Help and Tips for Newbies

MajorMusic13

Hi there! I've been trying to do as much research as possible into paleo/primal/whole foods. Heres what I understand so far:
Paleo- no grains, no dairy and fat is considered good or at least okay?
Primal- no grains, some dairy and leaner meat than paleo?
Whole Food- Making sure food sources are clean and not processed. Seems less restrictive about what you can and cannot eat.

I have been GF for a year. I found that gluten was making my joints ache and caused numerous headaches. When I went GF I noticed a huge differencein a week. Currently I am having issues with pain and headaches again even though gluten is gone- so I am thinking grain free might be the next thing for me to try? Doctors have been no help. Called it everything from PCOS to recurrent sinus infections to allergies only to be disproven by testing. I am currently on a 6 week plan with my allergist that is driving my system nuts- some parts are not bad- no caffine/alcohol/chocolate, but other parts are- taking my allergy medication 2x a day which dries me out so much and has caused more headaches and nosebleeds because I can't stay hydrated even while having 132 ounces of water a day. Do any of you notice a difference in pain now? (Following paleo or primal or whole foods) Does anyone have a suggestion for what I may be able to do to help? I am so sick of feeling like there are no solutions and I will just have to live with the pain. Any tips are greatly appreciated.

emilymean

Well, that sounds miserable. If I were you, I'd ride it out with the allergist and if you get no relief lay off the meds and do a whole 30, this includes the above but also cutting out nightshades. Speaking for myself, being paleo for 3 months on and 3 months off last year, I definitely noticed in my joints, muscles and all digestion. An example: I had to have an emergency c section a few years back and since then whenever I would cough, I'd feel this pull and pain on my right inner thigh, sometimes it would be painful, mostly annoying and weird. This goes away when I am on paleo, I am assuming because the inflammation from certain foods has been taken out of rotation.

Keep doing your research, that's what helped me most and listen to your body and inner intuition. I say this because I went to a nutritionist last October and she really threw me off my game.

Good luck, I hope you get better soon.

punchgut

Hi MajorMusic13 and welcome. Feel free to add me and I can try and help answer some of your questions. You've asked a lot in your single post so bare with me while I try and answer your questions.

The only real difference between paleo and primal is primal takes a more nuanced approach to things. Will it harm you, what are the health benefits and if something available in this modern day is really beneficial then by all means incorporate it; but it does this from a stance of 'only if it doesn't affect you negatively'. A lot of what is "allowed" in primal comes from self experimentation. So, you really want to go paleo for a month and then try and test yourself with with slowly introducing a food one at a time. This takes time, meaning you cannot rush through it. So paleo: no grains, dairy, legumes and nightshades. Eat good sources of meat (ruminant prefered), fish, and aviary. Base your meals first off of dark leafy greans, vegetables, roots and some tubers (avoid potatoes) then add your meat. If you're doing low carb go carefully with the roots and tubers. Fit in offal once a week. I like using simple and crisp fruit chips for spreading pates and mousses on. Make bone broths and add that in for making a quick soup or drinking straight. After a month of eating this way, try adding dairy in one week and try to keep the dairy to a form raw milk cheese or kefir. See if it affects you negatively. If it does keep it out, if not allow yourself to incorporate it in moderation but always prefer cheeses and kefir from raw milk sources over pasteurized if possible, but from trusted sources only.

Now, both paleo and primal are fat friendly but they are particular about the fats and their sources. I recommend that you go to Marks Daily Apple and read his definitive guides to fats and oils. He covers them pretty well and it's applicable regardless of paleo or primal. Also, if you're low carbing it you'll need to up your fats but you want to do that with fats that will benefit you. All fats are not equal, but in short you want your fats to be small medium chain fatty acids first, saturated and omega-3 second. If you can get your omega-3 to omega-6 ratio 1:1 you're doing great.

To the rest of your questions:

I became paleo by chance, really. I had torn the labrum in both of my hips while teaching a ski racing clinic (no, I did not fall). It's hard to explain fully in a post but both legs way over rotated while in a very flexed position due to hitting an icy spot during a very fast left hand turn. Anyway, the doctors missed diagnosed me for years with a lower back problem even though they could not find anything wrong and none of their treatments were working. This is when workman's compensation got a lawyer to kick me out of their insurance. This left me without doctors and decreasing mobility. The accident was in February 2008 and by December 2010 I could barely walk, sit or stand life. In a brief moment of considering buying street drugs to take the pain away, I decided to use my extensive background in biological chemistry, biochemistry and bio-organic chemistry to study the inflammatory process and see if I could do anything to help myself. At the end of a lot of library time, I came to the conclusion that I needed to ditch all grains, dairy, legumes, nightshades and increase my saturated and omega-3 fats. I went from debilitated to up and running around in short order. By the end of 2011, we had obtained very good insurance and I went to some doctors and told them what was wrong with me (meaning I didn't let them diagnose) and got into the right specialist. I had surgery on my left hip in 2012 which really improved my life. I'm getting my right hip done this March. The left was worse, way worse. So, I was paleo for a few months before I knew it was a thing. After a few months that way, I started testing myself with various things and discovered I can eat dairy in moderation. I'm fine with occasional rice, but I try to avoid it. Corn will cause my injuries to hurt so I try to stay away. I'm okay with nightshades, in moderation with eggplant causing the most problems. My hip and going paleo diagnosed my celiac, which doctors had been treating my autoimmune disease with antibiotics and tranquilizing antihistamines for years. Going paleo also got rid of gerd/heartburn. I lost a lot of weight going paleo/primal and then put on a little due to my love of wine and starchy tubers. So I'm here to lose 25 lbs of fat. I could care less if my weight goes down as long as I lose the fat and gain muscle. It's a surgery thing. I like going into and coming out of surgery in decent shape.


Well, I hope I've answered your questions.

MajorMusic13

Thank you both so much! I plan to continue my research. I really want a full understanding before I throw myself into a new diet. I will definitely check out Marks Daily Apple. I've heard many people mention that blog.

punchgut

When you're at MDA, start from his first post and move forward from there in chronological order. It will be much easier for you. Also, check out Rob Wolff's blog.

punchgut

Oh, and it's not just an eating thing. It's a lifestyle deal. Eat well, get plenty of sleep, lift heavy things, move frequently at a slow pace and avoid poisonous things.

MajorMusic13

Thanks! Will keep that in mind.

DesigningHilary

I second going to Mark's Daily Apple and learning everything you can. Punchgut did a great job in summing up the major points. Bone broth is just simply wonderful stuff!

Speaking only for myself, my sinus problems cleared up after I began to drink fresh, raw milk. I am fortunate enough to have the dairy farm just 1 mile from home. Texas is not raw milk friendly, but you can purchase it on the farm and only on the farm. Different states have different laws. I'm not sure why the drinking of raw milk worked for me ... Enzymes? Gut-friendly bacteria? After noticing the huge change I began the pursuit of learning how nutrition works for me. I found MDA fairly early in my search and learned a lot and benefited greatly.

Currently I'm exploring the "Bullet Proof" approach/protocol which is based on Paleo. The thought of learning to "hack" you own body is intriguing and I'm learning even more about what works best for me.

Try not to look at it as throwing yourself into a new diet. This is just about eating quality whole food. "It all starts with food." The concepts are actually old-time wisdom.

punchgut

DesigningHilary wrote: »

I second going to Mark's Daily Apple and learning everything you can. Punchgut did a great job in summing up the major points. Bone broth is just simply wonderful stuff!

Speaking only for myself, my sinus problems cleared up after I began to drink fresh, raw milk. I am fortunate enough to have the dairy farm just 1 mile from home. Texas is not raw milk friendly, but you can purchase it on the farm and only on the farm. Different states have different laws. I'm not sure why the drinking of raw milk worked for me ... Enzymes? Gut-friendly bacteria? After noticing the huge change I began the pursuit of learning how nutrition works for me. I found MDA fairly early in my search and learned a lot and benefited greatly.

Currently I'm exploring the "Bullet Proof" approach/protocol which is based on Paleo. The thought of learning to "hack" you own body is intriguing and I'm learning even more about what works best for me.

Try not to look at it as throwing yourself into a new diet. This is just about eating quality whole food. "It all starts with food." The concepts are actually old-time wisdom.

^THIS.

But also think of it as an experiment with yourself, an n=1 experiment. Just get to a good baseline where you feel great and then attempt to change things one at a time. Little tweaks here and there. But it takes time to get there.

cindytw

I have Celiac disease and found that when I was first diagnosed I couldn't do dairy. I was off for 8 months because Lactaid didn't work, raw milk didn't work, nothing. Its a thing, people sensitive to gluten also often respond the same to dairy. Inflammatory response (that I can feel happening now in my head...like a rush of fluid) like gluten. Now that only happens with Greek Yogurt and sour cream. Nonetheless I am trialing no dairy again for 30 days in January as I have rashes back that I thought were gluten and dairy based. So Jan 31 I am going to have my cheese I so crave and see what happens...I also used to cheat regularly with chips and fries and some restaurant food. I gave that up for 30 days as well.

Gluten makes me feel like I swallowed broken glass...and can feel every cut on the way down. I used to get migraines, regularly and that has stopped altogether. It has been 5 years since I ate gluten and 5 years since my last migraine. My knees used to ache and that has gone away. Corn soon became similar for me, but cramping instead of glass, and all grains make my stomach bloat right up. But I never would have learned these things if I hadn't eliminated them and started clean with meat, fish, poultry, vegetables and some fruits...I went on Specific Carbohydrate Diet for a while too when I continued to have issues with Paleo. Now I am doing fine for the most part but for rashes on my face that I refuse to go to the derm for she gives antibiotics and steroids and neither are good for me. I just got my probiotics/gut flora back in line!

Mark's Daily Apple is a great place to start, but if you just Google Paleo you will find a ton of sites. All conflict at certain points, so I like Mark's take that if you find you can tolerate something, the do so. But eliminate it for a period of time to try it without. Often we get used to feeling bad so we just don't know!

If you do find you have a grain issue...be on the lookout for sneaky things! Shredded cheese has corn starch, Baking Powder is made with it but you can make your own, corn syrup is in everything these days and that is actually the worst for my stomach. Maybe because it is concentrated...IDK. Soy is another big allergen as well and that is in everything too. Label reading!! On EVERYTHING!! I had to throw out a LOT of stuff I never realized would have gluten, dairy, soy, corn...even spices!

MajorMusic13

Thanks for the tips! Definitely didnt know shredded cheese had corn startch. I did know of things hiding in spices. When I first went GF I found lots of things had hidden gluten in it, without needing it to be there.

homesweeths

cindytw wrote: »

If you do find you have a grain issue...be on the lookout for sneaky things! Shredded cheese has corn starch, Baking Powder is made with it but you can make your own, corn syrup is in everything these days and that is actually the worst for my stomach. Maybe because it is concentrated...IDK. Soy is another big allergen as well and that is in everything too. Label reading!! On EVERYTHING!! I had to throw out a LOT of stuff I never realized would have gluten, dairy, soy, corn...even spices!

Also, a lot of plastic is made from corn! I have a friend, severely allergic to corn, who found out she was reacting to water she drank from plastic bottles -- because the bottles contaminated the water with corn!

homesweeths

Welcome, BTW! Our eldest is celiac, and so we had been eating gluten free for a couple of years before I went paleo/primal. Robb Wolf's book was a great help in getting started, along with Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint, and his already-mentioned website.

I started paleo/primal (I can do full-fat dairy like butter, full cream, and sour cream, but I try not to eat dairy every day) because of crippling joint pain.

Google "paleo AIP" or "auto-immune protocol". There's good info available. Apparently, there are proteins in other foods that cause your body to react as if reacting to gluten. Dairy, for one (casein is very similar in structure to gluten). Nightshades comprise another group -- evidently tomatoes, potatoes, peppers (including spices made from peppers), and eggplants have a protein similar to gluten. AIP also has you eliminate some other allergy-prone foods like eggs and nuts, and re-introduce them individually to see if you react after a long time away. (Not eating eggs was really hard for me! I'm so glad I was able to reintroduce them without a problem.)

Oddly enough, I don't seem to have a problem with wheat on the infrequent occasions I eat it. I can't say the same thing for nightshades, though. I'm off tomatoes and potatoes for the foreseeable future. Sometimes I'll hazard a little taco seasoning, when we're eating at someone else's house, but very seldom as it does make me a little stiffer for a few days after (potatoes and tomatoes result in several days of pain as well as stiffness).

My biggest problem is carbs -- I have to keep my carbs fairly low to prevent pain and stiffness as well as carb cravings. I aim at 50-75g of carbs per day, most days, with a weekly higher carb (100-150g) day to keep my body guessing. Some people swear by carb-cycling, some say it doesn't work. It seems to work for me.

I also take supplements: Good-quality vitamin C in megadoses, glucosamine-chondritin, magnesium citrate. Two years ago, I also took green-lipped mussel supplement -- sounds odd, but it helped to rebuild or at least stabilize the cartilage in my knees, or something like that. I haven't needed to take it for awhile. I was taking vitamin D but suffered symptoms of an overdose -- apparently water kiefer and kombucha (both of which I brew at home) contain a fair amount of vitamin D in themselves. Enough for my body, anyhow.

One other caution: My joints improved after several months, so gradually that I was six months into it when I realized the severe joint pain had resolved. But I also went through something really puzzling. All my tendons and ligaments ached! Even though my joints didn't hurt, I was in almost constant pain from the ligaments and tendons! Nothing seemed to help, and I couldn't find a reasonable explanation. I stuck with the diet, because at least my joints were so much improved, and gradually (it took a long time) the other pain resolved. I'm guessing it had something to do with my body detoxing after going off all convenience foods ("gluten free" doesn't necessarily mean healthy food prepared from fresh ingredients), or maybe it was a facet of the vitamin D poisoning.

punchgut

homesweeths wrote: »

Also, a lot of plastic is made from corn! I have a friend, severely allergic to corn, who found out she was reacting to water she drank from plastic bottles -- because the bottles contaminated the water with corn!

I mean this in the most polite way possible. But as a chemist who understands this method of obtaining feed stock for production of plastics from corn, your friend was not having a reaction to corn from her plastic bottles. Not possible, ever. I'm also speaking as someone who has a large biochemistry and medicinal chemistry background. The allergens people react to in grains are proteins and there will never, ever be any of them in the plastic bottles. Your friend could be reacting to plasticizers and/or phthalates, but there will be no protein, protein fragments (peptides) or amino acids in there. Not possible. Even if you're friend were to claim they were reacting to polysaccharides from corn, this would still not be possible. This is because they take all the proteins out, process the polysaccharides down to acetic acid remove anything larger than that through size exclusion filtration and distillations and then make the plastics out of the acetic acid by forming polyacetic acid (PLA). This breaks down to acetic acid (or acetate) which is non-toxic and is a natural product used extensively throughout the body. It is in fact a very important molecule in cellular metabolism. So important, you would die without it.

Science nerd out.

lujo321

All of the above is great advice. If you do well with a firm structure in place though I would suggest doing a whole 30. They give you very strict guidelines to follow which makes it easy to follow as you don't have to think about it too much. Just be sure you do not skip the reintroductions. They will actually turn your whole 30 into a whole 40-50 but it is so worth it. Also I suggest stretching the time between reintroductions an extra day or two. Especially if you do have a reaction. Their guidelines suggest the minimum amount of time as 3 days but I think I would have benefitted from more time between each.

homesweeths

punchgut wrote: »

homesweeths wrote: »

Also, a lot of plastic is made from corn! I have a friend, severely allergic to corn, who found out she was reacting to water she drank from plastic bottles -- because the bottles contaminated the water with corn!

I mean this in the most polite way possible. But as a chemist who understands this method of obtaining feed stock for production of plastics from corn, your friend was not having a reaction to corn from her plastic bottles. Not possible, ever. I'm also speaking as someone who has a large biochemistry and medicinal chemistry background. The allergens people react to in grains are proteins and there will never, ever be any of them in the plastic bottles. Your friend could be reacting to plasticizers and/or phthalates, but there will be no protein, protein fragments (peptides) or amino acids in there. Not possible. Even if you're friend were to claim they were reacting to polysaccharides from corn, this would still not be possible. This is because they take all the proteins out, process the polysaccharides down to acetic acid remove anything larger than that through size exclusion filtration and distillations and then make the plastics out of the acetic acid by forming polyacetic acid (PLA). This breaks down to acetic acid (or acetate) which is non-toxic and is a natural product used extensively throughout the body. It is in fact a very important molecule in cellular metabolism. So important, you would die without it.

Science nerd out.

Huh, interesting. Thanks for the clarification! I'll have to mention it to her, next time I see her.