question about lean mass..

leanne0627

Hi all if anyone knows what's going on I'm curious as I thought it was impossible to gain muscle in a deficit... So I've lost 9 pounds so far not a lot but it looks like I've lost way more. In pictures and by the way my clothes are falling off it looks more like 30 pounds. People keep asking me how much weight ive lost and dont believe me when i tell them they say it looks like much more. I've also been measuring and I've lost 6 inches around my waist, 2 inches from each arm, 4 from hips and 3 inches each thigh etc...a lot of inches for only 9 pounds right? So I did a online calculator for bodyfat for my beginning numbers and current. It has me at 119 lbs fat and 106 lean at beginning and now at 93 lbs fat, 123 pounds lean...so according to that I've actually lost 26 pounds of fat but gained 17 pounds of lean mass...well now that just makes me confused BC if I didn't gain muscle then what did I gain... Or are those numbers inaccurate? Any insights would be appreciated thank u and hope everyone had a great holiday!

heybales

Lean Body Mass (LBM) =/= muscle mass

Muscle is one component of LBM, along with bones, water, ect. The other name used is Fat Free Mass (FFM), to point out the fact it's just everything that isn't fat really.

Many sites and commercials keep referring to this lean muscle mass - of which there is no such thing, as if your muscle is a cut of beef you are ordering at the butcher. You can't make muscle lean, it's going to have whatever level of fat in it the body wants. Endurance cardio is about only way to increase fat storage in the muscle, by a very small amount, since fat goes a long way.

Also consider that measurement methods of BF% can be upwards if 5% accurate, especially if you use several calculators that use different body parts and take avg. Just 1 though, could easily be 10% or worse off.

9 lbs of fat is a lot of volume.

And did you start a strength training program? Because at the start, if you tap out existing muscle and that was small, you can gain some muscle in a deficit, maybe 1 lb in 6 wks.
But the extra carbs with water attached that you can store, now that adds up.
Despite the fact it is less stored than when eating at maintenance.

So I'd say inaccuracies in figures make the numbers not that big.
And then the numbers that are realistic include things that easily happen.

Biggest improvements from exercise the body makes involves water increases. Increased blood volume for more vessels in the muscle and for sweating, and increased carb stores with water.

And if weigh-in and measurements were on invalid day and still sore from last workout, water for repair too.

Congrats on great loss, don't you love the confused look when you inform them of the mere 9 lbs you've lost - they think you are crazy.

leanne0627

Thanks yeah I'm not complaining about all the inches lost was just curious. So much contradictions in info on the net. I did just start lifting heavy and exercising about two months ago after years of inactivity. My family genetics may play a role in an ability to gain muscle as well. I have quite a few very muscular family members inclding one who does strong man competitions although they don't really work out that much. I've always carried my weight well and have never looked as heavy as I am. According to what I've read some newbie gains are possible in a deficit especially if the person had a lot of fat to begin with and keeps a small deficit not a huge one etc. And depending on family genes. So if this is correct it makes sense that I've maybe gained some muscle but prob also water weight and blood volume increases etc masking the fat loss? Its just hard to know if I'm on the right track or of I need to adjust my calories or workouts when the scale does not cooperate. Would you just suggest keeping everything the same for another month then revaluating then?

heybales

Yep.

Because if LBM is increasing, so is metabolism, and so is daily burn from using what you got.

Eventually, eating even the same amount because the weight hasn't changed, will become more of a deficit.

But that's also why starting the math with a BMR based on LBM and BF% can improve accuracy.

Not likely the case for you, but there are many where the Katch BMR is 200-400 lower than the inflated Harris BMR they based their TDEE on, which was then inflated 400-600 over better estimated TDEE.
Once they took 15% off inflated figure, they actually had no deficit in place compared to better estimated TDEE.

Now - lifting workouts made great progress then eating at maintenance, body made great improvements, but it would take years to improve the body so much that a deficit was finally created to lose fat.

So was your TDEE estimate based on Katch or Mifflin, I don't recall now?
And TDEE estimate was from rough 5 level table?

leanne0627

I'm using my fitbit for TDEE so it should be somewhat accurate. Two months ago I couldn't even do a pushup..now I can do 10 and i am able to lift heavier weights. I still have a long way to go but since I'm not "dieting" but eating more then ever I know this is something I can do the rest of my life and eventually the weight will drop (I hope). But its still a little frustrating for me just because I am a numbers person when I can't get the numbers to add up. According to my deficit I should have lost about 30 pounds by now, from comparing pictures it looks like I've lost that much, I'm down inches like crazy, I've had to buy new jeans BC the old ones were huge on me, but still the scale has barely moved. Do you think the scale will cooperate soon? Or do I need to change something up?

mymodernbabylon

I wouldn't even worry about the scale - numbers lie when it comes to weight. Why when you're losing inches? It's just a number and truly is meaningless - see this as an example:http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/ (go down toward the middle and see the difference between her at 130 lb and 142 lb...amazing.)

Nayners21

mymodernbabylon wrote: »

I wouldn't even worry about the scale - numbers lie when it comes to weight. Why when you're losing inches? It's just a number and truly is meaningless - see this as an example:http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/ (go down toward the middle and see the difference between her at 130 lb and 142 lb...amazing.)

Very inspiring story!!! I loved it! Great motivation!!

heybales

leanne0627 wrote: »

I'm using my fitbit for TDEE so it should be somewhat accurate. Two months ago I couldn't even do a pushup..now I can do 10 and i am able to lift heavier weights. I still have a long way to go but since I'm not "dieting" but eating more then ever I know this is something I can do the rest of my life and eventually the weight will drop (I hope). But its still a little frustrating for me just because I am a numbers person when I can't get the numbers to add up. According to my deficit I should have lost about 30 pounds by now, from comparing pictures it looks like I've lost that much, I'm down inches like crazy, I've had to buy new jeans BC the old ones were huge on me, but still the scale has barely moved. Do you think the scale will cooperate soon? Or do I need to change something up?

Fitbit is using almost Mifflin BMR for all non-moving time calorie burn.
Which would tend to underestimate. Being awake you burn more, digesting/processing eaten food you burn more, standing your burn more.
And I doubt you have a huge difference between Katch BMR and Mifflin BMR with that great lifting progress.

Are you correcting your Fitbit for the lifting workouts with manual logging, to get better estimated TDEE?

Are you weighing all foods that go in your mouth, except liquids for measuring?
Or at least spent 2 weeks do it really well to see how inaccurate normal methods are?

66 lbs left, gaining muscle can help carry that better, but true, extra weight on joints is not great either, and it actually takes away from your performance, because it makes recovery slower. Lifting an extra 66 lbs in certain lifts is different than carrying it around all day.

So 2 months with15% deficit from Fitbit TDEE?

I'm one for thinking that if there is excess fat weight that needs to go, then it needs to go, improving the body can happen at the same time at the start - and only the start.
If you accidentally eat at maintenance for too long, then you've missed the window for making great improvements while you lose fat weight. Later after lifting for a while - that won't happen.
It's the reason body builders know that a bulk/cut routine is much more efficient than attempting just a body recomp by eating at maintenance.
10-20 lbs transformation is different than 60 lbs to healthy weight.

While inches is great - it also indicates you are eating at TDEE if there is no weight lost, or reason for false water weight gain in the measurements over decent amount of time.

Did you start the deficit from eating at TDEE for awhile?

Nayners21

Are you correcting your Fitbit for the lifting workouts with manual logging, to get better estimated TDEE?

Do you have to log in weight lifting activities on fitbit or MFP to get a better accurate TDEE?

leanne0627

Thank you I guess I just needed some confirmation that I was on the right track. And no I am not logging weight lifting just cardio on the fitbit. I will start and see if that helps and yes I have a foodscale and am using it.

heybales

Nayners21 wrote: »

Do you have to log in weight lifting activities on fitbit or MFP to get a better accurate TDEE?

I'd say if you use the apps, then log it on Fitbit as Weight lifting.
That's because when you use the apps syncing seems to have an issue.
Or if you don't sync the accounts, merely wanted to know best TDEE estimate then it has to be on Fitbit.

If you don't use the apps and you do sync, then MFP is fine too, under Strength Training.

Fitbit used to have 2 levels of strength training, but they removed one, now they pretty much match MFP's entry.

It seems low compared to equal time cardio, but that is the truth.

But it's also usually a whole lot more than Fitbit would estimate, unless you walk around between sets to recover, but that's still not going to be high enough.