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How do we know when we're done losing - even if we don't want to be?
pawoodhull
Posts: 1,759 Member
We all know that with WLS we are told we will lose about 60-70% of our excess weight. at my lowest I have lost 57.5%. As some of you know, I got down to 222 and then through the holidays bounced back up to 232, all just plain bad eating. The first week I was "back on track" I lost 5, so was at 227. Since then I have bounced between that 227 and 230. I haven't lost anything since September and I'm wondering if I'm done. If I need to accept where I am. If my body isn't going to let me go any further. Frankly, I'm not sure if I can accept this but I don't seem to be able to get to my goal of being below 200. Confused, frustrated and a little sad.
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pawoodhull wrote: »We all know that with WLS we are told we will lose about 60-70% of our excess weight. at my lowest I have lost 57.5%. As some of you know, I got down to 222 and then through the holidays bounced back up to 232, all just plain bad eating. The first week I was "back on track" I lost 5, so was at 227. Since then I have bounced between that 227 and 230. I haven't lost anything since September and I'm wondering if I'm done. If I need to accept where I am. If my body isn't going to let me go any further. Frankly, I'm not sure if I can accept this but I don't seem to be able to get to my goal of being below 200. Confused, frustrated and a little sad.
What is your activity level? Muscle mass will consume more calories so exercise can help make the difference. WLS is only a good start we have to finish it by changing our lifestyle and eating habits. People that eat 3000 calories a day and stay thin are doing something to use the calories, metabolism is part of it the rest is activity level. You won't find a over weight marathon runner it's not possible. Weight lifting athletes eat 3000 plus calories a day and have a 7% body fat ratio.
Please join me in going to the gym
Randy
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pawoodhull wrote: »
What is your activity level? Muscle mass will consume more calories so exercise can help make the difference. WLS is only a good start we have to finish it by changing our lifestyle and eating habits. People that eat 3000 calories a day and stay thin are doing something to use the calories, metabolism is part of it the rest is activity level. You won't find a over weight marathon runner it's not possible. Weight lifting athletes eat 3000 plus calories a day and have a 7% body fat ratio.
Please join me in going to the gym
Randy
Randy, I walk daily and will fully admit to not being very active beyond that. I do have a pilates machine at home and do not use that as much as I could. Yes I have spinal arthritis and arthritis in every joint from the lower spine down along with bone spurs in my left knee and both heals and I injur easily, but to be honest here, I very simply hate exercise. We have a gym here at work that's free to the tenants of the building, but I don't go anymore. I started to when it fist opened and then went back to walking on my lunch hour instead. It's an emotional thing. I still feel extrememly intimidated and uncomfortable at a gym.
Again being honest, I am sure you are right and this lack of exercise is part of the problem. It's easy for someone else to say, or me to tell myself, just do it, it's so much harder to motivate myself to do more than I am.
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Pat, we started at about the same weight and we are in the same age range, and I have also just about stopped losing, so I feel your frustration! My surgeon told me on my last visit that sometimes when you start with a very high BMI like we did, that sometimes your body will resist losing any more at a certain point. I have seen this happen the past few months. I have hardly lost anything, I work out a lot, doing cardio and strength/core training, and the scale hasn't budged a whole lot. I see some physical changes due to the working out, but not at the level that I had been seeing and not on the scale, so it's super frustrating. That said, I took a good look at the situation, and now the way I see it is that if I didn't lose another pound, I would be ok with that. I am at a normal size, I have tons of energy, my quality of life has improved immeasurably, and I feel amazing. It's hard to accept that maybe I am where I am supposed to be when I would like to be 20 lbs less, but I am sure in a much better place than I was and I am truly grateful for that.
Have you talked to your surgeon lately to see what he thinks about the situation?
Dale0 -
Pat, we started at about the same weight and we are in the same age range, and I have also just about stopped losing, so I feel your frustration! My surgeon told me on my last visit that sometimes when you start with a very high BMI like we did, that sometimes your body will resist losing any more at a certain point. I have seen this happen the past few months. I have hardly lost anything, I work out a lot, doing cardio and strength/core training, and the scale hasn't budged a whole lot. I see some physical changes due to the working out, but not at the level that I had been seeing and not on the scale, so it's super frustrating. That said, I took a good look at the situation, and now the way I see it is that if I didn't lose another pound, I would be ok with that. I am at a normal size, I have tons of energy, my quality of life has improved immeasurably, and I feel amazing. It's hard to accept that maybe I am where I am supposed to be when I would like to be 20 lbs less, but I am sure in a much better place than I was and I am truly grateful for that.
Have you talked to your surgeon lately to see what he thinks about the situation?
Dale
Dale, I haven't talked to the surgeon or anyone on the team. I'm probably avoiding them at this point. Funny how those old habits pop back up, don't talk to the doctor because he's going to tell me I'm not doing enough of this or too much of that. Sigh! OK, another thing I need to make myself do.
I too am much healthier than I have been since high school and truly feel I'm successful at a 164 pound loss. But I'm stuck in the need to be below 200 somewhere. I don't feel the need to get to a "normal" BMI (140 or so), I don't even feel the need to get to my "ideal" weight of 160. I do however feel very strongly that I need to get and stay somewhere below 200. I just simply am not ready to be done losing yet.
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Pat: I am the first to admit that there are almost an endless number of things I would rather do than exercise, and I don't have the physical limitations that you have. I was just going to offer that if you have access to a pool, you could do water aerobics and that should be much more gentle to your back, knee, and heals. They have a water aerobics class at most health clubs and they are actually a little bit of fun. Best Wishes!0
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Pat, I totally get it about not being ready to stop losing. Sometimes I feel disappointed in myself that I am not at the goal weight I thought I would be at, like I should be doing something different. I really do want to lose another 20 or so and it's frustrating that I am struggling to do that at this point. I have thought of upping my calories, lowering my calories, exercising more, exercising less, I just don't know. I guess at this point it's trial and error? And maybe it is just out of our control.
I know the dread of going to the doctor when you don't want to, but we put ourselves in their hands in a big way when we chose to have surgery, so if we had that trust then, it should be just fine to give them a chance now. They have definitely seen it all, and you are a success, so you have nothing to fear by going!0 -
Pat, have you tried riding stationary bike? Can you commit just to 1 week of regular low impact exercise? I know you hate it but it's only a week. Do you have someone to workout with? IF so drag them along with you it is helpful to have friends doing what you hate. Do you hate the weight more than the exercise. If you injure easily it is because your muscles are not developed enough. Take it easy the first week out but really move, don't phone it in. Make yourself the priority for just 1 week. Get moving, If I didn't workout I wouldn't be as far as I am. I just calculated my % of excess weight loss and at 10 months out I am at 80 percent. I don't suggest you do what I do in exercise, I am just asking you to give yourself 1 week and move every day for 1 hour. Walk, if you can, ride a stationary bike and do your pilates. Don't feel intimidated at the gym, go in and just do your thing and leave. Believe me NO ONE is looking or making judgement and if they are, who cares. Most people are just doing their thing and really not judging you. Can you possibly commit to 1 week of exercise? Try it and see if that helps.0
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Generally people stop losing when they have lost enough muscle mass and eaten so little for so long, that the "Calories in Calories out" equation balances. To fix, one of those needs to change. Since I doubt you want to eat less....
1) Do *something* to build muscle. It does not have to be in a gym . Google chair workouts - play the video from youtube on your laptop and do it while watching tv or something. Try to be progressive about it... every week or two up the weight by a pound, or search for a slightly more difficult video.
2) If you still have really, really low calories, try upping them (while upping your activity too - walk another 1000 steps a day, for example). In theory, eating 800 and burning 1300 a day should lead to 1 pound weight loss a week... as should eating 1200 and burning 1700... in theory it should not matter... in reality, your body will much prefer the higher in/out numbers and may start responding better. Plus more food=more energy=moving more=more calories burned!
3) Get a fitbit or other step type tracker. After a week, calculate your average steps. Aim to make your next week's average 500 steps higher. Keep at it until you can do it. Then make 500 steps higher your next average weekly goal, etc.
4) Make other fitness-related goals besides weight loss... I.e. maybe with your arthritis and all, a goal would be to take and finish a swim aerobics class. Or walk around the block 5 times or something. Once you set a very reasonable goal, start small and work up to it. Ignore the scale while doing that. When you hit that goal, come up with another one - something you cant quite do right now, but you could in maybe a month or two if you work up to it. Again, ignore the scale. Reward hitting your goals with something non-food related (new workout clothes, manicure, etc). Chances are good that the scale will move along too, but if not - you are visibly improving your health and mobility.
DOnt just give up. Yes, your body probably has a "happy weight" that it wants to stick at, but that by no means says it is not capable of going lower. Despite having WLS, the basics laws of physics apply - if you are not losing weight, you are eating at your maintenance calories. If you want to lose weight, you have to eat less than your maintenance calories. That does not mean to eat less - it means you need to raise your maintenance calories! that means more activity throughout the day (not necessarily gym time) and more muscle.
I lost more weight eating 1500 calories and burning 2000 calories (lots of gym time, lots of muscle!) than I ever did eating 1000 calories and burning 1500... though it should be the same, it really isnt. Plus I am a happier and more energetic person with more fuel, and my body shape is WAY better... It took a long time, thats why you need to look at other goals. In fact, pick something above to do for a month, do it diligently for a month and do not weigh yourself until a month is over. Take your focus off the scale - it will eventually catch up, but you dont wear your weight on your shirt or anything for anyone to see so you are the only person who cares. Everyone else sees you getting smaller and fitter and healthier. Thats what you need to see. Dont put all your energy on that one number that really doesnt mean a lot. I weigh 10-20 pounds more than people guess I do... Am I disappointed because I look like I weigh 20 pounds less than I actually do? NO - I look good
You can do this!0 -
Just to offer a different perspective...
In every race I've done, there are people of all shapes and sizes - most people I know who've trained for marathons/long runs actually gain weight during the process. There are a few interesting books like Gary Taubes "Why We Get Fat" and Phinney and Volek's "The Art and Science of Low Carb Living" that question the whole calories in < calories out concept and the fact that all calories are not created equal. As a disclaimer, I have followed this ketogenic diet for almost all of post-op, so I can't really compare it to the "traditional" everything-in-moderation approach that my nutritionist advocates, but my weight loss has been very steady, I don't feel deprived, and I feel like this is a sustainable eating plan for me. Even more important than the weight loss, cutting out grains, sugars, and starches makes me feel loads better. If your current eating plan isn't working for weight loss anymore, maybe it's time to switch things up?
I run because I love it, but my weight loss definitely slowed down when I added in running and strength training. Exercise is great for cardiovascular fitness, but there is not great evidence that it actually speeds up weight loss. My advice would be to find a food plan that works for weight loss first and then add in exercise as you're able (and find something you enjoy! It's not sustainable if you hate it.) Hang in there, it just takes some experimenting to find what works best for you!0 -
Just to offer a different perspective...
Exercise is great for cardiovascular fitness, but there is not great evidence that it actually speeds up weight loss. My advice would be to find a food plan that works for weight loss first and then add in exercise as you're able (and find something you enjoy! It's not sustainable if you hate it.) Hang in there, it just takes some experimenting to find what works best for you!
^^^^^THIS^^^^^!!!!!0 -
pawoodhull wrote: »We all know that with WLS we are told we will lose about 60-70% of our excess weight. at my lowest I have lost 57.5%. As some of you know, I got down to 222 and then through the holidays bounced back up to 232, all just plain bad eating. The first week I was "back on track" I lost 5, so was at 227. Since then I have bounced between that 227 and 230. I haven't lost anything since September and I'm wondering if I'm done. If I need to accept where I am. If my body isn't going to let me go any further. Frankly, I'm not sure if I can accept this but I don't seem to be able to get to my goal of being below 200. Confused, frustrated and a little sad.
My surgeon and program never used that statistic. My thought is that there is no science to back it up, but rather, more of a "set expectations" for WLS patients. Or perhaps it's an individual goal, based on your starting weight and what the medical field calls "success" for tracking and insurance company purposes.
My starting weight was 237 and I now weigh 128.6 (yes, the .6 is important LOL) and I'm 3.5 years out. I lost fairly consistently, had a gain after being at goal for 2.5 years, lost that weight plus an additional 8lbs. I should also mention I'm over 50 and always thought I had a slower than normal metabolism.
For me, what works is a high protein, low carb eating plan.
pawoodhull - I truly believe that you can continue to lose weight and will. Don't give in, rather shake things up, try something new and don't give up. It takes a conscious effort but you can do it!
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renovagirl wrote: »pawoodhull wrote: »We all know that with WLS we are told we will lose about 60-70% of our excess weight. at my lowest I have lost 57.5%. As some of you know, I got down to 222 and then through the holidays bounced back up to 232, all just plain bad eating. The first week I was "back on track" I lost 5, so was at 227. Since then I have bounced between that 227 and 230. I haven't lost anything since September and I'm wondering if I'm done. If I need to accept where I am. If my body isn't going to let me go any further. Frankly, I'm not sure if I can accept this but I don't seem to be able to get to my goal of being below 200. Confused, frustrated and a little sad.
My surgeon and program never used that statistic. My thought is that there is no science to back it up, but rather, more of a "set expectations" for WLS patients. Or perhaps it's an individual goal, based on your starting weight and what the medical field calls "success" for tracking and insurance company purposes.
My starting weight was 237 and I now weigh 128.6 (yes, the .6 is important LOL) and I'm 3.5 years out. I lost fairly consistently, had a gain after being at goal for 2.5 years, lost that weight plus an additional 8lbs. I should also mention I'm over 50 and always thought I had a slower than normal metabolism.
For me, what works is a high protein, low carb eating plan.
pawoodhull - I truly believe that you can continue to lose weight and will. Don't give in, rather shake things up, try something new and don't give up. It takes a conscious effort but you can do it!
^^^^^^ this
^^^^^^ could have (and have several times) written almost exactly the same timeline 0 -
The way my surgeon explained it is that we can expect to lose about 60% of our excess weight if we do nothing but have the surgery and follow the plan. When we reduce our calories as much as we do, we will lose weight, to a point.
If we want to lose more than that, we have to exercise, and exercise hard. Walking is fantastic for helping the weight loss in the beginning. For most of us, even walking was too much presurgery, so 30 mins a day is great. However, that will do nothing for weight loss once your body becomes accustomed to it. Your body simply expects you to do that now, and doesn't think it needs to burn extra calories just because you are.
You need to change it up. I know you said you have arthritis, and that exercising can be a problem. However, having severe arthritis myself, exacerbated by giving birth to 5 children, I can attest to the fact that the more exercise you do, the less the arthritis will bother you. Physical movement is what keeps the joints loose.
As others have mentioned, water aerobics are great. If walking is all you can do, or access, try walking on an incline. More calorie burn in a shorter amount of time. Also, body weight exercises. All body weight exercises can be modified, and building up that muscle is going to help you burn more calories. Cardio is great, but not as a sole means of fitness. Your joints need those muscles so they are not doing all the work of supporting you. It will be difficult at first, but you will feel so much better physically in the long run!0 -
As others have mentioned, water aerobics are great. If walking is all you can do, or access, try walking on an incline. More calorie burn in a shorter amount of time. Also, body weight exercises. All body weight exercises can be modified, and building up that muscle is going to help you burn more calories. Cardio is great, but not as a sole means of fitness. Your joints need those muscles so they are not doing all the work of supporting you. It will be difficult at first, but you will feel so much better physically in the long run!
jrnguyen, I would love to blame my lack of exercise on the arthritis but in all honesty I can't. Since losing 164 pounds, I am pain free 95% of the time. I really have no excuse to not do more. Yes, I do seem to get injuries easily, but truthfully I don't do more because I hate exercise. I would rather while away my free time with a good book, scrapbooking, and crocheting. I did have more interest in being active during the first year, but seem to have lost that spark and my naturally lazy side came back. I appreciate your input. Honesty just compells me to take responsibility for the fact that I don't move much.
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alayjane, Thanks for the input. Those are great ideas. Truth be told, I really just need to get off my butt more and use that wonderful pilates machine I rewarded myself with when I got below 300 pounds. Since it's function is to build and strengthen the core muscles, it goes right along with what you are saying.
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Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I am implimenting a lot of what you are suggesting because I am not ready to be done yet and just can't bring myself to accept being above 200 pounds. I can see that my biggest obstacle is my aversion to exercise. Not sure how to motivate myself, but I want to be in Onderland more than I want to be lazy, so I will find a way.
Again, thank you for your suggestions and support. You all are great friends.0 -
pawoodhull - not sure if it helps or hurts but I have not exercised hard, nor consistently. In fact, I could be considered sedentary. It's calories in/calories out, protein, protein, protein. (at least for me)0
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^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^ could have (and have several times) written almost exactly the same timeline [/quote]
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renovagirl - I am also very sedentary and until the last year or so it hasn't been an issue. Year 2-3 I actually lost 15 pounds and the PA said I was still actively losing. But since I saw her in July I've lost just one pound. And then of course I gained 10 over the holidays. I think this last 30-60 pounds is going to come off the hard way and I need to add exercise to my life whether I like it or not.0
