Joint pain anyone? How do you deal?
duckykissy
Posts: 285 Member
I'm not sure what is going on, but today my hands, knees and feet are just in agony. My knuckles and knees are visibly swollen. Painkillers and anti-inflammatory have dulled some of the pain and I've pushed myself to at least do the stretches my PT gave me, but I feel like that's all I have.
How do you guys deal with joint pains and push through crappy days?
How do you guys deal with joint pains and push through crappy days?
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Firstly, most anti-inflammatory meds like ibuprofen kill the good bacteria in your gut which makes up the majority of your immune system. I would steer clear. When I switched meds from Synthroid to Naturethroid the majority of my joint pain went away. Now the only time my joints act up is usually when I eat gluten, or when I do massive amounts of heavy weighted squats (I squat to 250lbs). I take Curcumin supplements.. its a derivative of turmeric, but it has AMAZING anti-inflammatory effects. I also take tart cherry on occasion after a rough workout.0
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I drink Pukka Three Ginger Tea, which is actually ginger, turmeric and galangal. I find that helps, ginger and turmeric are natural anti-inflammatories (no idea if galangal is). I also have fresh ginger and turmeric in the house - mainly because I like them and cook with them, but I make extra effort to have them when I'm feeling particularly achey.
Like MmmDrop, my joint pain is mainly flared by gluten or heavier activity. So I'm gluten free, and as for activity, I have to take rest time and I have my tea, extra ginger etc to try and pre-empt the impact (I usually suffer most the morning after).0 -
Firstly, most anti-inflammatory meds like ibuprofen kill the good bacteria in your gut which makes up the majority of your immune system. I would steer clear. When I switched meds from Synthroid to Naturethroid the majority of my joint pain went away. Now the only time my joints act up is usually when I eat gluten, or when I do massive amounts of heavy weighted squats (I squat to 250lbs). I take Curcumin supplements.. its a derivative of turmeric, but it has AMAZING anti-inflammatory effects. I also take tart cherry on occasion after a rough workout.
I've never heard of any anti-inflammatory drugs killing off bacterial flora. Do you have some links for this? I'd love to read more.
I think it may be possible that wheat set me off. I recently went wheat free and since my eczema has cleared up I may have an allergy to wheat. Is joint pain a sign of wheat allergies or gluten intolerance/coeliac disease ?0 -
duckykissy wrote: »I think it may be possible that wheat set me off. I recently went wheat free and since my eczema has cleared up I may have an allergy to wheat. Is joint pain a sign of wheat allergies or gluten intolerance/coeliac disease ?
I have been tested for coeliacs (and a whole raft of other things, including RA), anyway joint pain can be a symptom of sensitivity to gluten but being sensitive to gluten doesn't necessarily mean you have coeliac disease. I tested negative but I have a clear sensitivity to it (fwiw, I also react badly to soya milk/desserts/yoghurts etc). Hypothyroidism is an autoimmune condition and so one may be more prone to other autoimmune issues, such as gluten sensitivity/intolerance. There are quite a few articles on it floating around on the web. When I asked my GP about gluten sensitivity, having noticed it in myself and trying to work out if it could be the case despite being negative for coeliac disease, this was the explanation he gave and he said it would not be unusual due to the autoimmune nature of it all.
I also have to manage other things in my diet to prevent hypo symptoms, not just joint pain but also tiredness, muscle ache etc. I limit caffeine and red meat, eat more wholegrains (not too difficult seeing as I don't have gluten anymore and not a big fan of potatoes), more food with a low glycaemic load... this was under the guidance of my GP and it has helped a lot, I am one of the many who don't see symptoms disappear on Levothyroxine alone.0 -
I'm fortunately one of the very lucky ones. Levo has been amazingly effective for me and I haven't had too much issue with dosage. So fortunately my joint pain is quite rare, just bad when it happens. I also can't help but think - "I've got **** to do," "I'm too young for this."
I also got tested for coeliacs about 3 or 4 years ago? That came out negative so I haven't really thought about giving up gluten. At the moment though, my only gluten is really from my oats in breakfast so I may try going with out it for a few weeks.0 -
I also have constant pain and have been using acupuncture to help. I combine Eastern and Western medicine and use less Motrin and tylenol and no narcotics. This is not related to my thyroid. P.T. is also helpful. I bought a great bed, hand made, special order and that helps also (not great for the budget). Just keep going, slow and steady and no pushing myself to overdo. I also have sarcoidosis with fatigue and back problems. Keep going and enjoy what you can do and what you have. Feel better....0
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Hi there. Most mornings I wake up feeling like a bus hit me. Once I get moving most of this goes away. I've had cortisone shots in both my shoulders. Carpal tunnel surgery in one hand, they other now needs to be done as well. I've had trigger finger surgery as week. I broke an ankle 2 years ago that is still blue and gives me grief when I attempt serious exercise. I have had surgery on the tendons in that foot as well.
So do I have an answer for what do you do for joint pain? I seem to go to the extreme. But I do agree, drop the gluten. To much dairy can have an affect as well. Some folks have issues with cruciferous vegetables. Too much calcium can hinder the amount of thyroid meds your body absorbs.
I have used curcumin in the past for 1/2 a year. It worked for a while & then stopped. I may try it again. I am allergic to nsaids so no aspirin, ibuprofen etc. Eating low inflammatory foods. AND getting off sugar!!! I can't stress enough how sugar makes me ache like crazy.
And also knowing that this is now you. Limitations of an older person in a young body. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and move forward. Don't stop, don't give up. Find what works for you because everyone is different.
Find a thyroid buddy. Someone you can talk to who understands. My spouse is unsupportive. If he can't see blood or something broken... he doesn't get it!!!
Don't settle for a regular GP's answer to your questions always get more opinions!!!
And best of luck to you to find the answers you need!!!0 -
Hypothyroidism is an autoimmune condition and so one may be more prone to other autoimmune issues, such as gluten sensitivity/intolerance. There are quite a few articles on it floating around on the web. When I asked my GP about gluten sensitivity, having noticed it in myself and trying to work out if it could be the case despite being negative for coeliac disease, this was the explanation he gave and he said it would not be unusual due to the autoimmune nature of it all.
I don't think hypothyroidism is auto-immune in nature (like folks that had thyroid cancer or other causes). Though the most common reason for hypothyroidism (Hashimoto's) is autoimmune in nature. Just wanted to clarify that.
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lindsey1979 wrote: »I don't think hypothyroidism is auto-immune in nature (like folks that had thyroid cancer or other causes). Though the most common reason for hypothyroidism (Hashimoto's) is autoimmune in nature. Just wanted to clarify that.
Sorry, quoting my doctor, probably missed a beat there
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I am really impressed by your doctor. None of the ones I have dealt with in the past was even ready to admit that a sensitivity is real thing.jumblejups wrote: »I have been tested for coeliacs (and a whole raft of other things, including RA), anyway joint pain can be a symptom of sensitivity to gluten but being sensitive to gluten doesn't necessarily mean you have coeliac disease. I tested negative but I have a clear sensitivity to it (fwiw, I also react badly to soya milk/desserts/yoghurts etc). Hypothyroidism is an autoimmune condition and so one may be more prone to other autoimmune issues, such as gluten sensitivity/intolerance. There are quite a few articles on it floating around on the web. When I asked my GP about gluten sensitivity, having noticed it in myself and trying to work out if it could be the case despite being negative for coeliac disease, this was the explanation he gave and he said it would not be unusual due to the autoimmune nature of it all.
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I used to be in a real state. My knees, my feet, my hands were always painful. Moving was hard. 10 years ago I needed walking sticks, getting to the school gates to meet the grand children was a real ordeal. I used to do as I was told, take pain relief before activity and when it helped less and less I stopped taking it. I did not know salicylate the active ingredient in many is toxic and also comes in foods like maize starch which is high in the stuff and used in tablets as binders. I gradually became pain free and my mobility improved. Levo finally saw the pain problem off. My right shoulder had been the first and now my last pain issue.
All the best.0 -
jumblejups wrote: »I drink Pukka Three Ginger Tea, which is actually ginger, turmeric and galangal. I find that helps, ginger and turmeric are natural anti-inflammatories (no idea if galangal is). I also have fresh ginger and turmeric in the house - mainly because I like them and cook with them, but I make extra effort to have them when I'm feeling particularly achey.
Like MmmDrop, my joint pain is mainly flared by gluten or heavier activity. So I'm gluten free, and as for activity, I have to take rest time and I have my tea, extra ginger etc to try and pre-empt the impact (I usually suffer most the morning after).
I have never heard of this type of tea, but I will definitely give it a try! I have aches once in a while, and I have honestly never thought it was Hashi-Moto related? I try to not take any aspirin, Tylenol etc... I stretch and sit in the sauna as much as I can and I try to get thru the pains here and there. This thread is helpful, thank you! 0 -
allergictodiets wrote: »
I am really impressed by your doctor. None of the ones I have dealt with in the past was even ready to admit that a sensitivity is real thing.jumblejups wrote: »I have been tested for coeliacs (and a whole raft of other things, including RA), anyway joint pain can be a symptom of sensitivity to gluten but being sensitive to gluten doesn't necessarily mean you have coeliac disease. I tested negative but I have a clear sensitivity to it (fwiw, I also react badly to soya milk/desserts/yoghurts etc). Hypothyroidism is an autoimmune condition and so one may be more prone to other autoimmune issues, such as gluten sensitivity/intolerance. There are quite a few articles on it floating around on the web. When I asked my GP about gluten sensitivity, having noticed it in myself and trying to work out if it could be the case despite being negative for coeliac disease, this was the explanation he gave and he said it would not be unusual due to the autoimmune nature of it all.
I think that's in part because it depends on the reason why you're hypothyroid -- some are auto-immune in nature and sensitivity would come into play and some are not auto-immune in nature so sensitivity won't come into play necessarily.
For those of us that have Hashi's, you'll see us talk about sensitivity quite a bit -- many of us have found that gluten sets off a "flare-up" of hypo and so we generally avoid it. Not anything as serious as celiac, but enough so that quite a few of us notice we feel a lot better and don't go hypo as much when we cut it out of our diets. Other common causes are casein and lactose (both in milk/dairy products) and certain cruciferous vegetables when eaten raw especially. That's the theory behind some of the "thyroid diets" out there.
For many of us that have an auto-immune cause like Hashi's, often try an elimination diet to see what, if any, sensitivities we have. I personal cut gluten for that reason but don't seem to see any issue with dairy (though I don't generally drink milk - -just full fat dairy like cheese and cream).
It it very sad how many doctors don't know much about thyroid, let alone Hashi's -- who insist on keeping in the ranges when people have antibodies which mean that their effective range may be a lot lower than the gross range shown in the blood tests. I, for example, don't get relief from hypo symptoms until I'm in the upper third of the "normal" range. If I'm in the lower third, I still feel awful. And there are tons of doctors (even endos) out there that will refuse to treat because I was "within range". Many of us have found greater help with MDs that are thyroid specialists specifically (far and few between) or MDs that take a functional or integrative approach.
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Even the endocrinologist I met was incompetent.
Food sensitivities are a real pain and probably are indicative of many problems. I don't know if this will help anyone discover their personal issues. Sharla Race a British researcher put together a book "change your diet change your life", in which she goes into many ways in which foods can make problems for you. She also has the site, "Foodcanmakeyouill", which provides much the same information and is free supported by the sales of the book.
It comes to something when using cooking oil at too high temperatures can taint the foods we prepare and may cause issues in some. In this situation it is not the food specifically it is the method of preparation.
All the best to every one in finding their own answers.0 -
@lindsey1979 - I have Hashi's. Endos #1 and #2 did not even want to test for gluten allergy. Endo #3 did but she was satisfied with the fact that the test was negative.0
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Allergictodiets -- I know it was something that I discussed fairly thoroughly with my thyroid specialist (after seeing 5 previous doctors -- including 2 endos that were no help). One of the first things he suggested was following an elimination-type diet -- he specifically recommended Paleo as a good starting point, but said there were others ones out there as well (I was already familiar with Paleo, so that's where the discussion ended). I told him actually I'd gone Paleo 8 months prior or so and it was the ONLY thing thus far I'd found to help with my condition (I wasn't diagnosed at that point). It didn't solve everything, but it was the first thing that had shown any improvement. My periods of fatigue were probably worst symptom and after going Paleo, I found them to not be as often, not as intense or last as long -- now I realize that these were hypo "flare-ups".
At that point, he said we could do a gluten sensitivity test but he didn't recommend it because (1) false negatives were common for people without extreme allergies (i.e. celiacs) and (2) since I hadn't been eating gluten for some time, it was highly possible that I didn't have enough antibodies, if any, to be showing up on the test. So, I'd have to start eating gluten again, so my body would react to it in order for the test to be helpful. And since I'd already had some symptom alleviation from it, it seemed silly to have the blood test. He said I could always re-introduce it if I wanted and we could take the test if I was noticing more symptoms again, but I was pretty happy to just not eat it anymore for the most part.
This is one of the reasons he suggested just trying an elimination diet and then adding back in one thing at a time to see how I felt after a month or so of the re-introduction (that's how I found I'm fine with dairy -- and now eat more of a Primal diet than strict Paleo). It's a more painstaking way to do it, but it's cheaper since no tests are involved and he found that there were a lot of allergy testing that wasn't well done in many places -- it was an area where they are still improving considerably, especially for people that have lower levels of intolerance (i.e. not a full blown allergy, but a sensitivity or intolerance).0 -
I mainly manage joint pain with rest and massage. Sadly I too found out that moderate-strenuous exercise causes unbelievable pain. I'll use ibuprofen when it's really bad, I haven't heard anything negative about the gut bacteria connection. I do know too much can cause stomach bleeding.
I also picked up an oriental balm that smells like Christmas at a natural-path store that I'll rub in and it does wonders.0 -
duckykissy wrote: »I'm fortunately one of the very lucky ones. Levo has been amazingly effective for me and I haven't had too much issue with dosage. So fortunately my joint pain is quite rare, just bad when it happens. I also can't help but think - "I've got **** to do," "I'm too young for this."
I also got tested for coeliacs about 3 or 4 years ago? That came out negative so I haven't really thought about giving up gluten. At the moment though, my only gluten is really from my oats in breakfast so I may try going with out it for a few weeks.
Oats don't contain gluten.
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However, oats can be contaminated with gluten when they mill the oats on machines that have milled wheat, barley or rye. Bob's Red Mill has dedicated oats-only milling machines.0
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SanteMulberry wrote: »Oats don't contain gluten.SanteMulberry wrote: »However, oats can be contaminated with gluten when they mill the oats on machines that have milled wheat, barley or rye. Bob's Red Mill has dedicated oats-only milling machines.
Exactly. Oats may be processed with wheat, and mine possibly were because the package says "may contain wheat, gluten". Wheat free oats are kind of not a possibility here (too rural, I can't find a local gf source, and postage is expensive!) and I'm not the biggest fan of eggs, so I'm still eating my cheaper rolled oats that may or may not have traces of wheat and therefore possibly gluten. However I haven't had joint issues since my first post so maybe it was the straight wheat I had and my oats are okay? (Hopefully?)
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On my last visit to the lab (Dyna Care (Canadian)) for blood work, they had a big poster up on the wall about new testing available for food allergies/sensitivities. They had 2 price ranges; expensive & OMG! I'm hoping my insurance company will cover at least some of it. I'm putting my pennies away to get it done. I've been in so much pain lately, I'm getting little sleep and it has become a vicious circle of the less sleep the more pain. (I work nights too so that isn't exactly helping the whole situation) The only thing I am grateful for is I'm NOT gaining weight.... thank goodness :~)0
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My aches & pains got way better once my thyroid levels reached the "normal" range. I do yoga, get massages, and have an electric mattress pad.0
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All my blood work comes back "normal", I am Gluten free due to food allergies.....but I have joint pain and fatigue that is kicking my butt.....thank goodness for makeup to cover the dark circles.....my GP acts like I'm a hypochondriac.....I know there is something going on, but all the tests come back normal: RA, lupus, hypothyroidism, etc. ... I would love suggestions!0
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All my blood work comes back "normal", I am Gluten free due to food allergies.....but I have joint pain and fatigue that is kicking my butt.....thank goodness for makeup to cover the dark circles.....my GP acts like I'm a hypochondriac.....I know there is something going on, but all the tests come back normal: RA, lupus, hypothyroidism, etc. ... I would love suggestions!
Get a referral to an endocrinologist.0 -
Are tests reliable for diagnosis in every situation? I'm new to hypothyroidism and have read loads in recent weeks. In England there is a very narrow view of diagnosis and a treatment that's based on what "nice" approve. I've come across doctor and patient accounts in England where the test results don't match the symptoms. I'm reading that many of our doctors don't read the full range of symptoms because they have become so dependent on bloods. It's clear there are so many symptoms and results in blood are part of the whole management. Are you having the right tests done? I think an endocrinologist is the way to go. I'm off to a psychologist next month because when they didn't acknowledge my pain and I persisted it was all they could offer. I asked for all my blood tests to be reviewed by both my oncologist and general medical consultant and for them to talk me through every result. I had to sit in front of a number of docs feel judged because they didn't see the symptoms. It seems amazing to me know I have a diagnosis that none of the doctors I saw over months saw the symptoms even though I was articulating textbook evidence. I'm feeling marginally less joint pain about 5 weeks in to levothyroxine. I'm very unfit but am trying to get a small amount of regular exercise. I'm not sure I trust the GP or hospital to resolve everything so am keeping a diary and logging every symptom, food and mood. Going to use it with docs and see if I can spot patterns or if some food or situationso make it easy or worse. I think we all have to find our way through this and I believe the symptoms outweigh the science at times. The combined wisdom of others in our situation is an important resource, doctors know what they are taught in the country they trained, not all are open to questions from patients, but question we must. Hope you find a root to feeling better soon
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Salicylate sensitivity will not show up any distinguishing links on any food lists/diaries because it is cumulative and or fluctuates because our intake differs on a daily basis. This is the active ingredient in aspirin but also it is in oranges apples pineapples berries, tea coffee, dark green veg dark coloured veg almost everything, including moulds and mildews so that accounts for yeast too. Living with it is hell, take it from me. symptoms from joint pain to indigestion, muscle skeletal issues and thousands more. Had a bad day. Crashed, heaving having gently sniffed a sensitive washing liquid. Not able to go to normal places and do normal things. it is a real life restriction.
Info at Salicylate Sensitivity.com or simply google salicylate sensitivity.0 -
And maybe this is why I am doing fairly well on the NP. At the time I started taking it I also started the LC WOE =Atkins. I eliminated all carbohydrates other than low starch plant based. Having done this same thing years ago for 10 years prior to coming down with the thyroid issue I am not sure how this all fits into things as far as feeling better. But am not going to argut it at all because we are all different.
I do remember sitting in doctor office on my first visit almost in tears because I was in so much all over pain,especially joints before he did put me back on the thyroid meds. Levo. Even so the Levo helped but did not make me feel good. this dang thyroid is such a pain. Literally.0 -
I don't eat any grain esp not wheat and really watch the sugar. I juice and make a mean green/dr oz juice. I have Hashimotos so for me inflammation is a real issue.0
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I have the inflammation too. I have beem wheat free since the end of November and very low carb. Almost always under 20 actual carbs I do not count by net carb.0
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I did low carb for while, but for me, I found it really wasn't the low carb that helped so much but the elimination of wheat and most grain products (whether from gluten or otherwise). I also think the low carb helped because I did have insulin resistance -- which my doc thinks is a result of the long untreated thyroid problem since I've never been that overweight (35 lbs at my heaviest and I'm 5'9").
What ultimately ended up working best for me was a carb cycling routine. This was in particular because I lift heavy and good carbs are needed for optimal muscle recovery after heavy lifting sessions. So, I eat quite a few carbs (just no grains) on lifting days and then very low carb on non-lifting/rest days. This also helps to reset your hormones like leptin which you will reduce over time during a prolonged caloric deficit (which triggers your hunger response).
I was actually quite surprised to see this work so well. I also didn't have to take rest weeks nearly as often. On just low carb and lifting, I'd get run down more quickly -- just feel super fatigued like I was almost getting sick. I think i was starting to go hypo and it appears that this is a risk for low carb and hypothyroid (though I didn't know it at the time).
So, if you're open to trying something different, you may want to look into a carb cycling program like leangains.0
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