Has anyone bulked on LC?

monikker

Might be a strange question, but maybe someone here has experience with LC while at a surplus instead of at a deficit. All of the thread arguments in the main forums are just arguments about LC vs CICO for weight loss...but what about for gaining? Have any of you bulked on LC or keto?

I ask because I'm wondering just how low carb I will be when I begin to bulk at the end of this month. I'm actually quite skinny except for my belly, which isn't big or anything. I'm not actually overweight; I'm on a very short term deficit right now. I know that sounds weird but my reason for doing it is a good one. Anyway, I'm gonna be bulking for muscle since I'm skinny. Thinking I'll do surplus on workout days and around maintenance on non workout days.

I'm looking forward to all the carb-y things I want to eat but still thinking about how I can stay low carb-ish.

Sugarbeat

I think surplus just means extra calories. I know the fitness "experts" say to up carbs to bulk but I would think you could up your fat and protein and do the same. I'm in no way an expert though and you wouldn't want go to high on the protein. The guy who runs Nerd Fitness adds carbs with sweet potatoes a lot. Maybe you could just add in some higher carb veggies?

JPW1990

There's an entire subreddit on reddit for people who lift on keto or carb cycling. The owner of it has been doing it for 11 years.

Sugarbeat

Speaking of Nerd Fitness I just remembered one of the people there, Staci, eats lower carbs because of a thyroid issue and she lifts very heavy. I'm not sure if she actually bulks though.

monikker

Thanks I'm gonna check out that link

kirkor

Ya, /r/ketogains is a great resource. I'm cutting now for abs, but plan on keeping keto when it's time to bulk.

SideSteel

Yes it's possible but I think it's likely to be sub optimal for most people. Doesn't mean you can't be successful at it.

If the goal is to add muscle mass then by extension you're going to be doing moderate to high volumes of resistance training. Most people tend to experience better performance by scaling carbohydrates to training volume especially with resistance training.

Fat4Fuel2

*I am no expert, and what I am about to say could be incorrect. I am going off of what I know.* When bulking, eating at a calorie surplus is key. You're trying to add mass. This means bulking adds muscle mass and fat mass. If you are lifting heavy, your muscles will grow from the healing of the tiny tears every time you lift. If you are feeding your muscles (protein and energy (carb or fat), you should experience gains. From my understanding, if fat adapted, all carbing will do it switch your metabolism back to a glucose burning one rather than a keto burning one and make your muscles look bigger because of the water retention. I'm not sure if carbing up will actually help you gain muscle mass any more than staying LCHF. There are plently of people who have put on muscle while in ketosis.

SideSteel

Fat4Fuel2 wrote: »

*I am no expert, and what I am about to say could be incorrect. I am going off of what I know.* When bulking, eating at a calorie surplus is key. You're trying to add mass. This means bulking adds muscle mass and fat mass. If you are lifting heavy, your muscles will grow from the healing of the tiny tears every time you lift. If you are feeding your muscles (protein and energy (carb or fat), you should experience gains. From my understanding, if fat adapted, all carbing will do it switch your metabolism back to a glucose burning one rather than a keto burning one and make your muscles look bigger because of the water retention. I'm not sure if carbing up will actually help you gain muscle mass any more than staying LCHF. There are plently of people who have put on muscle while in ketosis.

Well generally speaking you'll be burning a mix of substrates even on low carb diets rather than an on/off switch, but having said that:

a) Yes you could build muscle in ketosis.
but
b) Eating in an adequate surplus to bring your rate of weight gain to satisfactory levels could be challenging for some people in a ketogenic diet due to appetite suppressing effects of very low carbs
and more importantly
c) Does the addition or increase in carbohydrate have a positive effect on training performance or work capacity.

My belief is that the answer to c) will be yes in a reasonable number of people. I would not claim that to be the case with all people.

kirkor

Just looking at the pure math, I think the fact that fat grams have more than double the calories of carb grams would make a keto bulk even easier! More calories in less volume means you can eat more.

radiii

the ketogains subreddit FAQ linked above does a TON to address a lot of thoughts about carbs and making progress via weight training. For those that *really* find that they can't reach their peak without some carbs, and this really should just be the highest of high performance folks here (aka very very few of us realistically), there are options offered. The TKD protocol (targeted ketogenic diet) is described in great detail and involves leaving ketosis for only very brief periods of time by adding a small amount of a specific types of carbs right before a workout. But again, most folks should not need that.

Anyway, I'll second or third or whatever it is by now the ketogains subreddit, and especially its FAQ. Its a really really great resource and there are some pretty inspirational people there.

SideSteel

kirkor wrote: »

Just looking at the pure math, I think the fact that fat grams have more than double the calories of carb grams would make a keto bulk even easier! More calories in less volume means you can eat more.

In theory yes but in practice not necessarily.

Isn't one of the major benefits of ketogenic dieting that it blunts hunger and allows many people to lose fat without tracking calories because it basically causes you to eat in a deficit via influences on satiety?

That's an argument or position often mentioned by low carb dieters.

One would think this would be a detriment when the desire is to eat an excess of calories.