Instant Keto-Flu Relief

wabmester

I have been out of ketosis recently. Towards the end of the no-tracking month, I had some BBQ baked beans and some other too-tasty treats. Once I started tracking again, I realized some of the stuff I ate had significant carbs.

Anyway, today I had <40g carbs, and I ran about 4 miles. My ketostix are glowing purple.

I was feeling mildly unwell around 9pm. I'm sure I had plenty of Mg and K today, but I figured I was probably Na-deficient, so I ate a pickle.

A single pickle, and I almost immediately felt better. Instant keto-flu relief. I'm hoping that was the end of it, anyway.

GoPerfectHealth

Thanks for the tip. I've been drinking chicken broth, and that seems to have a positive affect for me. But I be the pickle would have a good impact as well!

DonPendergraft

Does a LCHF diet fail to supply enough potassium and magnesium naturally? Is that why so many supplement? If so, we share a problem with Vegans who naturally cannot obtain all of the nutrients their body needs.
I've been taking Natural Calm as magnesium supplement. I've not done anything about potassium. Should I? I've made sure to use a lot of salt though.

wabmester

You are pretty much guaranteed to lose sodium when you excrete ketones in the urine.

If you lose too much sodium, your body will try to preserve sodium by wasting potassium, so you can end up potassium deficient too.

There are a couple problems with Mg and other minerals. First, a lot of people start off deficient even before they start the diet. Second, ketosis can make the blood more acidic, which apparently can cause mineral loss.

DonPendergraft

Gotcha. It looks like I may need to watch potassium since I'm doing well with Magnesium. I do get some from salt, and on my long runs I take SaltStick pills which have a nice mix of what you need to replace when sweating since it chemically most resembles what is found in sweat. I've been taking more than I normally would, and when I think of it just pop one during the day. I don't know that I've suffered any symptoms (not sure what they are), so I must be doing OK with it.

annalisbeth74

I had no idea this whole time that the keto flu was sodium-related, until yesterday. Tried some bouillon broth this morning, and no symptoms. Pickles are a great idea! (If you like them, that is.)

wabmester

We had some boxed chicken broth in the house, but I didn't feel like opening up a new package and heating it up. The pickle was convenient and quickly efficacious.

aholt7286

sometimes I just take a drink of pickle juice.........

DianaElena76

When I was pregnant and nauseous, a coworker gave me a pickle (which she keeps in her office "just in case"), and it worked briefly. Who would've thought.

KnitOrMiss

wabmester wrote: »

I have been out of ketosis recently. Towards the end of the no-tracking month, I had some BBQ baked beans and some other too-tasty treats. Once I started tracking again, I realized some of the stuff I ate had significant carbs.

Anyway, today I had <40g carbs, and I ran about 4 miles. My ketostix are glowing purple.

I was feeling mildly unwell around 9pm. I'm sure I had plenty of Mg and K today, but I figured I was probably Na-deficient, so I ate a pickle.

A single pickle, and I almost immediately felt better. Instant keto-flu relief. I'm hoping that was the end of it, anyway.

Major word of warning. If you do coconut oil in anything, and if your metabolism is anything like mine, if you then have a pickle or pickle juice - you could find yourself sprinting to the bathroom with explosive bowels for the next 12-24 hours. I find that I have to stagger this by 1-2 hours on either side of each other not to having this lovely unexpected interaction. I do not know if it is this way for everyone, but it is for me, and I had to severely reduce, and at some points eliminate pickles/vinegar not to spend a week in the bathroom, needing to change my forwarding address.

wabmester

Interesting. I never had any pickle trouble, and vinegar seems to have the opposite effect for me -- it seems to reduce bloating (I assume because of the antiseptic properties nuking some intestinal bacteria).

I'd blame the coconut oil. I only use a little bit of that stuff for cooking. Also, magnesium citrate is infamous for that effect.

Edit: here's an article that agrees with you:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/409857-side-effects-of-eating-too-many-pickles-or-pickle-juice/

Apparently, it's the sodium. Too much sodium can cause too much water to be absorbed in the GI tract (similar to Mg Citrate).

KnitOrMiss

wabmester wrote: »

Interesting. I never had any pickle trouble, and vinegar seems to have the opposite effect for me -- it seems to reduce bloating (I assume because of the antiseptic properties nuking some intestinal bacteria).

I'd blame the coconut oil. I only use a little bit of that stuff for cooking. Also, magnesium citrate is infamous for that effect.

Edit: here's an article that agrees with you:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/409857-side-effects-of-eating-too-many-pickles-or-pickle-juice/

Apparently, it's the sodium. Too much sodium can cause too much water to be absorbed in the GI tract (similar to Mg Citrate).

It isn't the coconut oil by itself. I have bullet proof tea 5 days a week with 1-2 TBSP per serving. I also have it in some fat bombs. I take magnesium citrate daily (for about 2 weeks, was oxide before, but I take low dose 135 mg daily) and hadn't noticed this independently.

I tested this theory for about 6 weeks. It was only when the two things were eaten to closely together that I had the explosive reaction. I have no idea which was the trigger - just that the combo was negative for me. When I hit that stride of massive dehydration after my event at the end of March, I used pickle juice quite regularly to help balance it out, and I was doing smaller doses of coconut oil then, but I was spacing them out too... So I don't think it is large quantities of pickles/juice alone, and I don't think it is large quantities of coconut oil alone (I also have isolated that particular reaction). For me, it is generally only with this combination. Not to give TMI, but the nature of the explosiveness and content with this reaction is very consistent as well.

gsp90x

aholt7286 wrote: »

sometimes I just take a drink of pickle juice.........

I often drink pickle juice. We often have pickle jars with just juice. First sign of a headache I take a few swigs "just in case" sometimes it helps sometimes it doesn't. But, I also LOVE pickles so it gives me an excuse to drink it without seems tooooo weird.

sljohnson1207

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

wabmester wrote: »

Interesting. I never had any pickle trouble, and vinegar seems to have the opposite effect for me -- it seems to reduce bloating (I assume because of the antiseptic properties nuking some intestinal bacteria).

I'd blame the coconut oil. I only use a little bit of that stuff for cooking. Also, magnesium citrate is infamous for that effect.

Edit: here's an article that agrees with you:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/409857-side-effects-of-eating-too-many-pickles-or-pickle-juice/

Apparently, it's the sodium. Too much sodium can cause too much water to be absorbed in the GI tract (similar to Mg Citrate).

It isn't the coconut oil by itself. I have bullet proof tea 5 days a week with 1-2 TBSP per serving. I also have it in some fat bombs. I take magnesium citrate daily (for about 2 weeks, was oxide before, but I take low dose 135 mg daily) and hadn't noticed this independently.

I tested this theory for about 6 weeks. It was only when the two things were eaten to closely together that I had the explosive reaction. I have no idea which was the trigger - just that the combo was negative for me. When I hit that stride of massive dehydration after my event at the end of March, I used pickle juice quite regularly to help balance it out, and I was doing smaller doses of coconut oil then, but I was spacing them out too... So I don't think it is large quantities of pickles/juice alone, and I don't think it is large quantities of coconut oil alone (I also have isolated that particular reaction). For me, it is generally only with this combination. Not to give TMI, but the nature of the explosiveness and content with this reaction is very consistent as well.

Could this also have to do with you having no gallbladder? I wonder. Any thoughts on that?

auntstephie321

Should I be supplementing even if I'm not feeling bad? I eat a lot of sodium but I don't think I get much potassium, though I don't know for sure since it's not listed on food labels.

KnitOrMiss

sljohnson1207 wrote: »

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

wabmester wrote: »

Interesting. I never had any pickle trouble, and vinegar seems to have the opposite effect for me -- it seems to reduce bloating (I assume because of the antiseptic properties nuking some intestinal bacteria).

I'd blame the coconut oil. I only use a little bit of that stuff for cooking. Also, magnesium citrate is infamous for that effect.

Edit: here's an article that agrees with you:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/409857-side-effects-of-eating-too-many-pickles-or-pickle-juice/

Apparently, it's the sodium. Too much sodium can cause too much water to be absorbed in the GI tract (similar to Mg Citrate).

It isn't the coconut oil by itself. I have bullet proof tea 5 days a week with 1-2 TBSP per serving. I also have it in some fat bombs. I take magnesium citrate daily (for about 2 weeks, was oxide before, but I take low dose 135 mg daily) and hadn't noticed this independently.

I tested this theory for about 6 weeks. It was only when the two things were eaten to closely together that I had the explosive reaction. I have no idea which was the trigger - just that the combo was negative for me. When I hit that stride of massive dehydration after my event at the end of March, I used pickle juice quite regularly to help balance it out, and I was doing smaller doses of coconut oil then, but I was spacing them out too... So I don't think it is large quantities of pickles/juice alone, and I don't think it is large quantities of coconut oil alone (I also have isolated that particular reaction). For me, it is generally only with this combination. Not to give TMI, but the nature of the explosiveness and content with this reaction is very consistent as well.

Could this also have to do with you having no gallbladder? I wonder. Any thoughts on that?

I used to have this side effect from having no gallbladder, but once I started getting healthier in general, it slowed, and when I first started LCHF, the reaction ceased completely. I did not have ANY coconut oil in my diet for the first 6 or so weeks. After adding it in, and not until I hit those stages of dehydration and was having more pickles and pickle juice did I start having this violent reaction.

So while the gallbladder being gone may be a contributing factor, I don't think it is the only factor, but I could be completely wrong. Yet another time I truly lament the fact that no one told me a a LCHF/Keto diet could have fixed my gallstones back then! I might have saved myself 10+ years of hell from having no gallbladder!!!

KnitOrMiss

auntstephie321 wrote: »

Should I be supplementing even if I'm not feeling bad? I eat a lot of sodium but I don't think I get much potassium, though I don't know for sure since it's not listed on food labels.

The signs of low potassium and high potassium can be similar, so it isn't necessary to supplement if you are getting a variety of dark/fatty meats and such for the most part. Things like heart palpitations and such are some signs. I'd look up the signs of low potassium. But too much can be dangerous! So this is a fine balance.

The signs of low magnesium are easier to spot. Muscle cramps, twitchy, trouble sleeping, etc.

I only intermittently supplement potassium, but I regularly supplement with magnesium. Potassium bloodwork hasn't changed in years before starting this WOE up to now - range is the same. I don't have historical magnesium, but it runs low in recent tests. Sodium hasn't changed much with diet either, but I salt liberally.

While adjusting, they say you should have a 4500 mg MINIMUM sodium number... I intentionally run it high, and it does not seem to have any effect on my blood pressure (medicine side effect of HBP from another med, so I monitor)... But be very careful with that!

wabmester

Phinney and Volek recommend supplementing with Mg for the first 20 days, just because most people are deficient. They suggest Slo-Mag. The rest you can get from your diet, but be aware that cooking will often cause the nutrients to be lost.