PISS???????
SRJennings
Posts: 126 Member
A single tear just drizzled down my face. In the 'Low Carb Diet Your Results' thread, Radii wrote the following post this morning.
radiii wrote: »
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11 pounds in two months is good, no matter what may happen with some other
Congrats!
There is a thing called PISS, Post Induction Stall Syndrome, that happens to a lot of people. You drop a ton of water weight initially, as you mentioned losing most of what you've lost so far in the first 20 days, and then there's a stall. Usually its just a couple weeks for most people, but after my initial loss period when I first started keto, I didn't lose anything else for a month or so. I looked for all kinds of things that I could have been doing wrong (and there's nothing wrong with paying close attention to make sure you aren't getting hidden carbs or whatever), but in the end I was doing things just fine and it just took a little while for things to really get moving after that initial burst.
I had an initial loss of 13 lbs and it was life changing to be able to 'diet' without starvation. But, with no additional results for 43 days hope is fading. Could PISS really be a thing? Has anyone had real weight loss after months of a total fail?
radiii wrote: »
» show previous quotes
11 pounds in two months is good, no matter what may happen with some other
Congrats!There is a thing called PISS, Post Induction Stall Syndrome, that happens to a lot of people. You drop a ton of water weight initially, as you mentioned losing most of what you've lost so far in the first 20 days, and then there's a stall. Usually its just a couple weeks for most people, but after my initial loss period when I first started keto, I didn't lose anything else for a month or so. I looked for all kinds of things that I could have been doing wrong (and there's nothing wrong with paying close attention to make sure you aren't getting hidden carbs or whatever), but in the end I was doing things just fine and it just took a little while for things to really get moving after that initial burst.
I had an initial loss of 13 lbs and it was life changing to be able to 'diet' without starvation. But, with no additional results for 43 days hope is fading. Could PISS really be a thing? Has anyone had real weight loss after months of a total fail?
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Some people even gain weight before it starts to drop again. Don't lose heart, it's part of the process. You can check your diary history over those 43 days to see if there's anything consistently present that might be an issue for you (for some people it's dairy, for others it's sweeteners), but beyond that, just remember to listen to your true hunger signals and just keep on ketoing on.0
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This happened to me. I had a large loss then a couple of months where nothing much happened. Up a bit, down a bit.
I increased my fats and kept an eye on my protein levels which seemed to help. I'm losing at a much slower but steady pace now. Look for other clues. How do you feel? Are you losing centimetres? Have your cravings abated? What's your energy level?
You body isn't a machine that converts calories. Sometimes it needs to repair, adjust to changes, take in nutrients or some other wondrous task that we totally take for granted.
Health is not a sprint. Give it time and keep going.0 -
Oh yes, this is real. I am finding that I lose about once a month. The rest of the month is a maintain or even a four pound increase one time. I've seen weight loss described as stair steps on a graph, not a slope. Keep doing what you know is right and your body will catch up!0
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Yes, most definitely. I didn't even have a big loss to start with and have had many, many stalls and some 'bouncing around' down, up, up, stall and then a biggish drop. Sometimes then another gain. But since 23rd January, somehow or another, I've lost 6 kgs (13 lbs). And although that doesn't sound a lot, the difference in the amount of fat on my body is staggering. I've lost so much fat from all over that I'm really amazed, and I've kept my muscles.
I hope you break free from your stall soon. As the others have said, look around a few other diaries, look at your own and see if there's anything you can tweak. My diary is open if you want a look. As an 'over 50s lady' it's harder to lose weight and we won't see the speedy results that the young get, but the fat loss will happen - so many have found this to be true.0 -
This works, too, in part that your body continues to burn fat but fills the extra empty fat cells with water until it is absolutely sure you aren't going to use them again (it is efficient, not wanting to build new ones if there are old ones available!), then it will let that water all go, sometimes all at once, hence the type of whooosh effect! 0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »This works, too, in part that your body continues to burn fat but fills the extra empty fat cells with water until it is absolutely sure you aren't going to use them again (it is efficient, not wanting to build new ones if there are old ones available!), then it will let that water all go, sometimes all at once, hence the type of whooosh effect!
OH thank you for mentioning this. I have only been on keto for about 2 months Lost 10 pounds the first week and then nothing. So, I am like you SRJennings. It's been almost 2 months with no loss.
BUT! Back in it's hay day, I did Atkins and I do distinctly remember the WOOSH effect and trying to figure out what it was. And by all accounts we had to agree it must be what KnitOrMiss mentioned. I HAVE experienced that. I think it might just take a little more time before my body actually believes it doesn't need the cells anymore. Especially after all these years. During that time, with the Atkins Woosh effect weight loss my personal self experiment also showed how important drinking water was for weight loss. If I slacked off on the water intake, the weight seemed to go slower. I don't know why. I was drinking a minimum of 8 X 8oz a day but aimed for 10 or 12. My water intake this time around is severely lacking. So, I guess you know what I'll be focusing on now!
I hope you find your answer and some relief soon.
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Eh. I'm not sold on the fat cells filling with water being much more than "bro-science". I'd like to see more real science vice anecdotal on that one. I read that it's in between cells that water collects. But who knows for sure?
Regardless, I'm with granny. I had a small initial loss then Up down up down. It's a roller coaster, for sure. I had a 5lb scale gain as of Monday. In a week. 5 lbs! There are people that would jump off a bridge with a gain like that in a week...lol
I eat at a 600 calorie a day deficit, and I don't remember any of those calories being from rocks!!
Maybe you can double check your macros / calorie intake at your current weight. Just make sure you give any changes you make sufficient time to make a difference. Good luck!!!0 -
It may be different for different people, but you've lost a lot of weight in the past, right? That messes with leptin signaling. LC is your best shot at improving both insulin and leptin sensitivity. Give it time. I'm rooting for you.0
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@wabmester, I think you said on another thread that if we eat below 20 carbs the protein is released as sugar, or something to that effect. I've been thinking about that but haven't found more info about it. Could you explain, please, and point to source? How do you know all this stuff?
Edited to add: That is amazement, not criticism! 0 -
wheatless, it's mostly basic stuff derived from our physiological needs. There are two organs that ALWAYS require glucose: the brain and the blood. If you eat less than the absolute minimum, they have to get it from somewhere. That minimum is 30-40g/d. Below that, and we make our own from a mix of protein and glycerol.
I posted a really good paper in another thread on the physiology of fasting that covers it all. I'll try to dig it up for you.
Edit: here you go (PDF):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292907/pdf/jcinvest00272-0077.pdf
Phinney and Volek covered some of this lightly in their books, but the paper above gives MUCH more detail than most people want.0 -
wheatless, it's mostly basic stuff derived from our physiological needs. There are two organs that ALWAYS require glucose: the brain and the blood. If you eat less than the absolute minimum, they have to get it from somewhere. That minimum is 30-40g/d. Below that, and we make our own from a mix of protein and glycerol.
I posted a really good paper in another thread on the physiology of fasting that covers it all. I'll try to dig it up for you.
Edit: here you go (PDF):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292907/pdf/jcinvest00272-0077.pdf
Phinney and Volek covered some of this lightly in their books, but the paper above gives MUCH more detail than most people want.
Thanks so much!0 -
Just found this article from Mark Sisson on breaking stalls:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-should-i-increase-carb-intake-for-weight-loss/#axzz3Ydt4lb7y
More or less what I've always suggested, but it's better to hear it from an expert. 0 -
Just found this article from Mark Sisson on breaking stalls:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-should-i-increase-carb-intake-for-weight-loss/#axzz3Ydt4lb7y
More or less what I've always suggested, but it's better to hear it from an expert.
Sure, you couldn't have posted that BEFORE I paid a dietician to tell me to increase my carbs a bit?!
They were always set at 40, but I tried to stay under that. Since Friday I have made an effort to mee the 40. I haven't loset any weight, but I have lost almost 2% fat.
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I know this is a wild and crazy idea, but I'm going to nudge mine up to 40, too, as a result of reading those articles. Just as an experiment. Can always bring 'em down again. I was looking at my first month on MFP before I started LCHF. I went by the MFP auto setting of 1200 cals/ 120 carbs. I lost no weight until I nose-dived to 20 carbs. So I've never tried eating 40 carbs. I want to see what happens.0
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I get anxiety if I go over 20g
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what may be happening is you are eating too much protein vs fat. too much protein can turn into glucose which cause weight gain or stall. I have been on keto for about a month and have lost 20 pounds. for the past week or two I have been losing almost a pound a day. Eating so much fat was hard to get used to but it is working.0
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kleighsamboer33 wrote: »what may be happening is you are eating too much protein vs fat. too much protein can turn into glucose which cause weight gain or stall. I have been on keto for about a month and have lost 20 pounds. for the past week or two I have been losing almost a pound a day. Eating so much fat was hard to get used to but it is working.
Unless you are super sensitive to this effect (I'm sure some folks are) or eating massive quantities, this really shouldn't be that much of an issue. You'll go back and forth as far as cravings or desire for meat and such. I really thing our bodies self regulate all this unless we're ignoring the food signals it sends...0 -
it is actually science. there are lots of books and articles on it.0
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kleighsamboer33 wrote: »it is actually science. there are lots of books and articles on it.
Yes, it is science. But the effects of that conversion (glucleonu....whatever) only affect people that badly in extreme situations (diabetes, kidney problems, random health issues, etc.). The average person will have the protein need regulated by natural hunger. Most people struggle to get enough protein rather than the other way around. Yes, there are people who struggle with this, but it is less of an issue for the average person that studies suggest.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Yes, it is science. But the effects of that conversion (glucleonu....whatever) only affect people that badly in extreme situations (diabetes, kidney problems, random health issues, etc.). The average person will have the protein need regulated by natural hunger. Most people struggle to get enough protein rather than the other way around. Yes, there are people who struggle with this, but it is less of an issue for the average person that studies suggest.
Totally agree with this. While gluconeogenesis is a real thing that happens, IF you find it is happening to you (the only way you'll know really is with regular glucose checks - a "stall" is not an indicator)...its probably because you are not eating a LCHF diet, but more of a LCLF diet, needing more protein to be satisfied because you are not taking in enough fat. Protein requirements on LCHF are a range, not a hard and fast "must eat .8g/lb of LBM or all your muscles will fall off" kind of thing. For most, .6g - .8g is perfectly fine. If you exercise alot, you will probably need more. But you have to exercise A LOT. Lots of heavy lifting, or Lots of running...etc.0 -
OH, and pls dont take what I said earlier about the water and fat cells to mean that I don't believe in water weight and whoosh fairies. I do. I just don't necessarily believe that our fat cells grab water. Maybe a molecule or two, but I don't think they fill up with it. We are 50-60 percent water by make-up, so there are lots and lots of places for water to hide. 0
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All of your responses have helped keep me on track. I have not gotten my longed for 'whoosh' yet but I am staying firm on my LCHF WOE.
I got this from another low carb site. I thought it was an interesting explanation that may help other people who are stuck in a stall.
PISS (post induction stall syndrome) is NO REASON TO QUIT
(1) When you start Atkins induction, your body dumps a lot of water
along with the stored glycogen, and there are other hormonal things going on
that promote water loss. So you lose several pounds of water, sometimes
more. You may even get slightly dehydrated at first. (2) As you continue on
induction, your body begins to adapt to the reduced carb intake. Water
retention is gradually normalized, so that you are no longer dehydrated. A
pound to several pounds of water weight may gradually return. (3) As the
small amount of water weight gradually returns, you're also gradually
burning fat. The water weight increase is offset by the fat loss, showing a
net slowdown or even "stall" on the scale, sometimes even a small increase
on the scale. (4) As you continue low-carbing, the gradual loss of weight in
the form of body fat will finally start showing up, and you'll start seeing
the scale moving down again. This whole process may encompass a period of a
month or more. Seeing the scale stop changing, or even a small increase in
weight is therefore pretty normal for many Atkins dieters, and is not a
reason to drastically change the diet or start doing a radically hypocaloric
thing. It is always a good idea, at any stage, to be careful about your carb
intake, to make sure you're correctly charting your carb intake.
If, after four weeks past induction, you are not seeing the scale start to
move, then you probably want to look at ways to get past the stall. A true
stall is not diagnosed, by the way, unless you've gone 6 weeks without loss
on the scale or in inches. Methods such as counting calories, stepping up
exercise, increasing or decreasing carb intake, cutting out certain types of
foods can be tried, preferably not all at one time (so you know what is
working and what isn't). Also be aware that on low-carb diets, many people
(not just women) seem to lose weight intermittently, rather than gradually.
They will go along sometimes for several weeks with nothing showing up on
the scale, and then all of a sudden, in one day or over a couple days, lose
several pounds. Nobody seems to know why, but this seems particularly common
to low-carb dieting. Patience is a good trait for low-carb dieters to work
on.
I hope this helps everyone!!!! I know MANY of us are in this situation like me right now!! Lets hang on and prove this theory PISS to be right on the nose! GOOD LUCK ALL MY FORUM FRIENDS!
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Doesn't matter since I'm in, all in, for life. The weight loss will come! I won't be giving up on all of the other benefits!0
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I was discussing this with my daughter just today. I lost the water weight and now am sitting with little movement on the scale. But, I am in this WOL to lower my insulin levels and get rid of my IR! Consequently that will lower my BP, BGL, cholesterol, etc. I plan to get off my diabetes meds and just plain be healthier. It is discouraging when the scale doesn't move fast enough, but if I think of this solely for weight loss I would more easily give up when no "progress" is evident. I just have to remember my real goal is health. I have confidence that the weight will come off eventually.0
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geraldinemyoung17 wrote: »I was discussing this with my daughter just today. I lost the water weight and now am sitting with little movement on the scale. But, I am in this WOL to lower my insulin levels and get rid of my IR! Consequently that will lower my BP, BGL, cholesterol, etc. I plan to get off my diabetes meds and just plain be healthier. It is discouraging when the scale doesn't move fast enough, but if I think of this solely for weight loss I would more easily give up when no "progress" is evident. I just have to remember my real goal is health. I have confidence that the weight will come off eventually.
Remember that water weight is real weight. You had to work to get it off too, didn't you? Even if I lose the same pound 100 times, one of those times, it will get the message, take some friends with it as it leaves, and go party somewhere else!0
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