HRM and MAX HR During Exercise
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Graelwyn75
Posts: 4,404 Member
Just had some moron message me to claim I am making things up, and to call BS because I posted in a thread that my heart rate remains around 90-92% of my max while running. This is true, it does, because 1) I am new to running outdoor and 2) I have emphysema and 68% lung function and push myself through it, no matter how uncomfortable, so why on earth would it be so hard to believe I could sustain a run at that % of my max? I have heard of other runners whose heart rates remain in the 180s throughout their runs, so what is the big deal? I hate being called a liar.
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Since I really don't know crap about anything related specifically to how lung function can skew heart rate results during training, I'm not going to comment on this.
But I will ask if the person who accused you of lying even lifts. And I wonder if he or she is going to get swole.0 -
Since I really don't know crap about anything related specifically to how lung function can skew heart rate results during training, I'm not going to comment on this.
But I will ask if the person who accused you of lying even lifts. And I wonder if he or she is going to get swole.
I think they are primarily a runner.
Aww sweet, he even posted a topic about me.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1006851-runners-92-95-max-for-55min
Why can't people leave others alone?0 -
Tagging and hoping Evgeni sees it.0
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Just fed up, truly, to be honest, I mean why on earth would anyone want to lie about something like their working out heartrate?
I was actually kind of bothered it remained so high given I worked hard to get to my current level of fitness. I have been working on my fitness for years now, with my lung condition working against me, so I sort of thought, wth, why is it not dropping back to the 85% area which is sort of where I tend to be on the elliptical and treadmill. I can only assume it was a combination of it being hot outside, having a very heavy TOM(complete with cramps) and possibly pushing myself too hard as when I set out to do something, it takes a lot to stop me completing it.
My max heart rate is around 182 if you go by the 220 - age rule, so I guess it was in the low 170s while running. Should I be concerned about heart trouble if I continue a workout at that level? Does anyone here know?0 -
It doesn't sound excessively high to me. HR depends on your body size, age, level of fitness, and yes, it can be affected by the conditions in which you are running. This said, at age 37, 5'9", and a fairly decent aerobic capacity, I get my heart rate to the low 160's running on a treadmill in an air-conditioned gym. (I don't own an HRM so I rely on the treadmill's heart rate handles, but the readings are consistent between the machines.) I can imagine that it would easily crawl into the 170's or higher if I ran outside on a hot day.
The standard diagnostic for aerobic exercise is that you should be able to maintain a conversation while doing it. Not a beautiful actorly conversation, but you shouldn't be gasping for air as you would if you were sprinting. So, I wouldn't worry unless you are experiencing serious discomfort during or after your run.0 -
It doesn't sound excessively high to me. HR depends on your body size, age, level of fitness, and yes, it can be affected by the conditions in which you are running. This said, at age 37, 5'9", and a fairly decent aerobic capacity, I get my heart rate to the low 160's running on a treadmill in an air-conditioned gym. (I don't own an HRM so I rely on the treadmill's heart rate handles, but the readings are consistent between the machines.) I can imagine that it would easily crawl into the 170's or higher if I ran outside on a hot day.
The standard diagnostic for aerobic exercise is that you should be able to maintain a conversation while doing it. Not a beautiful actorly conversation, but you shouldn't be gasping for air as you would if you were sprinting. So, I wouldn't worry unless you are experiencing serious discomfort during or after your run.
I don't know I'd be able to hold a conversation while running, well, not all of it, and it is uncomfortable, but obviously if it gets really bad I do stop. My impaired lungs means that even at a relatively slow pace, I get breathless running outside. Frustrating. It took me months of running on the treadmill indoors to get up the courage to venture outside as the one time I did try, I only managed 15 minutes before I was dripping sweat and insanely out of breath. But where I am, it is sort of mixed terrain I run on, and inclines, not flat at all so that doesn't help much. I recover very quickly once I stop anyway and usually feel good once I do. But yeah, it is undeniably not always fun for me to run, it seems to impact my breathing more than any other exercise I do, but to me, that means it will strengthen my lungs over time.0 -
What you think is your HRmax is likely not really high enough.
So you really aren't at 90-92% of HRmax, but probably closer to 80-85%.
Unless you have done very specific HR zone training to raise your lactate threshold.
Working out at that level merely means your are totally training your carb burning system, and it's a big stress on your system, you have about max amount of lactate acid in your system that you can buffer and use, any more and muscles would start shutting down and feeling that burn.
The other problem with always training at that level, guess where the HR wants to go when your start exercising, and the fuel source used.
Some aerobic level training would help balance that out. View it as a different kind of workout, training different part of system. And while it might not feel the same, there is still benefit to it.
Your lungs in fact are going to make that lactate threshold lower than your HRmax might indicate, because you reach that LT line easier if your body has trouble supplying the oxygen needed to burn the fuel, and it sounds like you do.
So I'll bet your HRmax is higher, genetically, and you been fit enough to keep it there despite age, so 220-age doesn't work.
And I'll bet your % of HRmax isn't that high either, because with impaired lungs and oxygen supply, your LT is low, no matter how much training you could purposely do at that level.
And if this is day after day of this level, that is actually not great on the system, unless you keep it short, 30 min or less.
Since you can get that high, you should self test for your HRmax, then you'll know, and get decent estimate of VO2max.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/466973-i-want-to-test-for-my-max-heart-rate-vo2-max0 -
How do you know your max hr?0
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What you think is your HRmax is likely not really high enough.
So you really aren't at 90-92% of HRmax, but probably closer to 80-85%.
Unless you have done very specific HR zone training to raise your lactate threshold.
Working out at that level merely means your are totally training your carb burning system, and it's a big stress on your system, you have about max amount of lactate acid in your system that you can buffer and use, any more and muscles would start shutting down and feeling that burn.
The other problem with always training at that level, guess where the HR wants to go when your start exercising, and the fuel source used.
Some aerobic level training would help balance that out. View it as a different kind of workout, training different part of system. And while it might not feel the same, there is still benefit to it.
Your lungs in fact are going to make that lactate threshold lower than your HRmax might indicate, because you reach that LT line easier if your body has trouble supplying the oxygen needed to burn the fuel, and it sounds like you do.
So I'll bet your HRmax is higher, genetically, and you been fit enough to keep it there despite age, so 220-age doesn't work.
And I'll bet your % of HRmax isn't that high either, because with impaired lungs and oxygen supply, your LT is low, no matter how much training you could purposely do at that level.
And if this is day after day of this level, that is actually not great on the system, unless you keep it short, 30 min or less.
Since you can get that high, you should self test for your HRmax, then you'll know, and get decent estimate of VO2max.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/466973-i-want-to-test-for-my-max-heart-rate-vo2-max
Thanks, very informative. And no, when cycling, which I tend to do often over the summer, my HR does not remain so high, unless going up hills. When on the treadmill, I can easily talk, so I assume that means my HR on there doesn't get all that high now either. Elliptical, I need to recheck but I used to have to force myself to a pretty easy pace to keep my heart rate below 85% which was frustrating. I do a day a week where I just walk a lot, and do no heavy cardio, I also have a day where I tend to just do a 30 minute run. My outdoor runs usually are not 55 minutes, they had been a max of 30 minutes until a few days ago, when I just added an extra bit. I did do some HIIT for a time until my knee started giving me issues, not dared get back into that, and that only lasted 20 minutes.
I have not done any specific training to raise my lactate threshold, to my knowledge. I tend to fly by the seat of my pants, mainly, and see what results I get, in the sense that I have not been directed by anyone in what I do. I do some research, but tend to just do what feels right or what I feel like doing. The whole lactate thing is pretty much a foreign language to me, although I do know sometimes I just hit a point where my legs do not want to even walk, usually after 4 or 5 days of my workouts. I can cycle for up to 3 hours, however, with plenty of hills, without hitting a stall.
Will look into that link regarding HR max.0 -
Thanks, very informative. And no, when cycling, which I tend to do often over the summer, my HR does not remain so high, unless going up hills. When on the treadmill, I can easily talk, so I assume that means my HR on there doesn't get all that high now either. Elliptical, I need to recheck but I used to have to force myself to a pretty easy pace to keep my heart rate below 85% which was frustrating. I do a day a week where I just walk a lot, and do no heavy cardio, I also have a day where I tend to just do a 30 minute run. My outdoor runs usually are not 55 minutes, they had been a max of 30 minutes until a few days ago, when I just added an extra bit. I did do some HIIT for a time until my knee started giving me issues, not dared get back into that, and that only lasted 20 minutes.
I have not done any specific training to raise my lactate threshold, to my knowledge. I tend to fly by the seat of my pants, mainly, and see what results I get, in the sense that I have not been directed by anyone in what I do. I do some research, but tend to just do what feels right or what I feel like doing. The whole lactate thing is pretty much a foreign language to me, although I do know sometimes I just hit a point where my legs do not want to even walk, usually after 4 or 5 days of my workouts. I can cycle for up to 3 hours, however, with plenty of hills, without hitting a stall.
Will look into that link regarding HR max.
The lactate acid is the burn from running up the stairs anaerobically. The burn during the exercise.
The multi-day effect is just plain having tired muscles.
Most people indeed have a lower HRmax on cycling, unless you started with cycling and went to running later, or spend a lot of time pushing hard on the cycling, which in studies even triathletes who started with running first, do not it appears.
Yep, the HRmax can be different on different workouts. Much lower on swimming, elliptical just depends.
I happen to very evenly match my cycling and running, and my HRmax and LT and VO2max match between them both. Swimming, well, that's another story.
Good job on varying the workout.
Exactly like intervals allows a really hard push because you take an easy recovery time, day to day is the same principle. A really hard day can be harder and a better workout if you have really easy days.
And the harder the push on an interval or hard day, the better the workout and improvement. And the easy part allows that.
That's why the fat-burning zone was and is more correctly called the Active Recovery HR zone. The easy day, no additional load, just blood flow, and training the body to burn fat. To offset the hard days of training to burn carbs.
HIIT of 10 min is just fine - 5 min walk warm-up - 10 min slow jog - 15 sec all out sprint, 45 sec walk, repeat 10 times - 10 min slow jog - 5 min walk cool-down. 40 min total, once per week max. Rest day after or slow short jog, because it's like lifting if done with fresh legs.
If you have interest in endurance though, I'd suggest adding on the slower aerobic training. Training for carb burning will fail for endurance.
While you can raise your LT level a little bit by training the upper level to go slightly higher by say 10 bpm (say your aerobic range went from 90-160 to 90-170), if you train the fat-burning system to be used for longer and harder intensity, you've really expanded your endurance ability (say 50% fat burning went from about 120 to 140 bpm).
The LT improvement will help on the hill or the increased pace for a bit, but the increased fat-burning level will improve the endurance speed and time.
Just some other tidbits. What I've found with many is those that have a lot of training on upper HR zones, almost can't do a slower HR workout. But it's not too bad if not effecting you negatively than. Many it does.0 -
Thanks, very informative. And no, when cycling, which I tend to do often over the summer, my HR does not remain so high, unless going up hills. When on the treadmill, I can easily talk, so I assume that means my HR on there doesn't get all that high now either. Elliptical, I need to recheck but I used to have to force myself to a pretty easy pace to keep my heart rate below 85% which was frustrating. I do a day a week where I just walk a lot, and do no heavy cardio, I also have a day where I tend to just do a 30 minute run. My outdoor runs usually are not 55 minutes, they had been a max of 30 minutes until a few days ago, when I just added an extra bit. I did do some HIIT for a time until my knee started giving me issues, not dared get back into that, and that only lasted 20 minutes.
I have not done any specific training to raise my lactate threshold, to my knowledge. I tend to fly by the seat of my pants, mainly, and see what results I get, in the sense that I have not been directed by anyone in what I do. I do some research, but tend to just do what feels right or what I feel like doing. The whole lactate thing is pretty much a foreign language to me, although I do know sometimes I just hit a point where my legs do not want to even walk, usually after 4 or 5 days of my workouts. I can cycle for up to 3 hours, however, with plenty of hills, without hitting a stall.
Will look into that link regarding HR max.
The lactate acid is the burn from running up the stairs anaerobically. The burn during the exercise.
The multi-day effect is just plain having tired muscles.
Most people indeed have a lower HRmax on cycling, unless you started with cycling and went to running later, or spend a lot of time pushing hard on the cycling, which in studies even triathletes who started with running first, do not it appears.
Yep, the HRmax can be different on different workouts. Much lower on swimming, elliptical just depends.
I happen to very evenly match my cycling and running, and my HRmax and LT and VO2max match between them both. Swimming, well, that's another story.
Good job on varying the workout.
Exactly like intervals allows a really hard push because you take an easy recovery time, day to day is the same principle. A really hard day can be harder and a better workout if you have really easy days.
And the harder the push on an interval or hard day, the better the workout and improvement. And the easy part allows that.
That's why the fat-burning zone was and is more correctly called the Active Recovery HR zone. The easy day, no additional load, just blood flow, and training the body to burn fat. To offset the hard days of training to burn carbs.
HIIT of 10 min is just fine - 5 min walk warm-up - 10 min slow jog - 15 sec all out sprint, 45 sec walk, repeat 10 times - 10 min slow jog - 5 min walk cool-down. 40 min total, once per week max. Rest day after or slow short jog, because it's like lifting if done with fresh legs.
If you have interest in endurance though, I'd suggest adding on the slower aerobic training. Training for carb burning will fail for endurance.
While you can raise your LT level a little bit by training the upper level to go slightly higher by say 10 bpm (say your aerobic range went from 90-160 to 90-170), if you train the fat-burning system to be used for longer and harder intensity, you've really expanded your endurance ability (say 50% fat burning went from about 120 to 140 bpm).
The LT improvement will help on the hill or the increased pace for a bit, but the increased fat-burning level will improve the endurance speed and time.
Just some other tidbits. What I've found with many is those that have a lot of training on upper HR zones, almost can't do a slower HR workout. But it's not too bad if not effecting you negatively than. Many it does.
I did indeed start with cycling. I did cycling for over a year before I even ventured to try running on a treadmill. I push hard cycling, but I have to because it is hilly terrain around here, and if I don't push, I tend to crawl too slow, haha. I probably need to build up more strength in my legs there, I have the endurance for cycling, but not so much the leg strength. I cycled almost daily for a year at one point, and still, my legs did not seem to get especially stronger which was real pita. Only this year I have really started mixing things up, adding in weights, adding in an outdoor run once a week if I can. I have tried running slower on the treadmill, and what happens usually is I find it really awkward and frustrating and ramp up the speed because I love running fast, lol. I have gone in several times, intent on taking my time and doing a long run, and always end up hitting the speed button. It could just be my personality. Same on stationary bike, I always go in with the aim to get 30Km in an hour on an intervals level 5 or 6 setting. The only fat burning exercise I do, is probably my walking. I always considered my cycling to resemble interval training of some kind due to the hills, the stops at lights and crossings, the differences in terrain and changes in heart rate depending on that.
Definitely want to be able to run longer and slower, but think it would have to be outside as on the treadmill, I just end up looking down all the time as it feels so unnatural.
Will try adding some 10 minute hiit sessions again, when my knee is not complaining. I used to always feel energised after doing it, not exhausted at all.0 -
I did indeed start with cycling. I did cycling for over a year before I even ventured to try running on a treadmill. I push hard cycling, but I have to because it is hilly terrain around here, and if I don't push, I tend to crawl too slow, haha. I probably need to build up more strength in my legs there, I have the endurance for cycling, but not so much the leg strength. I cycled almost daily for a year at one point, and still, my legs did not seem to get especially stronger which was real pita. Only this year I have really started mixing things up, adding in weights, adding in an outdoor run once a week if I can. I have tried running slower on the treadmill, and what happens usually is I find it really awkward and frustrating and ramp up the speed because I love running fast, lol. I have gone in several times, intent on taking my time and doing a long run, and always end up hitting the speed button. It could just be my personality. Same on stationary bike, I always go in with the aim to get 30Km in an hour on an intervals level 5 or 6 setting. The only fat burning exercise I do, is probably my walking. I always considered my cycling to resemble interval training of some kind due to the hills, the stops at lights and crossings, the differences in terrain and changes in heart rate depending on that.
Definitely want to be able to run longer and slower, but think it would have to be outside as on the treadmill, I just end up looking down all the time as it feels so unnatural.
Will try adding some 10 minute hiit sessions again, when my knee is not complaining. I used to always feel energised after doing it, not exhausted at all.
So true on outdoor cycling being more interval like. That was the first big discovery years and years ago before intervals became a fad, was why were outdoor cyclist so much more fit and burning more than indoor machine riders. That totally interval nature of it was the reason why.
Aaah, change in suggestion then.
1 day a week, hill sprints. Usually can't be as fast as intervals because pushing up hill, since going up, not nearly the impact of sprinting level on ankle, and it really helps out cycling. Walk down the back side as the rest.
Just want to find a hill that sprinting up will take 30-60 sec, walk down 90-180 sec. Repeat 6-10 times. Really stretch leg out to engage glutes, calves, and quads max.
The day after should be a gentle day still with something, as this is like lifting and needs good rest, recovery, repair to actually benefit from it.
Day before shouldn't be too hard either, if you go in with tired muscles, it obviously feels like you are pushing yourself, but not to the same level of effort, and you won't get the same good response.
That ability to get stronger from the riding will take longer without the rest, much longer, because it's hard to put a real load beyond endurance on the muscles. If eating at deficit during that time, forget it.
So good job trying to mix it up.
I enjoy the biking so much more when I can hammer it, the jogging is actually my recovery cardio, slow and gentle usually, except for the sprints of some sort, or if needing some specific training at pace.0 -
Ah, I saw some on my list do hill sprints. there are no steep hills within walking distance to me, but there is a sort of moderate, long hill on our local common that slow me right down when I am running up it, lol. That one might do the trick. A few on my friend list do hill sprints and I always was curious about it. It can be done on treadmill by creating an incline, I guess, but that would not be as effective. I do sometimes set the treadmill to rolling hills and do that for 20-40 minutes at a slower pace if the weather is bad, and it is quite a killer as the inclines are every 15-20 seconds. Just as I am breathing a sigh of relief after a 3.5% another one comes up haha. I do have issues with taking it easy, I hate resting, I suppose because I eat a lot(definitely not at a deficit, I eat between 2000 and 3000 calories), and exercise is my way of trying to maintain my weight now that I am up to a healthy weight, and I get concerned that if I do not exercise intensely most days, the weight is going to pile on.
I adore cycling, there is something very liberating in it for me. I don't drive, so it gets me out into the countryside. My bike is just an 90s Marin San Rafael, very good bike, but not road bike level. It has Schwalbe tyres on though, courtesy of the previous owner. I have not yet dared venture into a true road bike as although I see others going on the rougher cycle tracks on them, they always look quite precarious to me. There is a photo in my profile pics of one of the areas I cycle in that is extremely hilly, in the Uk's New Forest. I tend to only do that on a low wind day. Hopefully the sprints will help as I get peed off when I hit a hill and it has me coming to a crawl sometimes. That said, I tend to keep my bike in 1st gear much of the time unless things get really tough.0 -
Well today was an eye opener. I wore my HRM for the first time while doing my weights circuits and found I was consistently around 80% for that. I had been underestimating my calorie burn for it, that is for sure. Elliptical I stayed mostly around 87% and oddly, on the treadmill running around 12km/hr , no incline. I hit 90-91% for much of the 25 minutes but it was not uncomfortable at all compared to when it spiked to that on the elliptical. I wonder why. I stopped bothering with my polar last year as I got fed up of strapping the thing on and did not want to be fretting over my heart rate and fussing over precise calorie burns. Still, good to know what is happening a year later for my workouts.0
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Well today was an eye opener. I wore my HRM for the first time while doing my weights circuits and found I was consistently around 80% for that. I had been underestimating my calorie burn for it, that is for sure. Elliptical I stayed mostly around 87% and oddly, on the treadmill running around 12km/hr , no incline. I hit 90-91% for much of the 25 minutes but it was not uncomfortable at all compared to when it spiked to that on the elliptical. I wonder why. I stopped bothering with my polar last year as I got fed up of strapping the thing on and did not want to be fretting over my heart rate and fussing over precise calorie burns. Still, good to know what is happening a year later for my workouts.
Well, be aware the formula for estimating calories burned based on HR is based on Aerobic exercise, and steady-state, meaning same HR for 2-5 min.
Lifting is ANaerobic and non-steady-state, the energy source is different and doesn't rely on oxygen at all, therefore not based on blood flow for it, therefore HRM calculations of lifting calories is totally inflated.
What wearing it during lifting will tell you is if your muscles were fresh enough to actual push hard enough to rocket the HR up.
If you found one lifting workout was hard, you might think that's good, but the HR will tell you it didn't reach the normal highs, and therefore you weren't pushing as hard.
Though you'd usually notice this too from not doing the same reps or weight as previous time.
Difference in HR% and how it feels, different muscles being used. Muscles for Elliptical don't sound as trained as your running muscles. Or more engagement of more muscles means your lung capacity met it's limit.0
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