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Visceral Fat - So Interesting & So Overlooked
GrannyMayOz
Posts: 1,051 Member
Someone posted this video in the group yesterday (and I can’t find it again). The Dr mentions that when we start to lose fat it first comes from the liver and it got me thinking about internal and visceral fat losses in general. I’m about to either bore you, or inspire you, with the things I’ve found so far in my search for knowledge 
I do bounce around a bit so bear with me, but I hope you find something of interest amongst what I’ve found, and I hope that you find it heartening to know that you’re helping your body in far more ways than you think!
From YouTube. It’s the 24 mins 30 secs part that I’m honing in on but it’s a great video. Thank you OP!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcLoaVNQ3rc
So let’s get a visual to inspire us towards this inner, and far more important fat loss goal. A visual that we can keep in mind when we’re not happy about anything happening on the outside!
From allergiesandyourgut.com
From healthyeater.com/why-youre-not-losing-fat
Where You Lose Fat First
“For most people, fat acts like the layers of an onion.
It doesn’t disappear from a particular place, but comes off layer by layer from the whole body.
However, in some people there are localized areas where fat loss (and gain) is more pronounced, and while fat is still shed from all over the body, the loss is proportionately different in different areas.
It tends to go from the most recent place it appeared.
If your tummy started gaining first – this will be the very last place for the fat to disappear from.
This is why a man can get thin in the face – and yet still have a small ‘spare tire’ around his waist. Or a woman may complain of a smaller bust, and yet her hip size has dropped only a tiny amount.”
And…
“Obese men tend to lose more visceral (internal) fat while obese women lose more subcutaneous fat”
“Diet alone results in more visceral fat loss (and less surface fat loss). This explains how you can lose weight – but not necessarily have any radical change in appearance.”
(They also discuss cellulite briefly.)
From hussmanfitness.org/html/TSInsideOut.html
He’s talking about weight training but there is a great deal of interesting information about intramuscular fat as well as visceral fat. If you can read the article, taking what you like and leaving the rest, there are some great facts about muscles becoming firmer after intracellular fat losses. He also speaks about strengthened muscles storing glycogen, with the adherence of several grams of water to accompany that glycogen, which of course will add to our weight on the scale. “Regular exercise also increases blood volume.” That’s not something we ever give a thought to is it? But there’s no doubt weight trained people have visibly enlarged veins!
“For most people, the initial drop in the scale will probably understate your fat loss in the first few weeks. For very overweight people, the drop on the scale will probably exceed your fat loss. That's particularly true if your diet was very high in carbohydrate before you started. In very overweight individuals, even the increased muscle cell and blood volume is typically less than the initial loss in water weight. A lot of people seem to think that water loss is not "real" weight loss. Well, if your fat level stays the same, that's true. But your body's water retention is largely determined by its fat content. So if you lose the fat, the water stays off as well!”
“There's so much pressure to see quick results that it's easy to forget the point of this, which is quite frankly to save your life. Don't ignore increases in strength and overall feeling of health and well-being. Those are goals too.”
“So don't force the numbers. They'll come. Here is your job today: adhere to a winning pattern of action that you know will produce results if you follow it consistently. That's all. And if you do that today, congratulate yourself as a winner. If instead, you insist on measuring your success by whether or not the scale or caliper show progress today, you're creating a game you can lose. In Steven Covey's words, you're putting yourself in the position of trying to manage consequences rather than actions.”
“Lastly, if you've been sedentary for a long time, your fat probably hasn't seen an ounce of circulation since high school. This causes your fat to turn thick and hard, or "blubbery" (yes, Scrabble fans, that is a word). Marine animals have this sort of fat deposit, called a "blubber lay". When you start working out consistently, some of you may find that your fat or cellulite becomes more like Jell-O initially. In whales (forgive me - this is not personal), increased activity also forces a change in circulation strategy so that there is increased blood flow near the body's surface. I suspect that this occurs in humans as well, so you may be a little "pink" for even hours after a good workout.”
[Pink??? I used to turn *beetroot* and was always sure my face was about to explode! It’s improving slowly.]
From livestrong.com/article/437831-what-types-of-fat-are-easier-to-lose/
“The more visceral fat you have, the higher your risk for developing health conditions such as metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance and heart disease.”
And…
“Visceral fat is by far more dangerous than subcutaneous fat. According to the Harvard Family Health Guide, intra-abdominal fat is a key player in cardiovascular disease and Type 2 diabetes in men and women and breast cancer and the need for gallbladder surgery in women.”
(They also discuss the benefits of various levels of exercise which is outside the scope of this post *and* differs from beliefs held by LCHF advocates at large.)
So to summarise;
VISCERAL FAT LOSS. **This goes first!** So don’t be disheartened if you are not yet changing shape or losing inches/centimetres. It’s the dangerous-to-your-health fat that’s coming away so that’s truly exciting – isn’t it??? Could it be possible that it takes a little time to move away from your insides? That it has to do some changing and processing before it moves all the way out? I’ve written far too much already so I’ll leave that for another day, or someone else who knows the answers.
GENERAL FAT LOSS. The location of our fat losses are specific to each of us. No two people will lose from the exact same places or at the same rates. We all know that you can’t spot reduce fat from desired areas, it’s a whole body thing. We can exercise and shape our muscles to make some difference to our body shape, but even the muscles look more impressive (or show at all!) if we lose all-over fat to reveal all of our hard work with our diet!
I do bounce around a bit so bear with me, but I hope you find something of interest amongst what I’ve found, and I hope that you find it heartening to know that you’re helping your body in far more ways than you think!From YouTube. It’s the 24 mins 30 secs part that I’m honing in on but it’s a great video. Thank you OP!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcLoaVNQ3rcSo let’s get a visual to inspire us towards this inner, and far more important fat loss goal. A visual that we can keep in mind when we’re not happy about anything happening on the outside!
From allergiesandyourgut.com
From healthyeater.com/why-youre-not-losing-fat
Where You Lose Fat First
“For most people, fat acts like the layers of an onion.
It doesn’t disappear from a particular place, but comes off layer by layer from the whole body.
However, in some people there are localized areas where fat loss (and gain) is more pronounced, and while fat is still shed from all over the body, the loss is proportionately different in different areas.
It tends to go from the most recent place it appeared.
If your tummy started gaining first – this will be the very last place for the fat to disappear from.
This is why a man can get thin in the face – and yet still have a small ‘spare tire’ around his waist. Or a woman may complain of a smaller bust, and yet her hip size has dropped only a tiny amount.”
And…
“Obese men tend to lose more visceral (internal) fat while obese women lose more subcutaneous fat”
“Diet alone results in more visceral fat loss (and less surface fat loss). This explains how you can lose weight – but not necessarily have any radical change in appearance.”
(They also discuss cellulite briefly.)
From hussmanfitness.org/html/TSInsideOut.html
He’s talking about weight training but there is a great deal of interesting information about intramuscular fat as well as visceral fat. If you can read the article, taking what you like and leaving the rest, there are some great facts about muscles becoming firmer after intracellular fat losses. He also speaks about strengthened muscles storing glycogen, with the adherence of several grams of water to accompany that glycogen, which of course will add to our weight on the scale. “Regular exercise also increases blood volume.” That’s not something we ever give a thought to is it? But there’s no doubt weight trained people have visibly enlarged veins!
“For most people, the initial drop in the scale will probably understate your fat loss in the first few weeks. For very overweight people, the drop on the scale will probably exceed your fat loss. That's particularly true if your diet was very high in carbohydrate before you started. In very overweight individuals, even the increased muscle cell and blood volume is typically less than the initial loss in water weight. A lot of people seem to think that water loss is not "real" weight loss. Well, if your fat level stays the same, that's true. But your body's water retention is largely determined by its fat content. So if you lose the fat, the water stays off as well!”
“There's so much pressure to see quick results that it's easy to forget the point of this, which is quite frankly to save your life. Don't ignore increases in strength and overall feeling of health and well-being. Those are goals too.”
“So don't force the numbers. They'll come. Here is your job today: adhere to a winning pattern of action that you know will produce results if you follow it consistently. That's all. And if you do that today, congratulate yourself as a winner. If instead, you insist on measuring your success by whether or not the scale or caliper show progress today, you're creating a game you can lose. In Steven Covey's words, you're putting yourself in the position of trying to manage consequences rather than actions.”
“Lastly, if you've been sedentary for a long time, your fat probably hasn't seen an ounce of circulation since high school. This causes your fat to turn thick and hard, or "blubbery" (yes, Scrabble fans, that is a word). Marine animals have this sort of fat deposit, called a "blubber lay". When you start working out consistently, some of you may find that your fat or cellulite becomes more like Jell-O initially. In whales (forgive me - this is not personal), increased activity also forces a change in circulation strategy so that there is increased blood flow near the body's surface. I suspect that this occurs in humans as well, so you may be a little "pink" for even hours after a good workout.”
[Pink??? I used to turn *beetroot* and was always sure my face was about to explode! It’s improving slowly.]
From livestrong.com/article/437831-what-types-of-fat-are-easier-to-lose/
“The more visceral fat you have, the higher your risk for developing health conditions such as metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance and heart disease.”
And…
“Visceral fat is by far more dangerous than subcutaneous fat. According to the Harvard Family Health Guide, intra-abdominal fat is a key player in cardiovascular disease and Type 2 diabetes in men and women and breast cancer and the need for gallbladder surgery in women.”
(They also discuss the benefits of various levels of exercise which is outside the scope of this post *and* differs from beliefs held by LCHF advocates at large.)
So to summarise;
VISCERAL FAT LOSS. **This goes first!** So don’t be disheartened if you are not yet changing shape or losing inches/centimetres. It’s the dangerous-to-your-health fat that’s coming away so that’s truly exciting – isn’t it??? Could it be possible that it takes a little time to move away from your insides? That it has to do some changing and processing before it moves all the way out? I’ve written far too much already so I’ll leave that for another day, or someone else who knows the answers.
GENERAL FAT LOSS. The location of our fat losses are specific to each of us. No two people will lose from the exact same places or at the same rates. We all know that you can’t spot reduce fat from desired areas, it’s a whole body thing. We can exercise and shape our muscles to make some difference to our body shape, but even the muscles look more impressive (or show at all!) if we lose all-over fat to reveal all of our hard work with our diet!
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This is very good reading!0
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WOW this is fascinating. now I am worried about my visceral fat. Hope it is going away as he says it will.
Thanks!!0 -
Visceral fat is also known as ectopic fat. It's fascinating stuff. Essentially, most of us weren't designed to be in a constant state of excess calories. Our normal fat (the subcutaneous stuff) gets full, and new adipocytes infiltrate tissue they're not supposed to.
Ectopic fat is nasty in many ways. It can mechanically gum up the works (e.g., liver damage), but it's also inflammatory.
I believe there's one theory that a mechanism for insulin resistance is that the normal insulin receptors end up burried in ectopic fat.0 -
@IamUndrCnstruction and @Shades Awesome - I'm so pleased you found it interesting. It's something I want to look into further. Shades, please don't worry, that was never my intention. Just prefer to think that when nothing appears to be happening you're probably losing internal fat.
@wabmester It really is fascinating isn't it? And I think it's ignored far too much! It also answers why my fat is flubbery external to my stomach wall and my husband's is a distended stomach with very little to grab on the outside eeeekkk! Trying to explain to him the importance of addressing it. He's slooooowly listening! Thank you for your additional information.0 -
@GrannyMay. I have quite a bit of the flubbery tummy stuff too. It is rather amazing. Thinking I could grab it like a can can dancer grabbing the front of her dress and lift and wave it. Hahaha TMI I am sure. Wondering what is going to happen to that skin. I do not have much tummy fat above my waist. Just below.
I was more concerned about the liver fat. Also interested in knowing it could be going away with not much tape measure or scale activity noticeable. Hoping this is true.
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I suppose I've actually been fortunate with my 'tree trunk legs' that I've always hated so much. They're keeping the fat away from my innards, and to some degree my stomach too, so I know that I won't end up with an apron. My top weight was 100 kgs (220 lbs) 30 years ago. At 195 lbs before last Christmas , that was the heaviest I've been since then. I hope that your extra skin shrinks nicely with the added elasticity that dietary fat gives our skin Shades!
And yes, the liver fat is a concern, but if the doctor says we lose it from there first... Pretty awesome I reckon!0 -
GrannyMay, great post! as Dr. Lustig, UCSF surgeon/speaker on sugar toxicity shows when we eat glucose it can be used by all parts of the body, but fructose..the dangerous one..goes straight to the liver..no where else it is used/metabalized, and is stored as fatty liver..If we are NOT eating fructose on Keto, from all the corn sugar, etc. then you are not adding any, and over time your body will hopefully adapt to burn when is stored around the liver too. feels like a great 2nd chance if we give our body the food it really needs.0
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@KETOGENICGURL So is he saying that if your liver is full of fructose (rather than glucose) that it will take longer to clear the fat from the liver than the other doctor says?0
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Excellent post Granmy Mae! Thank you. It's good to remember there is more to this than what the scale says.0
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I can identify with those whales! Scary but good to know. Thanks for this helpful post.0
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I think the fructose hypothesis is out of favor now. It's just excess calories.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140226075021.htm0 -
Excellent post granny...thanks so much for making me smarter today
My fancy pants scale that talks to my phone app gives a number for visceral fat...I'm assuming some type of algorithm based on whatever other readings it takes. I'm looking forward to that number going down consistently0 -
Well I just happen to have a DEXA scan scheduled for tomorrow. I will ask them what my visceral fat is. the test for me is for bone density BUT "This test measures one’s body fat & gives a 3 dimensional measurement of: Fat Tissue Mass (Subcutaneous Fat & Internal Visceral Fat), Lean Muscle Mass and Total Body Mineral Content (Total Skeletal Mass & Bone Density)" I do not know how long it takes to get the results. I would think instant. Hoping I can come home with a report in hand.
The test was scheduled to mostly check my bones but it will be interesting to see how much visceral I do have now. No way to know the before so hoping I do not have a whole lot of it now. Stay tuned for results. LOL0 -
@baconslave - for the fat FAQ maybe?0
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I will third that. All in Favor say I. LOL Really is a great bit of information.0
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Thanks everyone for a very thought provoking discussion! What a smart group of people of wandered into!
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Great read. Thanks for putting it together.0
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It is my visceral fat that concerns me and it seems to be the fat that is last to go?0
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I'm so happy that everyone has enjoyed reading this and so many have found it beneficial.I think the fructose hypothesis is out of favor now. It's just excess calories.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140226075021.htm
Awesome!GaleHawkins wrote: »It is my visceral fat that concerns me and it seems to be the fat that is last to go?
Well according to the video at the very top, liver fat is the first to go. If our bodies are wiser than we are, then I reckon the other visceral locations would be cleansed of dangerous fat in the order of danger, would you agree? I hope that's the case, I'm purely speculating, but I believe in our body's wisdom if we give it the correct tools.
I still want to research more and will post any further findings. I hope everyone else will add their findings here, or generally on LCD too.
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GrannyMayOz wrote: »Well according to the video at the very top, liver fat is the first to go. If our bodies are wiser than we are, then I reckon the other visceral locations would be cleansed of dangerous fat in the order of danger, would you agree? I hope that's the case, I'm purely speculating, but I believe in our body's wisdom if we give it the correct tools.
I believe you're correct here. The body prioritizes the most important tasks. This is why you can't choose where fat loss comes from. Your body takes care of the fat that has the biggest negative impact on the overall system, not the fat that looks worst in the mirror.
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Interesting to see the last-on-first-off thing discussed. I wondered if everyone lost fat this way. I know I do. First place I gain is my boobs and thighs. Last place I gain is my midsection. So the first 10-15#s I lose always gives me the extreme hourglass thing (assuming 30#s from start to goal) as my midsection shrinks relative to the rest of me. Boobs don't really ever shrink, which is why I had reduction surgery about 11 years ago as a 34DDD. Very dense, ducty, and relatively un-fatty "girls," they are/were.0
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GrannyMayOz wrote: »
Agreed. I always thought of it as an advantage that my height disguises weight so well. It wasn't until I was older and had to worry about more than what size I wore that I realized part of how that worked was where the fat was going.0 -
authoritynutrition.com/10-benefits-of-low-carb-ketogenic-diets/
States in support of LCHF/ketogenic diets...
"A Greater Proportion of The Fat Lost Comes From The Abdominal Cavity
Not all fat in the body is the same.
It’s where that fat is stored that determines how it will affect our health and risk of disease.
Most importantly, we have subcutaneous fat (under the skin) and then we have visceral fat (in the abdominal cavity).
Visceral fat is fat that tends to lodge around the organs.
Having a lot of fat in that area can drive inflammation, insulin resistance and is believed to be a leading driver of the metabolic dysfunction that is so common in Western countries today.
Low-carb diets are very effective at reducing the harmful abdominal fat.
Not only do they cause more fat loss than low-fat diets, an even greater proportion of that fat is coming from the abdominal cavity.
Over time, this should lead to a drastically reduced risk of heart disease and type 2 diabetes.
Bottom Line: A large percentage of the fat lost on low-carb diets tends to come from the harmful fat in the abdominal cavity that is known to cause serious metabolic problems."0 -
That's why I'm LC. Not for weight loss as much as for liver-fat loss.0
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I can't seems to lose my tummy fat
It's dropping everywhere else but not around my lower stomach area. WTH?0 -
But where is your stomach muscle wall? Is that flat, or 'bloated'? If it's flat then you're 'only' up against subcutaneous fat which, whilst annoying, isn't the health issue of the visceral version.
I also think that fat goes away in the opposite order of its arrival so if you gained your tummy first, that's going to be last, or near last going. That's just personal experience. And knowing that your body clears fat in order of importance for the damage it will do you... well, I hope that you can join me in finding that encouraging?0 -
It kind of sits around belly button, a bit above and below, so how long will it take to get rid of it? I know that we as females are just blessed with the pouch lol0
This discussion has been closed.