Tips for a Newbie?
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Dragonwolf wrote: »Do you have citations for that? The only research I've seen that suggests such are the classical keto studies, where the kids were fed 60-75% of the calories they needed and what essentially amounts to fortified soybean oil.
I didn't look into the details. I just remembered reading a keto kids study like this one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18676520
Seventy-five children provided growth data. Weight z scores decreased significantly between baseline and 3, 6, and 12 months; height z scores showed no change at 3 months but decreased significantly by 6 and 12 months.
I've also read studies that showed reduced IGF-1 levels in ketogenic diets. IGF-1 is a growth factor.
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wrenna, I might have bad advice, but...I tend to look at "good carbs" as being the ones in foods that are high in fibre. So for example broccoli has 4 carbs and 2 fibre, so the net carbs is only 2 total. Most foods I eat are under 3g net carbs and some days I'm pretty close to 0.
My goal is to stay in ketosis and be a fat burning machine to lose weight. My daily carb limit is under 20 - it's actually set to 16 (5%). My fat is set to 75% and protein makes up the remaining 20%. Total daily calories for weight loss: 1300.
If you add more fat to your diet, you might feel fuller longer.
-T.
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wrenna, I might have bad advice, but...I tend to look at "good carbs" as being the ones in foods that are high in fibre. So for example broccoli has 4 carbs and 2 fibre, so the net carbs is only 2 total. Most foods I eat are under 3g net carbs and some days I'm pretty close to 0.
My goal is to stay in ketosis and be a fat burning machine to lose weight. My daily carb limit is under 20 - it's actually set to 16 (5%). My fat is set to 75% and protein makes up the remaining 20%. Total daily calories for weight loss: 1300.
If you add more fat to your diet, you might feel fuller longer.
-T.
This is how I do it too. Although, I don't normally even count my calories or my fat intake. I just add up the 20 carbs in my head
Good carbs come from veggies that are low in sugar, (Mostly the green veggies, besides sweet peas) Butter, mayo, sour cream, heavy whipping cream, coconut oil, etc. All natural food, without added sugar.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »Do you have citations for that? The only research I've seen that suggests such are the classical keto studies, where the kids were fed 60-75% of the calories they needed and what essentially amounts to fortified soybean oil.
I didn't look into the details. I just remembered reading a keto kids study like this one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18676520
Seventy-five children provided growth data. Weight z scores decreased significantly between baseline and 3, 6, and 12 months; height z scores showed no change at 3 months but decreased significantly by 6 and 12 months.
I've also read studies that showed reduced IGF-1 levels in ketogenic diets. IGF-1 is a growth factor.
Yeah, that looks like classical Ketogenic diet, which is the glorified soybean oil, but it's hard telling, since I can't get access to the full paper to see what the kids are actually eating. The MCT diet is essentially the same thing, but with coconut oil instead (seriously, you're supposed to get 70-80% of your calories from MCT oil) and more carbohydrates. Here's a good breakdown of the four interventions for children with epilepsy -- http://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2012/263139/tab1/
From that paper http://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2012/263139/ :The diet restricts daily calories calculated by the patient’s dietitian with a distribution of 85–90% long-chain fatty acid, 6–8% protein, and 2–4% carbohydrates
That said, your claim was "anything under 100g," while the medical ketogenic diets typically limit them to 10-20g (usually, it's classical keto, or modified Atkins, MCT is rarely used outside of the hospital setting, because MCT oil is expensive and not covered by insurance usually).0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »Do you have citations for that? The only research I've seen that suggests such are the classical keto studies, where the kids were fed 60-75% of the calories they needed and what essentially amounts to fortified soybean oil.
I didn't look into the details. I just remembered reading a keto kids study like this one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18676520
Seventy-five children provided growth data. Weight z scores decreased significantly between baseline and 3, 6, and 12 months; height z scores showed no change at 3 months but decreased significantly by 6 and 12 months.
I've also read studies that showed reduced IGF-1 levels in ketogenic diets. IGF-1 is a growth factor.
Yeah, that looks like classical Ketogenic diet, which is the glorified soybean oil, but it's hard telling, since I can't get access to the full paper to see what the kids are actually eating. The MCT diet is essentially the same thing, but with coconut oil instead (seriously, you're supposed to get 70-80% of your calories from MCT oil) and more carbohydrates. Here's a good breakdown of the four interventions for children with epilepsy -- http://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2012/263139/tab1/
From that paper http://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2012/263139/ :The diet restricts daily calories calculated by the patient’s dietitian with a distribution of 85–90% long-chain fatty acid, 6–8% protein, and 2–4% carbohydrates
That said, your claim was "anything under 100g," while the medical ketogenic diets typically limit them to 10-20g (usually, it's classical keto, or modified Atkins, MCT is rarely used outside of the hospital setting, because MCT oil is expensive and not covered by insurance usually).
I agree with Dragonwolf, you can't extrapolate from this study, which looks at the effect of a classical ketogenic diet vs. and MCT ketogenic diet for children with epilepsy to the general population of children without epilepsy. It isn't valid to pull quotes from a particular study like this and assume it applies to any kid on a low carb diet. I have access to the full text of the study, and the description of the diets is pretty poor, they don't describe them very well at all, except to say that in the MCT diet up to 60% of calories came from MCT oil! That is not a varied diet which someone feeding a child a "normal" low carb diet would follow. The study also restricted calories as well. The point of the study was to compare "classic" ketogenic diet (which they didn't describe at all) to the MCT ketogenic diet. They did not compare a regular diet to a ketogenic diet. In addition, some of the children had other health issues besides epilepsy.
My son is 12.5 and started a low carb diet on his own a week an a half ago, after seeing DH and I have success with it for the past 2.5 years. He unfortunately inherited many of the issues DH and I have (DS has already been diagnosed with Hashimoto's, for example), and certainly is headed towards insulin resistance on a SAD diet, even though his insulin level are "ok" right now. I am completely comfortable with my DS eating like DH and I do. For more "normal" kids who don't have the same genetic predispositions that DS does, I would recommend taking a look at a primal or paleo approach. They allow some starches and plenty of fruits and vegetables but avoid grains. Frankly, no one needs grains (although I do eat some gluten containing foods on occasion myself
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Not arguing, but if you search pubmed, I believe you'll find other studies in which they experimented with increasing calories and protein levels with similar results.
My 100g limit was based on the brain's need for glucose. If you ingest fewer carbs than the brain needs, eventually you'll deplete glycogen and start generating ketones. This is my personal experience, and I believe Phinney and Vogel state a similar range (below 50-100g).
A ketogenic diet works by mimicking aspects of starvation. One of the body's responses to starvation is to limit growth.0
