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Read everything on the board - look at the success stories. It works. I'm losing weight. I'm not doing mad amounts of cardio, I'm not underestimating my food because I weight it all (or measure liquids) when I can. The typical dieter does overestimate theit 'burn' and underestimate their food intake, but most of us on here aren't typical dieters, so I don't agree that you have to undereat to make up for this. The TDEE method works for us. I don't even care what my burn is as I KNOW what my TDEE is from actually eating calories and seeing if I gain or lose weight!!!0
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One of the problematic things with reading so much - not that reading is bad - but it really can cause you to overthink things and we will tend to compare ourselves with others and think that we should be having the same success as someone else. The best way to approach this is to just try it out for yourself and adjust your numbers as you get into it and see how your body responds. Like Modern said, there are tons of articles, blogs, and success stories on the website - you don't have to look far to find them. I didn't read all the way back through this post to remember all of your history, but I do remember you are wanting to do a reset. Both of these scenarios you listed above are not anything like a reset - so obviously you'll be eating a lot more than someone who is not doing a reset. The first scenario is someone who weighs 135 and does very minimal exercise 20 minutes 2x a week and eats 1600 calories - this is probably right on for this person and her activity level! In the second scenario, the person is clearly under eating at 1200 cals and has slowed her metabolism - she will soon crash.
My point is, figure your numbers for your stats and your activity level. Be honest with your activity level. Once you have your TDEE calculated for your true activity level, you can eat up to that amount or decide if you just want to start out with 15% deficit. You can increase as slow as you want - you don't have to eat 2400 all at one time - just ease into and see how you feel. Your results won't be like others who have similar stats - because you're different and have a different activity level. As long as you are weighing and measuring your foods, you won't be underestimating. The people that underestimate are those that are not accurately recording foods.0 -
One more thing...have you calculated your TDEE using the Scooby site to see if it lines up with what your BodyMedia is telling you? I think I mentioned before, my BMF did overestimate my calorie burn and I don't wear it anymore for that reason. For most, they are pretty accurate, but I have seen where they did not work well for some. Keeping this in mind, you can use Scooby to calculate as well and see if the numbers are similar. BMF is really good at measuring your daily activity (NEAT) - something we all tend to underestimate as it is outside of formal exercise and we just aren't always sure how to count it. But at minimum, I would go with the numbers Scooby gives you as your TDEE and 15% deficit and work upwards to those calories goals slowly.0
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Scooby s said 1945 for me.
Alan Aragon's calculator says 1750.
Thanks for all of the replies.
I don't really need to add them slowly since I too an 11 day diet break (cruise) and ate above maintenance and gained 10 lbs. so I was continuing my cut.
I am reading stories here. And there and there so many mixed messages amoung even professionals. Kwim?
I was up .2 lbs this morning from the day before. Which never happens after I get back on my program. I always have a big drop overnight (2-3lbs). So why the increase? Hence my panicking.0 -
BodyMedia is not all it's hyped up to be for about half the users. The sensors don't work well. And for non-step based stuff like lifting, those extra sensors don't do squat.
To see if the sensor's work well for you, look at your daily graph where it shows calories burned per minutes, not METS, calories.
Find average for sleeping time. Like if it bounces between 1.1 and 1.2 evenly, you know it's trying to show 1.15.
1.15 x 1440 = 1656 BMR it's using for example.
Now find some movie time with sitting not moving, but awake.
What is the average calorie burn time per minute there?
Do the same math, should be higher by decent amount.
Those comments about over estimating burns and underestimating eaten - those are based on what perspective?
Several studies have indeed shown that in free form logging - logging at end of day, or when you remember, estimating quantities, ect - does indeed result in under-estimating.
Is MFP going to help with that?
I'd love to see their research that people overestimate what is burned, and by how much.
I'm not shocked how many get a Fitbit and first day had no idea they burned calories sleeping. Their only awareness of calorie levels is eating or seeing advice to eat 1200 to lose weight.
With no concept of what was eaten by themselves to gain weight. No idea at all of calorie levels.
I do know that almost everyone but maybe 3 people that have used that IIFYM's to see estimated daily burn have found it badly underestimates their daily burn based on actual results, here on MFP when I've seen ones comment. And results trump estimates.
As to the research that eating at a reasonable deficit is better than an extreme deficit.
All you have to do is start reading the start of any study on weight loss, and it seems no matter what aspect they are specifically researching, they comment out of hand regarding the fact of adaptive thermogenesis is going to happen, or to explain why it seems it didn't in unusual cases.
Here's comments on a bunch of studies. The one that shows no slowdown, they figured as commented above - the poor food logging meant they didn't have as much deficit as they were supposed to have - basically saving themselves.
http://fampra.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/2/196.full
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_cmltmQ6A
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-loss-616251
Oh, your panic on weight gain of a mere 0.2 lbs, which I'm betting is actually within the inaccuracy limits of the scale anyway.
Be prepared for mental and emotional trouble if that panics you. Just realistic warning.
Was today a valid weigh-in day? If you want to weigh every day and they aren't valid, then you'll need 2 months worth of all that noisy data to actually get a trend line to try to figure something out.
Use only valid days, and as a woman, 4 weeks will be good enough.
Valid weigh-in day to minimize known expected water fluctuations.
Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.
And always do the math for any fast changes to prove to yourself they are merely water weight, can't be fat.
LBs of change x 3500 / days of change = difference between eating level and TDEE to cause that change.
So it would take eating 250 calories OVER maintenance or true potential TDEE to slowly gain 1 whole pound. And if good lifting routine, not even all fat.
Reread that to appreciate that fact.0 -
Thank you for your reply and info.
According to my BMF data...I burn between 1.0 and 1.3 while sleeping and 1.1 and 1.2 while sitting watching tv at night....So does that mean the sensors are off?
And according to IIFYM my BMR is 1491 and my TDEE is 2050.
I do weigh daily and have for 2 1/2 years....it was a way to desensitize my fluctuations and understand them better...which is why I know that the 10 lbs I gained during my cruise isn't real. I also know that I should have dropped at least 2 of those since I had 2 full days of deficit under my belt. I'm not going by others...I'm going by my own data that I've gathered. I'm not upset about the .2 lbs But my past history shows that I'm not losing the water weight from the cruise. Why would that be? I only really look at my weekly Tues weigh ins (though Weds is my lowest day). And I am post TOM so should be have flushed out all fluids by now.
Also, lifting.....I've been following ICF 5x5 (I've switched a few times over the 2+years but come back to this) the whole time. I've exhausted any newbie gains I may have had (though I doubt much since I've been lifting for 18 years). I've not been in a calorie surplus so I'm not gaining muscle....just trying to retain what I have. I suppose recomping could be happening.
So, I have all these numbers...from all of these professionals. And my own data. And advice from everywhere. And in the end....I can only just pick one and try it out.
I'm not looking for fast and furious. It's taken me 2 1/2 years to lose 75 lbs. I've changed my whole life. I'm in this for life. I don't do anything I can't do for the rest of my life so I'm not trying to speed it up. Just looking to find a consistent pattern and consistent calorie level that won't kill me. I've yet to be able to find that.
I talk to men who lift weights (low end of bf levels...trying for single digits) that are eating 1500 cals a day and need to cut more or add cardio. I know I'm not that and I can't compare to that but in my head they are all screaming....the scale would move if you're in a true deficit.
And reading this
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/
And this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1wIlDVO9w4
The beginning is most pertinent here but the whole Q&A is interesting.
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If EM2WL doesn't feel right (TDEE-15%), then don't follow it. It appears you are trying to find information which fits with the low cal dieting that much of the industry sells and sells and sells. I have done that in the past and I regained my weight over and over. I'm now doing this and I'm happy. I eat a lot more than a lot of people and still lose weight. And I know how to eat at maintenance because I was there for a while and it's something I can do for life.
And I'm doing a cut at 1925 (and had luck previously with a cut at 2150 - but I'm working out less now), a female friend is doing a cut at 3000 calories, and you can find all the information you want to fit with your own mindset. Seriously, I would figure out what you want to do and just try it out.0 -
I'm really not trying to find info on one over the other. Just info.
I appreciate all of the feedback that I've gotten. I don't think hearing different opinions is harmful and I'm sorry if I've offended you or anyone else. I'm also not saying this won't work. I'm just trying to dig through opinions to get to studies/facts /data.0 -
And FYI I hit 2000 cals yesterday and had a 2 lb drop overnight.
I am not trying to be difficult. Just fact finding.0 -
Last winter my tdee was 2030/day after a 12 week reset last summer a three month cut in the fall a 3 month bulk my tdee is 2800/day. Which means I'll be cutting this spring at 2500...500 more than my cut calories last year. If you are in the right head space em2wl really works!0
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Thank you for your reply and info.
According to my BMF data...I burn between 1.0 and 1.3 while sleeping and 1.1 and 1.2 while sitting watching tv at night....So does that mean the sensors are off?
And according to IIFYM my BMR is 1491 and my TDEE is 2050.
I do weigh daily and have for 2 1/2 years....it was a way to desensitize my fluctuations and understand them better...which is why I know that the 10 lbs I gained during my cruise isn't real. I also know that I should have dropped at least 2 of those since I had 2 full days of deficit under my belt. I'm not going by others...I'm going by my own data that I've gathered. I'm not upset about the .2 lbs But my past history shows that I'm not losing the water weight from the cruise. Why would that be? I only really look at my weekly Tues weigh ins (though Weds is my lowest day). And I am post TOM so should be have flushed out all fluids by now.
Also, lifting.....I've been following ICF 5x5 (I've switched a few times over the 2+years but come back to this) the whole time. I've exhausted any newbie gains I may have had (though I doubt much since I've been lifting for 18 years). I've not been in a calorie surplus so I'm not gaining muscle....just trying to retain what I have. I suppose recomping could be happening.
So, I have all these numbers...from all of these professionals. And my own data. And advice from everywhere. And in the end....I can only just pick one and try it out.
I'm not looking for fast and furious. It's taken me 2 1/2 years to lose 75 lbs. I've changed my whole life. I'm in this for life. I don't do anything I can't do for the rest of my life so I'm not trying to speed it up. Just looking to find a consistent pattern and consistent calorie level that won't kill me. I've yet to be able to find that.
I talk to men who lift weights (low end of bf levels...trying for single digits) that are eating 1500 cals a day and need to cut more or add cardio. I know I'm not that and I can't compare to that but in my head they are all screaming....the scale would move if you're in a true deficit.
And reading this
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/
And thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1wIlDVO9w4
The beginning is most pertinent here but the whole Q&A is interesting.
So BMF has your BMR as 1 & 1.3 x 1440 = 1440 to 1872.
That's a huge range, you need to find the lowest low average while sleeping, not the average for the whole night, when you move, warmup, ect.
RMR as 1.1 & 1.2 x 1440 = 1584 to 1728, which sounds about right, as RMR is higher than BMR since you are awake.
You'll notice even in that Lyle commentary the type of people he is talking about, but he still references the fact of metabolic efficiency or slowdown that can occur.
He even admitted that to my comment in the comments section about the study I referenced.
The initial review of the effect is indeed exaggerated and blamed when it's probably not the case.
The question is - if it is indeed the case it's happened, and true you could indeed keep eating less and less to get around the effect and eventually lose weight....
Will you adhere to even lower eating levels reach goal weight?
Will you sustain lower eating levels to keep it during maintenance?
Does it have to be that way only?
And how badly is body improvements from exercise effected for all the hard work done in a workout?
No. As so many in this group can prove.
It doesn't have to be that way.
Extreme deficit to get around what the body is trying to do to protect itself isn't needed.
You can work with the body and get a better response.
Also be aware of the audience for that video discussion. It's not you yet.
Someday - but not right now.0 -
From what I'm seeing...my cals/minute burn is higher when I'm sleeping than when I'm sitting watching tv. I don't know how to share it though.
Even if I account for 15% margin of error in the BMF it still puts my burn at about 2257. So I'm eating close to that with 1963 yesterdays cals.
I don't think aggressive deficits have to be the only way. Recomping has always been an option, I know that.
And what I'm realizing now is that TDEE is fluid....it's a TOTAL daily energy expenditure...and as you eat more you can move more since you have energy to move.
I think I was confusing BMR with that in my head...even though I certainly know the definition. BMR decreases on a cut. Eating at a smaller deficit is trying to minimize that so that TDEE will increase. I see now what you're all saying. Makes sense.
I still don't know how to correct BMfit armband. I do get hot at night while sleeping (I am 41 so maybe starting perimenopause). So that may account for the increase. And also, during the day my temp runs (has always run) low...just now taking it, it reads 97.7.
I appreciate everyone coming in to talk this out. I can't be the only person questioning things and maybe we are helping someone else just by chatting about it.
I want you all to know that I am not disagreeing with any of you. Nor am I set in stone on any one view point. I'm just gathering. Reading. Discussing options. And I am running this experiment too.
I've been at this for 2 1/2 years. I have only lost on average .6lbs per week in that time (75 total!!!). So I am in this for the long haul and I really am not in a rush (clearly lol). I have life to live and events to attend and I finally don't let food control me.
I've eaten what I wanted in these years just a bit less.
So keep the conversation going. If anyone has anything to add.0 -
mspunkyone wrote: »Last winter my tdee was 2030/day after a 12 week reset last summer a three month cut in the fall a 3 month bulk my tdee is 2800/day. Which means I'll be cutting this spring at 2500...500 more than my cut calories last year. If you are in the right head space em2wl really works!
Nice. More muscle takes more energy to move. That sounds like a successful bulk!!!
Thanks for chiming in!
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And a 2.4 pound drop on the scale overnight. Still up 6 pounds from prevacation weight. But on almost 2000 cal I'm very happy so far.0
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So on days that you burn more, do I eat more? I shoveled snow for 2 hours. Lifted. And cleaned a house (3 hours straight cleaning ). Just wondering0
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So this and several other methods could really be called Weekly TDEE deficit methods.
Because MFP is doing a literal daily TDEE method.
Base goal with no exercise included - if you picked the correct activity level.
- So TDEE for that day with a deficit. Which may or may not be reasonable.
- Then you exercise and log it, so now TDEE went up, eating level went up, same deficit.
The Weekly TDEE deficit method takes planned workouts and daily activity for the week, and averages it back out daily. Then takes a deficit off. Same amount eaten daily.
If you do more than what was planned, you would indeed eat more and log it, less the same 15% that you took in general for calories.
If you missed a workout, you'd skip 100 cal that day, if you made it up, eat 100 back.
The idea is to always eat appropriately for your level of activity.
If trying to maintain, then correct amount there in general.
If in a diet, reasonable amount there.
And averaging things out over the week works just fine. Rarely would you find a 24 hr slot of time where your actual eating level was less than your BMR, if you picked the right level.0 -
Gotcha. That's what I was thinking. Definitely hungry today.0
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So I'm going to post my link to my journal in case anyone wants to follow it or offer suggestions/criticisms/ support. Or share their journey with me...
http://forums.eatmore2weighless.com/showthread.php?tid=119120 -
Wanted to update any lurkers....Weight is holding steady at 185.....I'm eating just over 2k a day with 1 day just over 3k (bday party). Lifting 3 x's a week.
I'm going to stay at this calorie range and see what happens next sunday weigh in.
Then I'll probably ask for advice here...on what to do. LOL0 -
Reviving.
Should I adjust cals down on sedentary/rest days?
Trying to keep deficit around 400 a day (give or take a few).0
