Artificial Sweeteners
hotsungirl
Posts: 107 Member
Question -- wondering about your weight loss success/experience while Ketogenic and consuming artificial sweeteners? I have been trying to avoid any and all--had read that some new research is showing your body still recognizes it as sugar and has a metabolic response, even if sucralose or aspartame, and even if calorie count is zero. I miss my flavored coffee. So I'm wondering what has your personal experience been?
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Hotsun;hotsungirl wrote: »Question -- wondering about your weight loss success/experience while Ketogenic and consuming artificial sweeteners? I have been trying to avoid any and all--had read that some new research is showing your body still recognizes it as sugar and has a metabolic response, even if sucralose or aspartame, and even if calorie count is zero. I miss my flavored coffee. So I'm wondering what has your personal experience been?
If you are just starting out, and if by "ketogenic diet" you mean achieving and maintaining a state of Nutritional Ketosis, they my advice would be that the artificial sweeteners are "fine", in the beginning, IF you need them to assist in cutting sugars and starches to the ultimate goal of 0.
It's the "not perfect.....but a whole lot "less bad" than the alternative" - theory.
Before long, "most" (but not all) find that once the sugar cravings are beaten into submission, they no longer "need" the AS's either.
You are correct that there is a response (varies by individual and related to degree of IR (insulin resistance) - so the "best" solution (IMO) is to limit them as much as possible (if not eliminate all together), but.....
"lesser of two evils...." (even without getting into the whole "chemicals" discussion which applies to some, but not all).
There are also a number of "anecdotal" (but fairly well documented) examples of artificial sweeteners being at the "root" of weight loss "stalls" so you might want to keep that in mind if you encounter it (although it's only "one", of many, "possible" causes.)
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I do not use artificial sweeteners for health concerns but I think it takes real carbs to impact getting into and staying in a state of nutritional ketosis.
According to some who think the taste buds are connected to the brain do think the info gathered at the tongue goes first to the brain and the brain prepares the body to digest the anticipated food.0 -
Gale;GaleHawkins wrote: »I do not use artificial sweeteners for health concerns but I think it takes real carbs to impact getting into and staying in a state of nutritional ketosis.
According to some who think the taste buds are connected to the brain do think the info gathered at the tongue goes first to the brain and the brain prepares the body to digest the anticipated food.
Depends on the meaning of the word (where have we heard that before<vbg>?) - "real".
Excess protein (or even not "excess" when carb levels fall to the point that BG is required), gluconeogenesis kicks in raising overall levels. Admittedly, that's a "good thing" and certainly isn't going to negatively impact B-OHB to the point where it's a concern but it is adding something to the "pot", AND, I would argue (others disagree) that IF it is "excess", it CAN indeed "knock one out".
So, at least "in effect" the protein didn't start out as a "real" carb, but when the liver waved its magic wand it became one, or at least became something that "can" result in the same thing.
So too with AS's, and for "insoluable" fibers (which, at least for some people, is an oxymoron).
The major argument for "fiber" (if it's considered as not a "real" carb) is not that it doesn't "count" - but rather than the fiber slows the rate at which it is metabolized and thus smooths out the "spikes" in BG, postprandial which is the basis (very much oversimplified) of the whole glycemic index (GI) school of thought.
So while I'd agree with your original statement that it's not likely to "kick out" someone who is firmly established in FA/NK - on its own - it (they) does have an impact, just not one significant enough by itself.
On the "taste buds connected to the brain...." - I agree that they are and do have that impact, but believe that it's only a part of the equation.
The "trigger" part does initiate the process but once begun, the "regulation" of it (quantities of insulin produced e.g.), and satiety, are also functions the brain controls, based on "signals" received based, at least in part, by enzymes produced.
Pretty amazing "machine" we've got going there - no?
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I want one flavored coffee a day. A single pump. I personally won't do aspartame and have found I have a GI response to others like Stevia. So here I am... I would almost put up with the stevia sucrala etc response just to have my coffee the way I really like. Not a big sugar or carb craver anyhow (I'm a dental hygienist) but sure like that one flavored coffee. Thanks for sharing what each of you have learned yourself.0
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Artificial sweeteners do definitely stall my weight loss. ..I've tried to control different variables to be sure it was the sweeteners and I only lost based on regular calorie restriction when using them. The weight didn't fly off like it does strictly low carb.0
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How about coffee with cream and cinnamon?0
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I'm going to try that! I've moved to using whipped cream with my coffee. What if I am under my sugar or carb count for the day. Do you think I can then cheat with the sugar in a flavor?
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I don't like artificial sweeteners and have one very flat teaspoon of sugar (4g carb) in my morning coffee. (Down from 2 heaped ones pre-low carb.) I include it in my daily carb limit. It's been working for me. I'm going to gradually decrease that one sugar until I can enjoy coffee with no sugar.0
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Hot;hotsungirl wrote: »I'm going to try that! I've moved to using whipped cream with my coffee. What if I am under my sugar or carb count for the day. Do you think I can then cheat with the sugar in a flavor?
Rather than looking at it as a "cheat" (a word you (we all), should banish from our lexicon), think of it as "proof" that "I CAN do it!" and reset your targets to the new, lower, number.
It's only a number, a goal and like golf - the lower the better. "0" for sugar has a nice ring.
Cinnamon is a great choice (AFAIK), lots of good nutrients, essential oils, antioxidants, and a calming effect on BG "spikes" - it's all good.
BUT, that's for "natural" cinnamon (the kind that comes in "sticks", NOT the can in the spice aisle). The "ground" stuff is mostly "fillers" so all the "good stuff" is either processed out or so diluted as to be negligible.
I don't recall the details but remember reading somewhere that some "varieties" of natural cinnamon (sticks) are better than others (nutrition wise) - the googlemachine is your "friend".
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I'm going to try cinnamon.
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I use both Splenda and a sugar-free creamer in my morning coffee and I've had no trouble whatsoever with it, just use in moderation. I also drink Crystal Light occasionally as well as diet sodas and still lose.0
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I try to limit the use of AS. The more AS I use, the worse my neuropathy seems to be. Now drink my ice tea plain and my coffee with cream only. Still using a little (1/2 packet or less) in iced coffee & hot tea. Mostly drink iced tea & water.0
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Snips;I try to limit the use of AS. The more AS I use, the worse my neuropathy seems to be. Now drink my ice tea plain and my coffee with cream only. Still using a little (1/2 packet or less) in iced coffee & hot tea. Mostly drink iced tea & water.
Just finished watching a video of a speech by Dr Lustig. He's probably one of the top "experts" in the world on all things "sugar" (especially with kids).
His lecture wasn't specifically aimed at artificial sweeteners, but there was a question in the Q&A at the end from the audience regarding "diet soda & AS's".
He's no industry shill (by a long shot) but was *very* clear that when it comes to AS's there IS compelling evidence that "we just don't know" when it comes to specific health concerns or chronic issues art sweeteners may cause.
Interesting explanation that boils down to the FDA DID mandate trials for acute toxicity for each of the brands and that all did pass.
The tests for acute toxicity basically "prove" that it won't kill you if you take prescribed dose, once.but....
By law, the FDA cannot demand tests for what is called pharmico dynamics (what the drug does to the body chronically (long term) and since it's not mandated, no tests have been done, and none are likely to be done.
The law is from 1938 and is the reason that big tobacco was able to "skirt" it for so long, despite testing that confirmed the chronic dangers and implications. Why the law was never amended to eliminate the "loophole" is anybody's guess but if the word lobbyist pops up on your radar it might be a clue.
FDA says they can't (beyond the scope of the law), NIH says they won't (pay for tests because industry should do it), and pharma says it's too expensive (and since there's no mandate, why bother?).
So anyone waiting for test results to make a decision is likely to be waiting a long time.
As to the acute issues and side effects, I think that they are very much "individual" and impossible to predict in any one instance.
You've identified an effect that applies in your case and others have as well (although different issues) but simply no way to know without trying. (or never trying and avoiding the whole thing <g>).
Pretty much comes down to something similar to "taste". Some like it, some don't (whether it actually is the "taste", or as in your case, the "side effects").
The other side of the coin though, is that IF one can deal with the aftertastes, AND just can't kick the "sweets" habit any other way, they are better (or less bad) than the "natural" alternatives, especially for "pre's" or T2D's although one does need to be aware of the potential for both provoking "stall" and reawakening the "beast".
In the end (and IMO), the sooner one can eliminate ALL sugars - the better and *how* one accomplishes it matters *much* less than that they DO (especially for fructose and HFCS which should be "job 1").
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Deansdad101,
A wonderful answer.
As far as should someone 'try'.. The answer is yes. But be sure YOU'RE in control. No one can tell you what your body/mind are going to let you get away with. If you expect to make changes today that effect your health and your future then you have a personal obligation to know yourself. Now does that mean try all the good and all the bad 'just in case'.., no. It means if sweet coffee is important to you, then find a way to make it work. I've heard coconut milk and vanilla are what the paleos are doing.. Might not be sweet, but you might discover you're craving the flavor. I can't drink coffee without half n half and I enjoy my coffee too much to cut it out of my diet. Its my luxury. My reward for drinking only water. We are all here to support you.0 -
Great and interesting thread but if you chose not to use AS, what else do folks drink when you are water logged. I use to use Smirnoff Ice but don't think that would be a "friendly" weight loss option, lol...thanks
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Artificial sweeteners are fine.0
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I try to limit the use of AS. The more AS I use, the worse my neuropathy seems to be. Now drink my ice tea plain and my coffee with cream only. Still using a little (1/2 packet or less) in iced coffee & hot tea. Mostly drink iced tea & water.
That's an interesting observation for sure.0 -
Happylifex10, when I drink I use clear liquor and crystal light. My favorite is seagrams lime twist gin or curzans pineapple rum. Be sure to research carb content.. Malibu rum in the same flavor claims actual carbs... They all have alcohol calories.
1.5 oz gin + wylers singles to go ( whole pack) in a 16 oz glass 107 calories.. No carbs.0 -
Cherie - your wylers singles don't have any AS? I know all ours (I'm from Ontario Canada) all have AS and I get wild headaches from that...thanks
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sorry, should have said - AS - particularly aspartame0
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »I try to limit the use of AS. The more AS I use, the worse my neuropathy seems to be. Now drink my ice tea plain and my coffee with cream only. Still using a little (1/2 packet or less) in iced coffee & hot tea. Mostly drink iced tea & water.
That's an interesting observation for sure.
Doesn't surprise me. My husband's parents used to make tea with Equal (aspartame), but when he moved out, he unintentionally stopped using it. We went to his family Christmas party and he drank a glass or two of the Equal tea, and very shortly after ended up with severe dizziness and lightheadedness.
It's a viable hypothesis, it seems, though it hasn't been thoroughly tested yet, that I know of.0 -
I use sugar free flavored syrup in my morning coffee, a splenda packet in my mid morning drink and will occasionally have a diet soda (usually if I'm craving sweets/tom) and as long as it keeps me under my 20g carb goal, I don't feel it's an issue. There are many days that I don't do the splenda or diet soda, but I would say I do use more then not.
I think what you learn through this WOE is what works best for you and from there you will make the right choices. There is always going to be some research which will support whatever view you want to represent, but as you take the time to monitor and learn about your personal food preferences and how those affect how you feel and (if it's the goal) your weigh loss/management, you will be able to recognize and use only what is helpful for you.0 -
Ketosis has me kind of feeling like I'm doing something really shockingly risky and opposite to the norm. I'm fine with that, because I believe in it, but boy have I had people that figured out what I was up to, or watched me with the full cream, just about die of shock ;-)0
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I use Monk Fruit which is a natural zero calorie sweetener. Like Stevia it brings its own flavor to the mix which can be good / bad depending on what your adding it to. I gave up on Spenda because not only are you not digesting it but neither is the environment. I read they are finding it in water samples because it is either not breaking down or not breaking down as fast as expected. There is always a catch I guess.
Some of the research I read about your body recognizing it as sugar said that like Pavlov's dog when you taste something that seems "sweet" your body goes into action expecting it even though its not sugar. I wonder if over time your body would lose that stimulus - response pairing like it would others.0 -
Happy life, they do.. Hence the reason I don't drink while I'm actively trying to lose weight.. But if I have a special event I want to drink at and I feel like its OK to lose the progress, then I might have a few drinks. You can probably fund a different mixer to suit your needs. I just wanted to offer you an option instead of Smirnoff ice.0
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thanks Cherie...I'm sure you know I was joking about the Smirnoff Ice but it is/or was my favourite drink of choice when I needed something to quench my thirst when water would just not do it...Mary
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