I can do this....with your help (pretty please)

kjs1628

Oh my God, finding this woe may just have changed my whole life. i am your classic forever-dieter...basically been on one diet or another since I was about 20, moving from around 160-195lbs. I am now 39 and sitting at around 180 having lost around a stone since January trying every blooming diet out there (WW, 5:2 and calorie counting at around 1400). THIS feels like the answer to everything. Everything I have read makes sense. Everything gives me hope. Except, I still have a few things I'd really like clarified. Sorry for asking really boring questions, but just looking for a little bit of reassurance.

So Scooby says BMR 1558, TDEE 2143 (at light) or 2415 (at moderate). I have a fitbit and average over last month was 2248, so somewhere in the middle. I usually manage 10000 steps, walking, and do the occasional bike ride. i have just started (on day 5) the 30 day shred too.

I have built up from 1400-1800 calories so far and am staying steady. Loving the total change in mindset I am experiencing and thoroughly enjoying food.

My questions are;

1- if you were me, would you do a total reset and get up to 2200? If so, why?

2- if I do reset at 2200, how long do I stay there? And why?

3- If I do not reset, but go to 15% cut will I still lose as reliably?

4- I am going on holiday soon, the major cause of anxiety. I can just about get on board with not being lighter if people can offer reassurance that I can tone up at least by continuing 30DS and incorporating other lifts.

5- when it says 'heavy lifting' what constitutes 'heavy'?

6- if I totally re-set, then cut by 15% is there a 'normal' rate of loss?

7- Do people still lose weight here if they do not lift?

Phew- I didn't realise I had THAT many questions! Sorry! And thank you, in advance, for any help you can give me!

bonniejo

Ok, so I think it would be good to look at my post "progress log" which is my account of my journey so far. I had a similar past. Started at 1500, went up to my cut level thinking that would help. It did nothing. So I've been doing a full reverse and am now at the end of it. This was really hard because I had a trip to Vegas a few weeks ago, and really wanted to lose a few more pounds before the trip. But it just wasn't working and I was miserable. Not to say this road hasn't had some bumps, but I feel like I'm actually getting somewhere instead of spinning my wheels.

You don't have to lift to lose weight. Many people advocate only starting to lift when you get to around 30% BF (as a woman), since it might make you look bigger if you still have lots of fat. What it does is preserve your muscle mass so you look better when you do lose the weight. IMO, at the point your at, lift if you like it, lift as heavy or as light as you enjoy. More and more studies are showing that as long as the muscle is fatigued it doesn't matter how heavy the weight is, it just takes more time and reps with lighter weights.

heybales

What Fitbit model is that TDEE based from?
And do you manually log required workouts that it is underestimating calorie burn on, like weights or circuit training?
May be others depending on what model.

5 - Circuit training would be best lifting to start with.
The many more reps and lighter weight help with form and nervous system engagement. It has a tip towards cardio so you burn more carb calories - which sets you up for burning more fat later and improving insulin sensitivity if any issues with that.
And it'll set you up better for heavy lifting later.

6 - Depends on what 15% of what TDEE means as a deficit. Then you do the math with that deficit. 250 daily is 1 lb in 2 weeks. 500 is 1 lb in 1 week. With 15% you of course get between numbers, depending on what 15% of YOUR TDEE is.

7 - You will always lose weight if you eat less than you burn. And with minor deficit recommended and more protein, probably not even muscle mass. But, many doing the program trashed their muscle mass from past yo-yo dieting, so to have metabolism up where it could have been, lifting is only way to get muscle back.

Plus mentally it helps many women have a better relationship with their body - they realize they are strong no matter what the scale says, and how the tight outfits might look that are intend for goal weight. Plus every workout you are pushing through as hard as you can, not feeling week. Great diet mental attitude.

kjs1628

Great, thanks for the useful replies so far. I am certainly feeling much more 'my body is a machine' like and that feels a good place to be.

So this morning sees a 0.6 lb gain in my weekly weigh in, but that's okay because sudden beginning of 30DS is likely to cause muscular water retention, right? So I should go right ahead and move up to 1800 calories this week? Or shall I just go for it and go to 1900? 2000? I'd REALLY appreciate yoir opinions on this.

My fitbit was the one, and that's what my 2248 was based on. i just got the Charge HR though, which I guess could be more reliable because of the heart rate bit? I've only had it for two days, so very early days, but clocked an average of 2400 with it. I would say they were 'fairly' normal days....

heybales

So either one of those Fitbit's needs the weight lifting manually logged.

That's because the step-based model is going to badly underestimate calorie burn on the very few steps you are taking, and you'll mostly get BMR level burn, as if sleeping. And hopefully your lifting is more than sleeping.

The HR-based model is going to inflate calorie burn, because HR is not going up because of cardio and increased need for oxygen, which is what formula is based on, but instead because of anaerobic nature of lifting and increased internal pressure.

So both need to have lifting logged manually as Weights in Fitbit.

So your One was under-reporting, the Charge HR will be over-reporting.

But once you have a week of corrected TDEE on Fitbit - use that average like every 2 weeks to use as TDEE for figuring eating goals. It's most accurate.

Slowly move up, especially first few weeks.

And you'll need to unsync accounts to MFP doesn't go changing eating goals when you have manually set some level as the eating goal.

kjs1628

heybales wrote: »

So either one of those Fitbit's needs the weight lifting manually logged.



The HR-based model is going to inflate calorie burn, because HR is not going up because of cardio and increased need for oxygen, which is what formula is based on, but instead because of anaerobic nature of lifting and increased internal pressure.

Can I ask you to clarify this please?

I've gone up to 2000 cals this week, but feels sssooooooo wrong!!! agh!

heybales

The only relationship between HR and calorie burn is during aerobic exercise, where the increased HR is for the purpose of supplying more oxygen to burn more carbs/fat. And steady-state, same HR for 2-4 min.

Because whenever you change intensity, there is lag time for HR to go back down, that just isn't there to same degree as going up. So always looks like higher HR than actually needed for level of effort.

Doing anaerobic (without oxygen) lifting or sprints/intervals, ect doesn't have this same need for more oxygen, not during the short event, and even when it does go up, it's for different reasons.

Next time doing your lifts, before you start, notice your HR just standing there.
Now do your lifts, see how high it is at the end.
Now stand there exactly the same as before. How long for HR to finally drop to the HR you know is required for just standing there? Way longer than you want to wait, does it ever?
Whole time it's dropping, it's inflated for the actual calorie burn just standing there. The fact you burned more during the lift (but not as high as cardio HR would indicate) doesn't mean you burn that much more during the rest. There is some recharging of ATP stores, but that doesn't take much extra energy.

Same with intervals and sprints which at least are a tad more aerobic for a bit, but same fast increase of HR during sprint, then you walk, but HR comes down very slowly.
And the more intervals you do, the slower it usually comes down, and never to the same HR needed for walking.
So inflated the entire time.

And inflated HR is going to be inflated calorie burn.

kjs1628

Gotcha! Thanks. You're a genius!

heybales

Well, being a geek and researching it is perhaps going that direction. Wait until I come up with my own calorie burn formula, then we'll see.

cls67

Heybales I don't know how you keep up with all our questions but Thank you for what you do. It is obvious we all value your opinion. Thanks.

kjs1628

Put on a pound this week at 2000 calories. It's so hard to get out of the negative mindset....this is okay, right?

mymodernbabylon

Yup - cause that would be water weight, my friend. Normal. It'll all settle down shortly.

kjs1628

Thank you! Onward and upwards. 2100 this week!

MandaLeigh123

nice work!!!

kjs1628

Hey! NSV today! Just noticed that my resting heart rate has gone from 64 to 59 in the last couple of weeks, since doing 30DS and some significant calorie increasing. This makes up for lack of inch/weight loss, right?? Yay!

heybales

Congrats, heart health and general fitness improvement.

If you start watching when your workout ends (if it ends on high HR anyway), you should also start noticing the Heart Rate Recovery (HRR, not to be confused with Heart Rate Reserves zone method) starts dropping faster.
Normally measure the high at exercise stop, and 1 and 2 min later.

The amount of drop of course totally depends on your genetic HRmax and exercise range, so you can't compare well with others except by %, but you can keep an eye on how yours is doing.

With Charge HR, should be able to look at your graph at those times on review, I'd note it in the notes for the workout activity, to compare later.

And just because HR lowers doing the same effort because of getting fit, doesn't mean you are burning less calories.

kjs1628

Quick update looking for advice please....

Up to 2100 last week. TDEE appears to be about 2300 according to fitbit. Sometimes as high as 2600, never lower than1900.

I'm hungry a lot (think I've read that that's a good thing). My weighing scales suggest a drop in fat of about 0.3% this week. I'm doing 30DS most days, walking 10,000+ steps most days, lifting a couple of times a week (just starting out on this, so only doing 50reps x 5 with a 5kg bar). I think I look more toned, but the numbers on the tape measure aren't going down.

Since moving from roughly 1400 cals in the last month to 2100 now, I've gained 3 pounds. Now I've seen that written down it doesn't seem so bad! But the extra pound this morning still bugged me!

So my question is, what now? I am fully committed to maintenance throughout the Summer before cutting in September, but how do I know that the pound gain this week isn't because I'm eating too much? I am not gaining initially when I raise my calories, then losing it over the course of the week, I am just slowly but steadily gaining.

Really would just like someone to tell me to stay where I am, or to go all the way to 2600, or what? How will I know when it's "proper" weight gain, and not just water/glycogen/whatever weight?

Thanks.

heybales

If you think the 1 lb gain is fat weight, always do the math to see if possible.

1 lb x 3500 / 7 days = 500 cal over true maintenance - if fat.

So you eating 2100 - was it 500 calories over true maintenance of 1600?

That would imply that either the Fitbit reporting your burn 2300 on average was off by a huge amount of 700 calories (while possible in theory, not likely in practice).

Or you are terrible at logging food and actually ate upwards of 2800 this whole past week on average.

Or most likely - it wasn't fat weight at all.

Now, each week in you increase calories, you could have a day or two before your body decides to speed up, and if those days of eating on average more coincides with days you actually don't burn that much - sure you could be actually eating 100-200 calories in surplus.
But you'd need 17-35 days of doing that daily to see 1 lb gain of fat.

To that last point, say you increased calories and ate 2100 on the day you burn 1900 according to Fitbit.
Even though you likely burned less - you do have an actual overage of calories on that day.
But still not enough to cause 1 lb gain of fat.

Water weight.

How do you know when it's not just water weight - when the math actually works out.

kjs1628

I knew I could rely on you Haybales! Thank you.

So, if yoi were me, would you hang around at 2100 for another week, or would you head on up to 2200?

heybales

At this point it's the mental stress I'd suggest.

If another week at 2100 helps you be assured - do it.

If increasing stresses you out in anticipation, then that stress by itself would likely cause a self-fulfilled prophecy and cause increased water weight - don't do it.

kjs1628

I'm going to 2200. I'm on it, may as well just do it! Yay.

Thanks

kjs1628

Tiny update- 2200-2300 all week, no weight gain, looking trimmer, feeling stronger.

I love EM2WL. I feel like a new woman!!

heybales

Congrats.

kjs1628

Terrible week so far. Totally lost my momento and am really frustrated with myself. Really hurt my big toe doing lunges last week and can't exercise. Seem to have switched straight into 'sod it' mode which I am so disappointed with, because I really felt my head was better than ever re food. Also appear to have put on three pounds in three days, although I do recognise that that can't be true.

Argh!

heybales

Always make sure your eating level is appropriate for your level of activity.

If eating level goal was based on certain amount of exercise weekly - and you aren't doing it - need to eat less.

kjs1628

Hi, so I lost a pound this week at 2300 for second week. What does this suggest? I'm going to move up to 2400, but am interested in the science of that loss. (As in, I didn't undereat or over exercise by 3500 cals)

Thanks.

heybales

Probably stress related cortisol dropped - water dropped.

Is it still elevated and water retained from it?
Who knows.

You'll find out in hindsight.

kjs1628

Have had a stressful week at work. Interesting that that could cause a loss. Will look into that.

kjs1628

Me again, weekly update. So ate at 2400 all week, felt a bit much (in fact, didn't make it two or three days and one day was literally stuffing cashews in my mouth as I walked up the stairs to bed!), and have felt a bit 'fat' this week. Gained 1.6 lbs, one of which I probably falsely lost last week, so let's say 0.6 gain. Would you think, therefore that my TDEE is slightly under 2400 Haybales? How would you proceed from here? Another week at 2400 and see what happens? I must admit, I have done a rubbish job with macros this week, and I've also done sligtly more cardio / slightly less weights than usual. Would really appreciate your input please. I'm keen to get this 'maintenance' phase properly started! Thanks

heybales

Can't tell in a week.
If you ate a mere 100 more than true TDEE daily - it would take 35 days to slowly gain 1 whole pound.

At a weekly level of 1/4 pound - that's water weight fluctuation noise in scale weight.

Plus, your BMR literally changes through the month, your basal metabolism, so really a months worth of data is required to discern anything.

Or at least picking a good 2 weeks for a 250 test.

kjs1628

Does the 250 test mean going up to 2650 for a fortnight and seeing if I gain a pound in a month?