Exercise and hypothyroidism confusion
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The assumption is, everyone has adequate t3 in the first place. When your ability to convert is compromised so your systems are reduced, one develops issues, the longer they are undiagnosed the greater the number of issues. It is not unreasonable that when you follow the doctors directive to push yourself and keep on pushing you will effectively "run out of" t3. Who is to say that a person with Hashimoto's is any less likely to exert themselves to the 75-90% of their personal effort as you quote; simply in order to attain the activity level they are personally told they are capable of; this being the "only possible" way good health is to be achieved. It is also generally assumed that 150 mc (20 of the correct value in a medium egg) of iodine is adequate for everyone. With or without medication if you are low in the precursor to, or even the minerals etc required for an adequate t3 levels for your specific body it is more likely you will suffer some form of physical "distress". This probably relates to persons who have been undiagnosed for a very very long time. The human body is a marvellous thing it finds ways to function in times of hardship, the longer the hardship lasts or is undiagnosed it carries on in its ingenuity, setting lower and lower priorities for our functions.
For me this all comes back to adequate access to adequate tests and testing to establish where in the endocrine system any problem exists, sometimes one issue is resolved to reveal another. Where one sample is to be taken for tsh only testing there is nothing to prevent the same file being used for ft4 and ft3. Frequently a second or third file is taken for tests for different possibly additional clinical conditions without additional "trauma" to the person being vented, they would probably be relieved these things are being considered even if they are to be discounted.0 -
Not saying it doesn't happen as you describe, but stating the research is extremely limited given the availability of control groups. T3 is a very tricky analytic as it is extremely variable and each person has a different baseline - also in line with TSH, T4, and RT3 - each susceptible to internal and external stressors. This problem is compounded by limited time to treat holistically and with patients being able to communicate with their primary HCP.
What you're describing is what we term a "terminal cascade" where one adverse experience impact another, and another, until it becomes critical. Prevention is key; however Western medicine has operated under a "cover your a__" mode for far too long due to uncontrolled litigation. The entire practice of medicine needs to change, but we need to remove insurance as it is currently being used.0 -
I think a lot of the exercise versus t3 issue comes down to bodily stress. Certain types of exercise, especially habitually, will work down the body if not given proper recovery time -- weight lifting, long distance running, etc. This is why people that do such things usually need to work in recovery weeks (in addition to other mechanisms). This is likely all the more important for those with thyroid issues as we generally tend to be more sensitive to such fluctuations.
For me, I know when I'm increasing my lifts, I tend to take additional rest weeks than other lifters. I've seen the same patterns with other lifters I know that also have thyroid issues. The same probably goes for prolonged caloric deficits (i.e. dieting). If you're doing more low level work like walking and hiking, you're probably okay. But, just pay attention to extended periods of fatigue or feeling run down -- you're likely over doing it (i.e. overtraining) for your individual needs.0 -
lindsey1979 wrote: »I think a lot of the exercise versus t3 issue comes down to bodily stress. Certain types of exercise, especially habitually, will wear down the body if not given proper recovery time—weight lifting, long distance running, etc. This is why people that do such things usually need to work in recovery weeks (in addition to other mechanisms). This is likely all the more important for those with thyroid issues as we generally tend to be more sensitive to such fluctuations.
QFT (quoted for truth). Everybody's different, so it'll take trial & error to find what works for you. I walk and do yoga, and I rest a lot more than most of my "normally thyroided" MFP friends.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22450344
This is one of the few clinical studies regarding T3. Note that the control group consists of athletes, so no correlation to general population, but interesting in the short term.
T3 will be used up in cases of extreme exertion (75-90% effort). Note that this is only a small factor in the hormone balance as all hormones will be out of balance in the short term following periods of extreme exertion.
This is what I am talking about. I have been in the athlete range so this study fits my situation. I can do my normal level of exercise, but then I crash for a few weeks. It appears to be unsustainable, at this point.0 -
I've struggled with energy and fatigue increase after/during exercise. When I was younger and still had a functioning thyroid, I'd exercise for hours, so I am completely aware of what a good workout feels like. I agree that other aspects need testing and treatment, such as D3, magnesium, adrenals, etc. methylB12 and DHA Omega 3s also helped my cognitive fatigue. Doctors don't always seem capable to see how multiple conditions interact too - i also have insulin resistance and anemia with iron deficiency. Some of my meds caused such GI distress that I was not absorbing my thyroid and then those symptoms also got worse. I have to be my own advocate and the primary expert of my body and health.... And I constantly have to remind myself that if my body doesn't burn fat or carbs correctly, eating enough protein is crucial. (PS-just discovered myfitnesspal, so add me if you get my struggle. I'd love the encouragement)0
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I exercise hard 8-12 hours a week (lifting, biking, running, kickboxing) and use a standing desk. My doctor says the exercise is very important for maintaining energy levels. The standing desk was her idea as well. I honestly cannot imagine how much weight and fat I might have gained without all the exercise. It is a frightening thought. So even if it isn't helping you lose weight right now, it is doing a lot of other good things for your body and brain. :-)0
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I am back at the gym with full workout 3 times a week now, and 4 intense, advanced ballet classes between. Just waiting for the collapse to find the limit...0
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Oh! Sidetrack hereReganSaoirse wrote: »I've struggled with energy and fatigue increase after/during exercise. When I was younger and still had a functioning thyroid, I'd exercise for hours, so I am completely aware of what a good workout feels like. I agree that other aspects need testing and treatment, such as D3, magnesium, adrenals, etc. methylB12 and DHA Omega 3s also helped my cognitive fatigue. Doctors don't always seem capable to see how multiple conditions interact too - i also have insulin resistance and anemia with iron deficiency. Some of my meds caused such GI distress that I was not absorbing my thyroid and then those symptoms also got worse. I have to be my own advocate and the primary expert of my body and health.... And I constantly have to remind myself that if my body doesn't burn fat or carbs correctly, eating enough protein is crucial. (PS-just discovered myfitnesspal, so add me if you get my struggle. I'd love the encouragement)
Tried to add you but MFP gave me an error. :-(0 -
lindsey1979 wrote: »I'm confused. I guess I thought once my thyroid levels were "normal" again that I wouldn't feel so tired. I used to sleep the weekend away with 5 hour-at-a-time naps. My TSH was at 80.15 then (T3 = normal, T4 = low, TSH = High). After a month of levothyroxine, my TSH is now 2.64 which my doctor says is normal, but... I will still feel tired at times. I know it could be stress and other stuff, but every now and then I will still spend 12 hours of a Saturday sleeping during the day because I just can't do anything else. I do get up and make myself eat, but I'm still tired.
I mention being tired to my doctor, but I also just had a pulmonary embolism so I feel like the tiredness complaint gets lost in the noise of that. I'm trying to lose some weight too, to prove it's not being a few lbs overweight or a lack of exercise. I have felt a tiny bit more energetic, but... heck it could be a placebo effect just from knowing I'm taking some meds.
Have you guys felt significantly better once your thyroid levels were normal again?
Yes and no. For quite a few of us (myself included), it ultimately ended up being more than just a thyroid issue. After about 10 years of suspecting a thyroid issue and seeing several docs, I finally found a doc that looked at the entire picture of my symptoms and not just TSH or even just thyroid. He did a bunch of tests based on my symptoms (fatigue was one of my major ones - I slept hours and hours like you describe too and still didn't feel rested most of the time). In addition to the thyroid stuff (TSH, Free T3, Free T4 and antibodies), he also tested for liver enzymes, adrenals (DHEA, cortisol, etc.), blood sugar issues (AC1) and common vitamin and mineral deficiencies (D, Magnesium, Iron, Iodine, etc.).
He told me that testing for adrenals was particularly important because if your adrenals weren't functioning properly (which is common for many with a long untreated thyroid problem), you can even initially feel worse starting thyroid meds. This is even in the Physician's Desk Reference, but a shocking number of docs and endos don't check for this at all.
For me, after everything was said and done, in addition to the thyroid, I had low DHEA and Vitamin D (both of which are super common for women with Hashi's) as well as magnesium deficiency (very common in the population in general) and insulin resistance at prediabetic levels. The last was the big shock to me as even at my heaviest, I was only 30 lbs overweight, and on a 5'9" frame it put me in only in overweight category -- I couldn't believe I had pre-diabetes. He told me that this isn't that uncommon for people with long untreated thyroid issues because like the adrenals, this is one way the body attempts to compensate for the underperforming thyroid (or so they think as they often see them together).
So, it's totally possible that one or more of these things may be causing you fatigue as well. I know low Vitamin D and low DHEA in particular have the symptom of fatigue. Also, if you have Hashi's (which is the most common cause for hypothyroidism), it's possible that you actually need more thyroid meds because some of your active hormones (especially T3) are being blocked by your antibodies. That's why it's so important to also test for BOTH Free T3 and Free T4 -- TSH doesn't always show the whole picture -- in addition to looking at your actual clinical symptoms.
Here's a good article that describes the issue: http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/woliner.htm
So, for me, I had to get all of these things sorted out until I felt "normal" again -- we semi-jokingly will refer to these things here as getting your personal stars aligned. The thyroid meds alone helped, but I didn't get full symptom alleviation until the other things were worked out too. I also found personally that I do much better on a primal style diet. Dairy seems to be fine for me, but something in grains, especially the highly processed/refined type, just impact me. When I stop eating them and focus on primal foods, I feel a lot better overall, including sleeping a lot better. Occasional oatmeal seems to be okay (pure oatmeal is gluten free), but anything beyond that and I just start to feel really tired, run down, lethargic, bloated, etc. I suspect it's because those foods trigger the Hashi's or other things like a low level gluten intolerance that ultimately result in the fatigue and other symptoms.
I'm new to the forum and just wanted to say thank you for this message. I was diagnosed with Hashi and my first Dr dismissed any treatment. This will help me talk with my new Dr.0 -
Camilleathome wrote: »Any ideas for weight workouts that would work without weights? I live in the middle of nowhere and do not have access to a gym until I can move to the city
you can lift using water bottles or pop bottles, that gives you an option of 500g to 2kg (going on UK bottle sizes) very easy to hold. another option is to invest in a resistance band which would give similar results.
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Op start gentle and build up exercise that will give you an idea off where your 'breaking point' is so you can go back to your doc to get your meds increased.
I generally walk a lot, do yoga and I'm doing my research to start a heavy lifting programme. I used to swim too but can't fit it around my job anymore with pool opening times for lane swimming which is a real shame because I love swimming!0 -
martinecoates wrote: »Camilleathome wrote: »Any ideas for weight workouts that would work without weights? I live in the middle of nowhere and do not have access to a gym until I can move to the city
you can lift using water bottles or pop bottles, that gives you an option of 500g to 2kg (going on UK bottle sizes) very easy to hold. another option is to invest in a resistance band which would give similar results.
Not sure if someone has suggested this yet, but if you don't have any weights, look into bodyweight workouts -- things made up of squats, pushups, pullups, planks, etc. Check out "prison" type workouts:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/prison-workout-the-jailhouse-strong-routine.html
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