Recipe Builder Recommendations, Please

KnitOrMiss

So, this is kind of a rant, but mostly a request.

I'm super beyond explanation fed up with the patheticness of MFP's recipe builder, especially as far as figuring out volume or cooked weight or adequate portion sizes from a recipe without data provided or modifications of existing recipes.

For reference: I started with a recipe that was a topping for potatoes, but modified it to be more of a thick soup/chili recipe. Modified it a little further to tweak ingredients, but have no idea how to figure out the final volume/weight as far as determining serving sizes. Even if I choose to use a 1 cup measurement (industry standard for soup/chili, I've been told), who's to say that my 1 cup will be the same every time. And without "measuring out in cup-sized portions" the finished product, how am I supposed to know how many servings are there?

This would be the same with a recipe complete from scratch, too. Particularly, with this recipe, I'd like to see what I can modify from the way I used to eat it as to whether I can change it enough to make it keto-friendly, or if I just need to start over from scratch to mimic the taste...and if I start over, I'm back at the same dilemma of portion size/weight.

Does anyone know a decent recipe builder that uses volume to give you a total, or even better, weights - and whether the "cooked down" weight compares at all to the starting weight? I'm sure there are tools out there that do one thing or the other.

I'm just crazy frustrated over this, asking my best friend what she would do, and she keeps saying, "just figure it to 1 cup portions," "guess and go back and fix the portions after you've measured all out," or "measure everything, before and after, or quite complaining, even if it takes you 3 hours to weigh/measure/calculate everything." My responses to her were that I can't figure out numbers to 1 cup portions without a point of reference to total volume; I need the accuracy when I'm eating it, not at the end of the week; and that I barely have time to cook, much less spend a long amount of time weighing, measuring, calculating things when most of the items in this particular recipe are canned goods.

Her response to me was, "well then just don't use any recipes that don't give you portion information." I couldn't respond, because at this point I was just so irritated I wouldn't have been polite. She obviously doesn't cook or she would know that isn't realistic. Coming up with completely original recipes or modifying existing recipes is what people who cook do...ALL THE BLOODY TIME.

Yes, I chose this way of eating for my health, at doctor's advice. While the is a certain margin of error expected, most of that is eaten up by manufacturing labels...and having errors based on recipe ridiculousness is just unacceptable to me.

So long story short, I'm super frustrated because my friend thinks that I'm stupid/insane/dumb/ridiculous for needing things to be measurable (she chewed me out when I said that a cup can be different for many things, so for me, weight is more accurate), that I need to waste hours upon hours in my day/weeks/month because the tools currently offered are woefully inadequate, and that I am just "making this way more complicated and difficult than it needs to be." Am I just insane, or what? Am I wrong to thing there needs to be a tool or tools out there that do most of this?

And don't even get me started on the ridiculously small list of ingredients with inadequate data or difficulty finding something even when scanning it it - only to end up with a final recipe that doesn't have the nutritional data in it!?!?!

Someone please tell me of a resource out there than can figure out volume/portions, weights of the total meal (I can estimate total number of portions and create portion size from there), and decent nutritional data per either of these systems? Sanity is in very short supply here. Any help extremely gratefully appreciated.

Alliwan

MFP's recipe builder is a joke, I agree. Ive been putzing with it all morning, trying to add turnips to an Italian Sausage Soup recipe I already had in there. Took me quite a few tries, about 3 different ways until it stuck. Then hubby, who's making the soup for the crockpot this morning comes to tell me the weight of the turnips was lower because he skinned them. He about got the computer chucked at him!

But I will input the recipe, then once it is done, go by how much it serves. So for the soup, the first time we made it, I waited till the end and then edited how many 1 cup servings there were. Hubby is super precise when measuring so I am less worried about the 1cup being different each time.

So the only way to get it to work even half way for me is to wait till we serve it, then figure out the servings in the recipe. Weird and backwards to do it this way but idk how else to do it with MFP.

Latse

When looking at soups/stews/casseroles it is impossible to insure that every serving will have the same amount of protein / veg / carbs. Therefore calories, even in grams/ ounces/ or cup servings, will never be identical between each serving of the same size. (ever ladle out just the broth of a soup, or pick around the lima beans in a casserole) That is why it isn't easy for a recipe builder to calculate.

In the past I have waited till the dish was complete and measured total volume then divided into servings,(trying to equally divide the ingredients as much as possible) knowing that it was just a best guess, not as exact as 100g of cod loin, or 3oz of sirloin steak.

Breath, let go, and know you are doing your due diligence in recording your intake, to the best of your ability, with the tools provide.

JPW1990

This is my solution, but it's definitely not the one MFP would prefer. I use the recipe builder on SparkPeople. I transcribe the nutritional info for the entire recipe as 1 serving of however many grams it works out to, and enter that under my foods on MFP. If I need to change the recipe, I change it on SP, and then I edit the entry under my foods to reflect any changes, including the amount of total grams, since usually the variation is from using a little more or less meat than was in the package last time.

KnitOrMiss

My problem is that I can't even get to that point. Specifically the recipe I used to make, I'd make a double batch, but single batch is:

1 pound hamburger
1 small onion, diced
1 packet taco seasoning (or homemade)
1 packet ranch seasoning
1 can petite diced tomatoes
1 can rotel diced tomatoes/chilis
1/2 pound frozen corn
1 can pinto beans rinsed
1 can chili beans (with liquid)

Brown meat, drain. Add onion until translucent. Add everything else, simmer 20-30 minutes. Serve with cheese and chips, if desired.

I know all of the veg in this is fairly heavy carb. I'm thinking I can do the first bit and maybe add a small bit of salsa for me, then maybe add some lower carb veg - bell peppers and mushrooms come to mind... to balance out for me, then make the basic recipe for him.

But my problem is, I have no idea what the volume is total (one large pan, two pans if I make a double batch). A double batch would normally make 5-6 full meals (so 10-12 bowls, usually around 2.5-3 cups each, depending). So how do you portion that??? That's where I get hung up. If I could figure out how many cups are in it, exactly, I could portion by cup. But without literally measuring out a cup at a time, I've no idea how to do this. I could do by weight, but I don't know if my scale goes up high enough to do the whole batch at once, etc. Does that make sense?

Alliwan

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

But without literally measuring out a cup at a time, I've no idea how to do this. I could do by weight, but I don't know if my scale goes up high enough to do the whole batch at once, etc. Does that make sense?

I do measure it out cup by cup the first time I make it so i know the serving size. The other option is weigh it, then take out whatever look like a serving size to you and then divide it by how much that serving size weighs. That will give you how many servings are in there.

ETA: that looks amazingly good! Curse this nightshade allergy of mine!

KnitOrMiss

It is fabulous, though I haven't made it since I went to LCHF/Keto... Obviously with all the beans and corn....tomatoes might be manageable... Any recommendations for ways to carb it down?

And I guess one of these days I'll have to break it down...

Mistizoom

What I did with my low carb chili last night was to weigh the entire bowl/pot after cooking (taking into account weight of bowl or pot), then weigh a portion out for me. Not ideal, but I was able to figure out the correct amount to enter that way.

JPW1990

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

My problem is that I can't even get to that point. Specifically the recipe I used to make, I'd make a double batch, but single batch is:

1 pound hamburger
1 small onion, diced
1 packet taco seasoning (or homemade)
1 packet ranch seasoning
1 can petite diced tomatoes
1 can rotel diced tomatoes/chilis
1/2 pound frozen corn
1 can pinto beans rinsed
1 can chili beans (with liquid)

Brown meat, drain. Add onion until translucent. Add everything else, simmer 20-30 minutes. Serve with cheese and chips, if desired.

I know all of the veg in this is fairly heavy carb. I'm thinking I can do the first bit and maybe add a small bit of salsa for me, then maybe add some lower carb veg - bell peppers and mushrooms come to mind... to balance out for me, then make the basic recipe for him.

But my problem is, I have no idea what the volume is total (one large pan, two pans if I make a double batch). A double batch would normally make 5-6 full meals (so 10-12 bowls, usually around 2.5-3 cups each, depending). So how do you portion that??? That's where I get hung up. If I could figure out how many cups are in it, exactly, I could portion by cup. But without literally measuring out a cup at a time, I've no idea how to do this. I could do by weight, but I don't know if my scale goes up high enough to do the whole batch at once, etc. Does that make sense?

I use the weights of the individual ingredients. My scale goes up to 7lbs, I don't know what's standard. To do yours, though, I would weigh each thing before putting it in the pot (or in the case of the beef, after it was browned and drained, and log it as such), then add all the weights together. Even when you're measuring a liquid, you can still record the weight of it for when it's incorporated into the full recipe. Say in this case it all came to 5.5lbs=2495g. On SP, I would enter everything as measured and weighed, meaning weights for dry ingredients and measures for liquid. Enter the serving size as 1, and copy the nutritional info it calculates. I would enter the nutritional info for the full batch in MFP as a new food, 1 serving, with a serving size of 2495g. Any time I served some up, I'd tare out the bowl, weigh the contents of however much chili scooped in, and record it as that many g.

Because you simmer this, you have a volume issue either way - the amount you put in is less than what you have to serve up, because you lose some to steam. The weight isn't any more inaccurate than that, but it gives you a decent approximation compared to guessing what was in a cup and how much evaporated.

DittoDan

I am not sure why you are having problems entering in the info. MFP has volume and weight for just about everything. And anything that has a bar code, will say weight and volume on it. I have probably made over 50 recipes from soups, fat bombs, and many other things. I mostly enter the info in on my iPhone so that I can barcode scan it in.

I have noticed that my iPhone MFP app has a glitch in it though. After I enter in all the info, and it looks right, I save it. But then when I actually use it, it sometimes mis reports. I found a work-around. If I delete it and add it again, it usually comes in correct the second time.

Weight method #1:

For the portions. I do like JPW does. I weigh the empty pot first and right it down. Then later when I am done, I will put the whole pot on the scale, then subtract the weight of the pot. My digital scale goes to 10 lbs.

So, if you find out that your chili weighs 3 lbs and 6 oz. that would be 54 oz. I suspect 8 oz is probably a nice size. But that isn't divisible into 54, so I would bump it up to 9 oz servings. So 54 divided by 9 would be 6 servings. In you MFP enter serving size of 6. In your title of your recipe, put:

Knit's Chili, 9 oz servings

Now, every time you scoop it out, put your bowl on the scale and fill till 9 oz. If 9 oz it too big, then put 6 oz, which would be a 2/3 serving size.

All of you're items above don't look hard to enter. I was going to enter it in my app, but you left out the important stuff like, like the size of the cans. Which is on the label.

A Volume method and another Weight Method:

Now lets say you want to go by volume. You will still have to weigh the whole thing. Lets say you finish your stew, you weigh it and it weighs 2 pounds and 4 oz. Convert that to oz = 36 oz.

Now pull your favorite chili bowl out, put on the scale, zero it. Now taking a one cup measuring cup and pour the chili into your favorite bowl to the level you like. Lets say your chili bowl holds 2 cups (by volume) of chili. Now, record how much that weighs. Now you have the density of the chili. Lets say it weighs 12 oz. So 2 cups (by volume) = is 12oz. by weight.

Your pot has a total of 36 oz. (by weight). Take 36 divided by 12 oz = 3 servings.

Now when you make your MFP recipe, put in your "serving size" 3 servings.
Now, in the Title of your recipe, put "Knits Chili 2 cups serv size"
Or "Knits Chili" 12 OZ Serving size.

Now you can either scoop or weigh it out depending upon which way you want to measure your chili out. If you do it by volume, pour out with a cup measure. Or if you want to weigh it, put your chili bowl on the scale empty, zero scale and poor into it until it reaches 12 oz, or any portion there of.....

My fingers are tired....LOL!

I hope this helps,

Dan the Man from Michigan

DittoDan

DARN, I didn't remember that I had made a blog about this! I thought that this was a new post I made a long time ago. I did look for the post, but couldn't find it. I was looking in the wrong place.... Of course I find it after typing for 30 minutes.....oh well, maybe it will help someone...

Blog #14, Three Ways for Entering Recipes in MFP

It outlines it similar to the above, written a little different.

I hope this helps,

Dan the Man from Michigan

KnitOrMiss

JPW1990 wrote: »

Because you simmer this, you have a volume issue either way - the amount you put in is less than what you have to serve up, because you lose some to steam. The weight isn't any more inaccurate than that, but it gives you a decent approximation compared to guessing what was in a cup and how much evaporated.

When you simmer, you keep the lid on, and the overall volume level doesn't really change, so I don't think you're losing much to evaporation. Or what is is probably negligible.

DittoDan wrote: »

I am not sure why you are having problems entering in the info. MFP has volume and weight for just about everything. And anything that has a bar code, will say weight and volume on it. I have probably made over 50 recipes from soups, fat bombs, and many other things. I mostly enter the info in on my iPhone so that I can barcode scan it in.

All of you're items above don't look hard to enter. I was going to enter it in my app, but you left out the important stuff like, like the size of the cans. Which is on the label.

My fingers are tired....LOL!

I hope this helps,

Dan the Man from Michigan

Even the things I scan don't come up right about half the time, and when they do, if the amount in can is "about 3" it's hard to get a "container" serving, as most scanned items don't have this, unless they are commonly used. Different brands have different values, and it almost always substitutes something that is "off" when I scan.

For giggles:
1 packet taco seasoning (or homemade) (Usually 1.25 oz, I think)
1 packet ranch seasoning (Ditto - packets are about the same size)
1 can petite diced tomatoes (14 oz, usually)
1 can rotel diced tomatoes/chilis (10 oz, usually)
1/2 pound frozen corn (already "weighed'
1 can pinto beans rinsed (15 oz before being drained, dunno after drained)
1 can chili beans (with liquid) (I think also 15 oz can)

And making recipes on the phone is a dog-goned pain in the bootie, if over 4-5 ingredients. And scanning petite diced tomatoes gets diced, of another brand, EVERY SINGLE TIME. I use the no-salt added Rotel, and that messes things up. I tend to use the NSA on everything, the season to taste. I have this recipe saved from a long time ago, but I ballparked the serving size based on how many times we ate. Generic and different brands making logging recipes a total pain. My favorite taco seasoning scans as a utterly different brand, and no way to tell if the nutritional data is even close as it isn't on the package.

Going through all the steps of weighing ingredients and such seems so exhausting and counter-intuitive to me, since my cooking time in the evenings is generally limited anyway, and sometimes the thought of weighing stuff just overwhelms me. Not an excuse, but a reason. Okay, maybe both. Measuring everything by weight as prepping would probably make me a mental case in short order!

I know that if I do this once, I'll be good. I just think that, other than allowing for variations, recipes should not be this complicated!!

DittoDan

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

JPW1990 wrote: »

Because you simmer this, you have a volume issue either way - the amount you put in is less than what you have to serve up, because you lose some to steam. The weight isn't any more inaccurate than that, but it gives you a decent approximation compared to guessing what was in a cup and how much evaporated.

When you simmer, you keep the lid on, and the overall volume level doesn't really change, so I don't think you're losing much to evaporation. Or what is is probably negligible.

DittoDan wrote: »

I am not sure why you are having problems entering in the info. MFP has volume and weight for just about everything. And anything that has a bar code, will say weight and volume on it. I have probably made over 50 recipes from soups, fat bombs, and many other things. I mostly enter the info in on my iPhone so that I can barcode scan it in.

All of you're items above don't look hard to enter. I was going to enter it in my app, but you left out the important stuff like, like the size of the cans. Which is on the label.

My fingers are tired....LOL!

I hope this helps,

Dan the Man from Michigan

Even the things I scan don't come up right about half the time, and when they do, if the amount in can is "about 3" it's hard to get a "container" serving, as most scanned items don't have this, unless they are commonly used. Different brands have different values, and it almost always substitutes something that is "off" when I scan.
<snip>

I agree that a lot of items on MFP are just wrong. I would say that mostly is the homemade stuff. The commercially available stuff is much more accurate. I think the way MFP works, is when a person enters a commercially purchased food, it doesn't automatically get into the MFP database. I think there is a confirmation period, that when more people enter in the same barcoded item, the item will not be released into the MFP database until a certain amount of people enter the item in exactly the same.

You wrote:

"if the amount in can is "about 3" it's hard to get a "container" serving,"

Every can I have ever used has the volume and the gram/oz weight of the serving size printed on it. I'll agree the "about 3" may be approximate, but if you divide the weight of the serving by the weight of the container, you will get an exact amount (You may have to convert the OZ to grams.) In other words, if you do as I say, you may get a number like 3.25 servings. The label will say, "About 3" servings. They are rounding it down.

I hope this helps,

Dan the Man from Michigan

DittoDan

Here is the official MFP comment on inaccurate foods in the database:

Some food information in the database is inaccurate. Can I edit it?

Dan the Man from Michiagn

nicsflyingcircus

I weigh my empty pot before I start cooking(in fact, I have my most commonly used pot's weight written on a white board on my fridge), then weigh the pot plus everything before I serve/store it. For example, my chili I made today ended up weighing just barely over 2600g, so my recipe has 26 servings of 100g. Easy peasy. Smaller recipes (like my cheescake/jello fluff) I use the full weight as my servings. If it weighs 572 g, there are 572 servings and I just weight out what I eat in grams and it is that many servings.

KnitOrMiss

Thanks everyone. Sounds like I just need to quit being a lazy @$$ and do the algebra, which I totally don't mind, I just think there should be an easier way to do it if I have all the data. I'm a data crunching, spreadsheet loving nerd...so this half-@$$ data points guessing servings stuff is for the effing birds!