Calculated and calculated and my numbers don´t add up
Neonbeige
Posts: 271 Member
Dunno, I really thought I had gotten all this stuff, BMR, TDEE etc. But apparently there´s something not adding up or I simply don´t have a clue...
Okay, so on Heybales spreadsheet and on scooby etc. my BMR is around 1460. They even give me around the same TDEE (2229 (heybales) to 2267 (scooby)).
But heybales says I should eat 1588 calories - which is a defizit of 28,7% based on my first goal (losing 13kg) and 0% of cardio/lifting ratio (what does that mean? ).
Scooby gives me 1933 calories= TDEE-15%.
I walk daily around an hour in a fast pace (average speed is around 6km/h - which puts me in the medium cardio range in the sheet) and usually burn around 400-450 calories (took my HRM with me a couple of times) and I lift three times/week - stronglifts. So I put that into the sheet and put in moderate in scooby.
I have a deskjob from home and two kids (age 9 and 6 - so not really running after them anymore).
My problem is:
If I put MFP on 1900 calories I eat under my BMR, especially the days I also lift (1900 - around 400 for walking and 100 or so for the lifting).
So right now I am putting my calories on 1550 and eat back my exercise calories. Is that okay? Too much/little? I am only a tiny bit above my BMR but most of the time still over the 1900 from Scooby.
Can someone tell me if my thinking process is totally stupid?
Okay, so on Heybales spreadsheet and on scooby etc. my BMR is around 1460. They even give me around the same TDEE (2229 (heybales) to 2267 (scooby)).
But heybales says I should eat 1588 calories - which is a defizit of 28,7% based on my first goal (losing 13kg) and 0% of cardio/lifting ratio (what does that mean? ).
Scooby gives me 1933 calories= TDEE-15%.
I walk daily around an hour in a fast pace (average speed is around 6km/h - which puts me in the medium cardio range in the sheet) and usually burn around 400-450 calories (took my HRM with me a couple of times) and I lift three times/week - stronglifts. So I put that into the sheet and put in moderate in scooby.
I have a deskjob from home and two kids (age 9 and 6 - so not really running after them anymore).
My problem is:
If I put MFP on 1900 calories I eat under my BMR, especially the days I also lift (1900 - around 400 for walking and 100 or so for the lifting).
So right now I am putting my calories on 1550 and eat back my exercise calories. Is that okay? Too much/little? I am only a tiny bit above my BMR but most of the time still over the 1900 from Scooby.
Can someone tell me if my thinking process is totally stupid?
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Replies
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How much do you have to lose? I would go with a MAX TDEE-20% if you have a LOT (aka 75+ lb) to lose but TDEE-15% for normal weight loss. Go with Scooby and don't eat back exercise calories. Just eat the deficit. Easier to go with. If you lose too much weight too quickly, add more calories.0
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Well, according to the spreadsheet I should lose at least 29kg (and that´s big frame) oO
But honestly I don´t see myself there anymore - this weight is just too long ago. I know I already look much better with around 8-10 kg less than now, so I thought to go with that and then decide if I wish to go on. I don´t feel pressured to be skinny or even very slim. I am okay with weighing a bit more, but not as much as now, because I crossed the curvy to chubby/fat line and that´s too much for my liking :-) Plus I want to be fitter and less wobbely...
If I go with TDEE -20% it leaves me with around1800 calories. On a day like today that would be netting around 250 calories under my BMR - and I didn´t even manage to lift due to having the kids at home...
That´s the point that confuses me big time. I should stay over my BMR but eat 15-20% under my TDEE.0 -
On Scooby, you need to choose a higher activity level - you are not moderate. Walking fast paced for an hour every day of the week? That's 7 hours, burning 450 cals each hr. Then you do stronglifts 3x a week. I would go with at very minimum 5-6 hr activity level - likely even higher, especially when you add your other daily activity in, which does count as well. Using a higher activity level, you won't be netting under your BMR.0
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Dunno, I really thought I had gotten all this stuff, BMR, TDEE etc. But apparently there´s something not adding up or I simply don´t have a clue...
Okay, so on Heybales spreadsheet and on scooby etc. my BMR is around 1460. They even give me around the same TDEE (2229 (heybales) to 2267 (scooby)).
But heybales says I should eat 1588 calories - which is a defizit of 28,7% based on my first goal (losing 13kg) and 0% of cardio/lifting ratio (what does that mean? ).
Scooby gives me 1933 calories= TDEE-15%.
I walk daily around an hour in a fast pace (average speed is around 6km/h - which puts me in the medium cardio range in the sheet) and usually burn around 400-450 calories (took my HRM with me a couple of times) and I lift three times/week - stronglifts. So I put that into the sheet and put in moderate in scooby.
I have a deskjob from home and two kids (age 9 and 6 - so not really running after them anymore).
My problem is:
If I put MFP on 1900 calories I eat under my BMR, especially the days I also lift (1900 - around 400 for walking and 100 or so for the lifting).
So right now I am putting my calories on 1550 and eat back my exercise calories. Is that okay? Too much/little? I am only a tiny bit above my BMR but most of the time still over the 1900 from Scooby.
Can someone tell me if my thinking process is totally stupid?
Too little probably, don't want that method.
That assumes you have the BMR correct, it's an estimate from a formula, that will get more accurate closer to goal weight you are.
And that assumes you know the exercise calories really well, which you probably can't.
Though walking is calm compared to other high intense stuff and better estimate.
The 0% cardio/lifting means you do no intense cardio compared to lifting.
Lifting help retain muscle mass, intense cardio just opposite. So the deficit is smaller if you do no lifting or high cardio only.
And walking, unless powerwalking with hills upwards of 5 mph - just doesn't burn as much as lifting or running might.
So 1 hr of walking doesn't earn the same time and calorie burn as 1 hr lifting and 1 hr running say.
Actually about 1/2 time, so the calorie burn is correct.
In the sheet, each of those increases of cardio is about 2 x more calories than level below.
But 3.5 hrs walking and 1.5 hrs SL weekly is about 5 hrs. So no wonder they match for TDEE.
Take 15% off for TDEG.
Track your measurement stats on the Progress tab to see the changes, and potentially get better BMR estimate down the road, and obviously a change of TDEE then.
So 6 yrs old you don't have to run after them as much, ya, seems like yelling works well for me if he hears me.0 -
Well, according to the spreadsheet I should lose at least 29kg (and that´s big frame) oO
But honestly I don´t see myself there anymore - this weight is just too long ago. I know I already look much better with around 8-10 kg less than now, so I thought to go with that and then decide if I wish to go on. I don´t feel pressured to be skinny or even very slim. I am okay with weighing a bit more, but not as much as now, because I crossed the curvy to chubby/fat line and that´s too much for my liking :-) Plus I want to be fitter and less wobbely...
If I go with TDEE -20% it leaves me with around1800 calories. On a day like today that would be netting around 250 calories under my BMR - and I didn´t even manage to lift due to having the kids at home...
That´s the point that confuses me big time. I should stay over my BMR but eat 15-20% under my TDEE.
That math issue only presents itself if sedentary.
Because BMR x 1.2 is 20% increase.
And bigger TDEE minus 20% is bigger decrease.
But you aren't sedentary.
That's a TDEG - Total Daily Eating Goal.
Each day, no matter what.0 -
harhar, I don´t yell at my kids (the whole time). But I just had my friend with her two yo here and that is just not the same. Also my kids are in school until 4pm and then meet friends etc. Of course I cook, go grocery shopping, cuddle/frolic around, take them to and from school, bring my son to football etc.
But I really don´t run after them anymore as I used to/had to. We live in a housing complex where the kids can go outside with their friends and play. I can see/hear them the whole time, but I don´t join them anymore. Compared to a not so far away time I am FREE! :-D
Anyway, thanks for explaining :-)
My calorie burn from walking comes from my HRM, shouldn´t that be pretty accurate (I also track with endemondo and a fitbit *cough*)? I walk with a pace a bit before actually running -slowly running though. Not really uphill but also not only super flat. My speed, according to endemondo is between 5 and 8km/h - I try to stay at ~6km/h for most of the time.Take 15% off for TDEG.
Track your measurement stats on the Progress tab to see the changes, and potentially get better BMR estimate down the road, and obviously a change of TDEE then.
That would be around 1900 calories daily. I think I will start here and watch what happens :-)
That math issue only presents itself if sedentary.
Because BMR x 1.2 is 20% increase.
And bigger TDEE minus 20% is bigger decrease.
But you aren't sedentary.
Sorry, still confusion here. I made that example, because mymodernbabylon suggested to eat -20% if I needed/wanted to lose more weight. My point was, with the TDEE as calculated above - which isn´t calculated as sedentary - I would get under my BMR when walking a lot and lifting also.
Yesterday for example my walk was around 7,5km and burned around 450 calories. Had I put my goal to ~1800 (my TDEE as above -20%), I would have been at 1350 netto ca. and I thought this should be avoided...Or my HRM is calculating it wrong and all the numbers are wrong...
Or Jenbecca is right and I calculated my TDEE wrongly? I always thought lifting wouldn´t burn very much?
Thanks to all of you for taking your time to help me figuring that out. I think I will have to start somewhere, track and see what happens and adjust according to that :-)0 -
Lifting burns more than walking, but indeed not near what more intense cardio would burn.
So order of burn is walking - lifting - cardio.
What if you had a job that had you on your feet alot, walking, nothing you could ever log as exercise, so you just made sure you had increased daily activity level.
What happens to net calories now, with no exercise to take out?
Walking is such a great fat burner because it's so low intensity compared to other things, I really don't think you need to count that as coming off the top for figuring out net calories.
You don't need to replace fat burned, you do want to replace carbs burned in more intense stuff so you can do it again tomorrow.
But at least I see what you mean by net ending up under BMR now, but in reality, at what point do you consider something daily activity or exercise, to even attempt such calculations with? And why would it matter.
Even your jogging is probably slow enough to still be 50% fat burn. So if you burned 600 calories in 1 hr, probably close to 100 was going to be burned anyway as basal metabolism.
So only burned 500 over and above. And of that, 250 was fat burned you don't need to replace, just like the majority of energy used when not exercising is fat burned too, but we aren't concerned with that getting replaced. If we were, there could be no fat loss at all.
It's that 250 of carbs burned you want to be concerned with.0 -
it would matter because of food ;-)
But I understand now, what you mean. Thanks again for explaining.
The last paragraph was especially helpful, because, no, I don´t wish to eat back the calories that burned fat.
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harhar, I don´t yell at my kids (the whole time). But I just had my friend with her two yo here and that is just not the same. Also my kids are in school until 4pm and then meet friends etc. Of course I cook, go grocery shopping, cuddle/frolic around, take them to and from school, bring my son to football etc.
But I really don´t run after them anymore as I used to/had to. We live in a housing complex where the kids can go outside with their friends and play. I can see/hear them the whole time, but I don´t join them anymore. Compared to a not so far away time I am FREE! :-D
Anyway, thanks for explaining :-)
My calorie burn from walking comes from my HRM, shouldn´t that be pretty accurate (I also track with endemondo and a fitbit *cough*)? I walk with a pace a bit before actually running -slowly running though. Not really uphill but also not only super flat. My speed, according to endemondo is between 5 and 8km/h - I try to stay at ~6km/h for most of the time.Take 15% off for TDEG.
Track your measurement stats on the Progress tab to see the changes, and potentially get better BMR estimate down the road, and obviously a change of TDEE then.
That would be around 1900 calories daily. I think I will start here and watch what happens :-)
That math issue only presents itself if sedentary.
Because BMR x 1.2 is 20% increase.
And bigger TDEE minus 20% is bigger decrease.
But you aren't sedentary.
Sorry, still confusion here. I made that example, because mymodernbabylon suggested to eat -20% if I needed/wanted to lose more weight. My point was, with the TDEE as calculated above - which isn´t calculated as sedentary - I would get under my BMR when walking a lot and lifting also.
Yesterday for example my walk was around 7,5km and burned around 450 calories. Had I put my goal to ~1800 (my TDEE as above -20%), I would have been at 1350 netto ca. and I thought this should be avoided...Or my HRM is calculating it wrong and all the numbers are wrong...
Or Jenbecca is right and I calculated my TDEE wrongly? I always thought lifting wouldn´t burn very much?
Thanks to all of you for taking your time to help me figuring that out. I think I will have to start somewhere, track and see what happens and adjust according to that :-)
It sounds to me like you are double counting your exercise calories and eating them back... if you're using the TDEE method and you calculated you need to eat 1800 calories, you are already counting your exercise (since 1800 is already TDEE - something). If you're entering it again to "net" 1350, you're just entering it twice, but not actually netting 1350. You're netting 1800.0 -
Hey Katie, no, I just made an example to figure out the calculations :-)
I had set my goal in mfp to 1500 and then ate most of my exercise calories back, so at the end of the day I had 1500 net. When I had earned lets say 400 calories a day I ate 1900 in total to reach the 1500 net.
But when I calculated all my numbers again to decide if I should stay with that method or use TDEE-15 or 20% I got confused. Because my TDEE-20% would be around 1800 calories/day and my BMR is ~1460.
If I burn 400 for my walk and lets say 100 for my lifting, I would net 1300 calories (1800-500 for exercise) that would put me under my BMR, which we shouldn´t do (no eating back any calories here).
But now I understood, that my walking calories just don´t count as much, so I shouldn´t eat all the calories I burned from walking back and then I am fine either way. If I only count my walking calories half, I won´t get under my BMR with eating at TDEE-15% or even 20%.
Today I let MFP put in my exercise calories just to see the numbers, hehe, but it´s getting too confusing, because also the macros change big time and when I don´t eat them back it doesn´t make any sense.
I think I do it like others here. Just putting my exercise with one calorie for tracking purpose...0 -
Oh I see what you mean. I read that wrong. Looks like you have it sorted out though
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Or, unless you actually have used the exercise diary and reports - just make a wall post about your workouts with more details to inspire others, then you can include calories you think you burned. Put that note in your Exercise diary note for future review.
Despite being called My FITNESS Pal - MFP has a terrible fitness side of things like reports and reviews.0 -
ah, great idea! thanks :-)
@ Katie :-)0
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