Video Analysis
AquaticQuests
Posts: 947 Member
Hey Folks,
A pal recorded a few seconds of my swimming. I didn't know they were doing it until afterwards.
Not sure at what point in the 2.5km set this was taken, but it was interesting to watch.
Firstly, although I am pulling at a steady rate of 67.5 strokes per minute, it looks so much slower and more effortless than it really is.
Anyway, any things you think need adjustment in my stroke?
Looking at it, it seems to me that the lower part of my body needs to be much higher up in the water.
My head movement on breathing also needs some work I think. Need to keep my head lower in the water when turning to breathe (one eye remains underwater, etc)?
Anyway, since I don't have a coach, any and all suggestions welcome!
http://youtu.be/_qKXmubNuTc
A pal recorded a few seconds of my swimming. I didn't know they were doing it until afterwards.
Not sure at what point in the 2.5km set this was taken, but it was interesting to watch.
Firstly, although I am pulling at a steady rate of 67.5 strokes per minute, it looks so much slower and more effortless than it really is.
Anyway, any things you think need adjustment in my stroke?
Looking at it, it seems to me that the lower part of my body needs to be much higher up in the water.
My head movement on breathing also needs some work I think. Need to keep my head lower in the water when turning to breathe (one eye remains underwater, etc)?
Anyway, since I don't have a coach, any and all suggestions welcome!
http://youtu.be/_qKXmubNuTc0
Replies
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I base my comment on my last swim lessons, and it was something that the instructor said that I was doing.
You have a really nice high elbow which keeps your hand/forearm from dragging in the water but it looks like the elbow still has a lot of bend in it when you enter the water with the hand causing the arm/hand to crossover the center line of the body. Would really need a Head on shot to tell for sure.
If the hand enters the water with a bend in the elbow this increases drag as the arm is not straight in line with the body and direction of travel causing higher hydrodynamic drag ( a play on aerodynamic ) for that initial start of your stroke. Not sure if that makes any sense the way I have described it. My instructor made us do Glide Drills where we would have the arm enter the water but stay at the surface for 2-3 seconds before starting the pull. You don't have to do many of them before you start to understand what she means and start to straighten out the elbow/arm.
I must say looks pretty darn good, although your pool is very crowded. Swimmer envy!10 -
I agree with Juliet, your form is good. Any adjustments would be in the form of minor tweaks. Juliet is right about you arms being bent when they enter the water, it's similar to what both of my kids do - the hand/arm is coming down into the water (in both of my kids its more pronounced - they tend to "slap" the water) instead of reaching out for the wall on every stroke. Think of the stroke shape as being like the tread on a tank - forward & back as opposed to circular. That will also give you a little more length on each stroke.....
As for your head when you breathe, I think you're in good shape - your thought on 1 eye in the water would perfect it that much more & would also bring your lower body up (again, I think that's in good shape - you're talking more about a tweak to perfect it as opposed to it being form that needs work)....
Keep in mind, we are usually our own worst critics. What you perceive as something that "needs work" usually turns out to be something that doesn't & any changes are small to make it more perfect.......0 -
Great!
It's amazing what you pick up when looking from the outside, as opposed to what it feels like when you're swimming.
Yep I see what y'all mean about the bend in the elbow. I think this has been due to a tweak I've made in the last month or so.
I've been having the pain in my elbows that Robertus has talked about having too, so rather than abandoning the high elbow catch altogether, I tweaked my pull to begin hand entry with the elbow already slightly bent, to try and ease the pressure on the elbow that starting the high elbow catch with arms completely extended seemed (to my mind) to be placing on my elbows.
It's a catch 22. But I will still try and revert back to the previous way and have arm almost fully extended on entry like y'all propose, while monitoring the elbow pain, to see whether that really is the cause of the pain, or something else!
More of the catch up drills should help with this!
Thanks a lot guys - getting an external view from video footage really helped!0 -
I'm wondering if maybe you were reaching so far out that you were hyperextending the elbow - maybe it's a matter of finding that sweet spot in between......0
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In between what???
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Lol!girlwithcurls2 wrote: »In between what???
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girlwithcurls2 wrote: »In between what???
LOL - in between reaching too far & not reaching far enough.....0 -
As soon as I read that little comment I remember you talking about that in a previous post.AquaticQuests wrote: »It's amazing what you pick up when looking from the outside, as opposed to what it feels like when you're swimming. Yep I see what y'all mean about the bend in the elbow. I think this has been due to a tweak I've made in the last month or so.
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A friend of mine who is really into golf talks about Tiger Woods saying there's a big difference between "Feel" & "Real" - that it's usually surprising to see how different what you're really doing is from what you think you're doing & that video is the best tool to show that difference. Toward the end of last summer we video'ed some of the older kids & showed them their strokes. It worked so well, I plan on doing it at the beginning of the season......0
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My daughter and I do this every few months since we're both beginners and still refining technique. We want to learn the right way, hopefully without bad habits.0
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I pretty much agree with everything that has been said here. Your arm should be straight as it enters the water and one thing that may help with that is to rotate your shoulder and hip slightly more with each stroke while keeping your head as still as possible (except to breathe) so that you can get a longer reach without over-extending.0
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Ms_J1 is exactly right, particularly on the "Slightly" part. You want to find that point where the rotation helps your length without throwing your energy out to the sides. Your thought should always be driving forward, that will help get the right amount of rotation....0
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Mpeters. Here's a discussion to post your video analysis!!
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The kid ran off to housesit for a friend for a few days before we could get them downloaded off her phone. Stay tuned..0
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I'm late to the party, but you have a good stroke Aquatic. Instead of slinginging the arm and having to worry about elbow drag (which I don't think you have), instead attempt to rotate your body as your hand enters the water. "Elbow drag" matters when your hand enters too soon, but your hand is entering above your head. You can do a drill where you take one stroke and extend that stroke to a side position and kick 5 times, then alternate. It will lengthen your stroke and allow you to use your body to pull instead of being all arms. It also allows you to pull down and catch the water from your forearm instead of just your hand.
I'll post a vid of the drills when I get back home later.0 -
Here's a video of the drill I was describing above. I guess you kick 6 times, not 5... doesn't really matter as long as you're getting full extension and rotation on either side with a pause of arms inbetween.
https://youtu.be/DUYU6z0q1BQ
And here's one for a "catch-up" drill:
https://youtu.be/Fszey7mJSb4. I watched your vid again from my laptop, and your point of entry is good. Many people think that arms are supposed to be on an equal rotation, but if you watch elite swimmers, you'll find a "catch-up" hitch in their stroke... it allows for full body rotation and forces you to use your body to move through the water.
Finally, another one that is very difficult is single arm freestyle with 1 arm swimming and the other at your side. Some would have you do it with the non-use arm held in front of you, but having it by your side really allows for tons of rotation. Rowdy Gaines taught it to me when I was around 8 years old. If you can get good at it, then you'll see a huge difference in how you feel when swimming normally. Or you can do "fist" drills... swimming regularly but with your hands in the form of a fist. In college, we had "fist gloves" to force it. I still do both every time I swim.0 -
You can watch Phelps or really any other elite swimmer and notice the hitch I was talking about. Its not by accident - that's trained into you.
https://youtu.be/3ugLmlrUkMY
OK, I'll shut up now... Don't get to talk swimming much anymore.0 -
I'm going to have to try that 6-kick drill. Body extension is a problem for me.0
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Great stuff TheFran.
I'll definitely be watching those and trying them out!0 -
OK. Let's see if I can do this. We got the videos uploaded and honestly, I was disappointed in what I saw in my stroke. I compared it to a video from Nov 2013 and while my stroke has improved, I'm just not impressed. No wonder I am slow.
One caveat on the upcoming videos is that there is no line on the bottom of our indoor pool lanes and apparently I rely upon them rather heavily to swim straight. and also to judge my distance from the wall before turning so I am bit far off the wall on my flip.
http://youtu.be/O6u98cUMnGE
https://youtu.be/GjdvWprfwx0
https://youtu.be/53ZZsN7tBIA
Thanks for any advice.0 -
Looks good mpeters!
(So that everyone knows, I really do enjoying giving advice... both mpeters and aquatic have great strokes... just giving constructive feedback. Hopefully I'm not seen as a know-it-all or, etc.)
Just like you said, the 6kick drill would be good. You're a bit of a wiggler and from the underwater view, I see your upper body rotating (especially when you breath), but the lower half doesn't rotate at the same time which gives you shorter, less powerful strokes.
The other thing I saw from the underwater angle was that you're not getting a ton of 'catch' w/ your arms/hands because you're not holding your elbows up at the start of the stroke. A great drill for this (or really any stroke where you need to "feel" like you're pulling more water is sculling.
Here's a great video explaining it all. The only thing I'd say is that its not necessary to scull for the entire underwater stroke. You can just as easily scull back and forth at the point of water entry with an emphasis on forearms and elbows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDKYVjKZWoA 0 -
TheFran your input and advice is very welcome and helpful! You'll notice there's a lot of that on this forum.TheFranLover wrote: »Looks good mpeters!
(So that everyone knows, I really do enjoying giving advice... both mpeters and aquatic have great strokes... just giving constructive feedback. Hopefully I'm not seen as a know-it-all or, etc.)
A
I think that's what makes this one of the best forum groups on MFP
mpeters1965 wrote: »OK. Let's see if I can do this. We got the videos uploaded and honestly, I was disappointed in what I saw in my stroke. I compared it to a video from Nov 2013 and while my stroke has improved, I'm just not impressed. No wonder I am slow.
Don't be discouraged mpeters. That's why I love these underwater analyses. They show one a lot about a stroke that you can't tell without seeing it from the outside, and the stroke is good.
I think we are all surprised at what we see when we watch ourselves in the pool.
The good
Bilateral breathing - you are breathing on both sides
Your horizontal body position seems good and you seem to have your body including the lower part up in the water.
Your palm is flat and not cupped and you have clearly deliberately worked on that and keep it that way throughout the pull.
You seem to be kicking deliberately - your legs are not just along for the ride, as mine often are
To Work On
As both you and Fran noted, there is some wiggle and change of direction, etc. I think this is as a result of a number of factors, including what Fran pointed out and others which I will try to bring out here. I should point out that the points below, while related to the wiggle relate to the whole swimming technique.
- there appears to be a cross over past the mid line, more pronounced on the breathing stroke, in the hand that is opposite the direction to which you are facing on any particular breath.
- As Fran pointed out, your current stroke is more of a sprinters stroke with more of a straight stroke underwater (there is some elbow bend but more straight then bend), and your hand actually swings outwards underwater
- It's not easy to see on the videos, but I suspect there is an element of scissor kicking and especially when you are taking a breath, which destabilizes your overall posture and increases drag.
- Due to some or all of the factors above, you are therefore swimming slightly in the opposite direction of the last breath you took (hence the side to side movement across the lane after each breath - see especially video 1 on the return lap after the flip)!
Looking forward
- As Fran pointed out, a high elbow catch is something to look into, meaning your hand would be less straight under the water with more of an angle at the elbow, and less deep, but pushing back!
- Watch out for the scissor kick - keep your legs in good position, and watch out for this especially when taking a breath.
- A number of the issues arise at the point of breathing. So concentrate on seeking to maintain correct posture when taking a breath. If you over rotate at the point of breathing, then your body compensates by altering the catch and pull sending the arm outwards (as in video 1 on the first lap coming towards camera), and also scissor kicking to try and compensate and get you back in good position.
- to help with the above (especially over rotation when breathing), you may also want to look at how your head comes out of the water on each breath, and the idea of keeping one of your eyes/googles under water when breathing and perhaps looking slightly back, will help ensure correct body position while you breath.
I have said a lot on these things as I have had to, and continue to work on some or all of the above in my own stroke, so join the club
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Thanks guys! You've given me a bunch to think about. I would never have put these up if I wasn't looking for good constructive advice and know that I could get it here! One of the reasons I quit our Masters group is that the coaching had stopped when I knew I still needed to improve.
I thought about it more after I posted these and I should just be kinder to myself. It's not all bad and I taught myself to do that flip turn off of youtube videos! If anyone else wants to weigh in, please do. I'll spend some time after work tonight looking at the drill videos and maybe start trying them tomorrow.0 -
I don't have any constructive criticism to give, as I'm waiting for September to take freestyle swimming classes (for now I'm only doing breaststroke and backstroke), but I wanted to highlight the "don't be so hard on yourself" part. You're swimming regularly, and you look 1000 x better swimming freestyle than I do. There's always room for improvement, even professionals have to keep training, and I think working on perfecting techniques is a good way to stay motivated on working toward our goals -- whether they be weight loss, weight gain, weight maintenance, or simply staying healthy. 0
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LCroissant wrote: »I don't have any constructive criticism to give, as I'm waiting for September to take freestyle swimming classes (for now I'm only doing breaststroke and backstroke), but I wanted to highlight the "don't be so hard on yourself" part. You're swimming regularly, and you look 1000 x better swimming freestyle than I do. There's always room for improvement, even professionals have to keep training, and I think working on perfecting techniques is a good way to stay motivated on working toward our goals -- whether they be weight loss, weight gain, weight maintenance, or simply staying healthy.
Thanks! Good for you on taking classes. In hindsight, I should have done that when I started. Who knew that there was so much to it?!0 -
Your Flip turn looks "Fantastic"mpeters1965 wrote: »I thought about it more after I posted these and I should just be kinder to myself. It's not all bad and I taught myself to do that flip turn off of youtube videos!
, I still have about 50% misses on my flips ( to late or to early )mpeters1965 wrote: »Thanks! Good for you on taking classes. In hindsight, I should have done that when I started. Who knew that there was so much to it?!
The best thing I have done is 3 lesson sets ( 5 weeks x 2 lessons/week ) this winter that have improved my technique and speed. Old me 750m in about 25 mins. New me 18 minutes and fresher than the old me.0 -
Thanks juliet3455! I've been working on flips for about a year. I still can't do them with a pull buoy though. I end up pointing towards the bottom of the pool or worse!0
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mpeters1965 wrote: »Thanks juliet3455! I've been working on flips for about a year. I still can't do them with a pull buoy though. I end up pointing towards the bottom of the pool or worse!
Try to tuck your chin to chest a bit more and the booty (and buoy) will follow. 0
This discussion has been closed.