I have an appointment to get to. First of all - THANK YOU!!!!! This information is GREAT and extremely helpful to me! I appreciate each and every response. A few follow-up questions:
-
1. Where can I get tested with a BODPOD? I am familiar with the other methods but not this one. If I can't find one, which method is second best? I DO need to know my BF % to find out if it is lack of LBM I am dealing with OR suppression of metabolism due to low calories. That will make a HUGE difference in how I need to approach this.
2. If I find out that I do need to eat MORE, do I eat those calories even if my body isn't hungry??? Or I I eat when I am not hungry just to reach those levels, doesn't that mean by body doesn't NEED the food since it isn't telling me I am hungry?
3. How can I 'save' or find this post again if it gets lost after a while? I am certain I will want to come back and reference it. Will print it, but sometimes print gets lost. I want to be sure I have it to come back to if I need it.


Cannot thank everyone enough! This has been such a trial for me to NOT know what to do after a lifetime of never really having to give it a second thought!

Scroll to the very top of the screen and click on the outline of a star, it should be to the right of the title of the post. The star will turn yellow, and then the post can be found in your bookmarked discussions, here: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussions/bookmarked

heybales

ladybug77707 wrote: »

Replying quickly as I have an appointment to get to. First of all - THANK YOU!!!!! This information is GREAT and extremely helpful to me! I appreciate each and every response. A few follow-up questions:
-
1. Where can I get tested with a BODPOD? I am familiar with the other methods but not this one. If I can't find one, which method is second best? I DO need to know my BF % to find out if it is lack of LBM I am dealing with OR suppression of metabolism due to low calories. That will make a HUGE difference in how I need to approach this.
2. If I find out that I do need to eat MORE, do I eat those calories even if my body isn't hungry??? Or I I eat when I am not hungry just to reach those levels, doesn't that mean by body doesn't NEED the food since it isn't telling me I am hungry?

Cannot thank everyone enough! This has been such a trial for me to NOT know what to do after a lifetime of never really having to give it a second thought!

1 - search your location for Bodpod on Google. University's that run tests have them many times, some health centers, some hospitals, ect.
Second best are all potential 5-10% accurate, or at least enough to get an idea, is 7-site skin-fold in the hand of experienced person, along with measurement method with 2 formula's, and then a good scale usage. All those method results averaged together.

As I said above, expected BF for average is 32%, you'd have to be at 65% for that RMR to be correct. So you already know it's not, because you aren't that high %. So you are suppressed metabolism.

2 - You feeling full and your body being fully fed are 2 entirely different things. You can train it to subsist on less than it wants, with no hunger pains. My comments above about people purposely doing this don't feel hungry all the time, just as their metabolism lowers, so does hunger desire.

How soon does your body tell you that you have a vitamin or mineral deficiency? Ever?
Or does it happen more that some negative effect shows up, you get blood test, and discover you are.
Same with calorie deficiency.

So yes - you do need to eat more even at times you may not feel like it. Only talking about 300 more daily though, so 100 more at 2 meals, and a 100 cal snack. Perhaps not eating stuff with so much volume but barely calories. A tad more calorie dense.
Like, do you do low or non-fat items?

ladybug77707

Thank you ALL!! ALL of these comments help TREMENDOUSLY. I feel like I at least know what to check and how to move forward, which was more than I had before I got your wonderful responses! thanks to each of you for sharing!!

ladybug77707

Forgot to say, heybales............amazing that it took only 6 weeks in that case study! I had a feeling if it was due to suppression that it would take much longer to 'fix'. I am hopeful! Also, Maccroc, I am checking out something with my thyroid (did have it checked, and it was 'normal', but 'low normal', so still investigating what that does or does not mean ))

heybales

Be aware eating too low can effect your thyroid numbers.

Also, one of the main effect of low is not metabolism in general, but less movement during the day. Wanting to sleep more, sit more, ect. You burn less daily.
And daily activity burn is a probably the 2nd biggest burn in people's TDEE well below BMR.
It's also what the body attempts to slow down first in undereating. Studies have shown the SPA (Spontaneous Physical Activity) in reduced, leaving more of your eaten calories for the basic metabolism needs that can't slow down that much.

This is why the Fitbit and other trackers with step goals works so well, it gets people to try to stay active.

Of course, in the problem of undereating, if the body isn't successful in slowing you down to conserve calories for more important things, it slows down the more important things.
There are still people in those forums talking about keeping/increasing their step goals while talking about bad skin/nails, hair falling out, being excessively cold, ect.

ladybug77707

Found a bodpod location yesterday, Heybales, and e-mailed about an appointment ) I am very interested in what it says!

Also, going back to the doctor this week who discovered the 'normal, yet low normal' thyroid..........she was willing to try medication if I was not better by this next visit (not so sure that I want to go that route, especially hearing what you are saying about under-eating and metabolism/thyroid). maybe I need to try the re-set principles for a while and go back in a few months. Medication that I have to be on indefinitely is NOT my first choice of approaches to take.

Sounds like Fitbit is something else I need to educate myself on ))