Q&A Thread for June
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Thanks, SS, I'll look into You are Your Own Gym.When you say you dislike lactic acid can you elaborate on that? Are you actually referring to the feeling of soreness?
More the feeling of exhaustion/fatigue and not being able to use the muscles for a bit after working them hard. Not really a deal killer, but it just seems like a built-in disincentive. Negative feedback.
I'd be curious if this is nutrient mediated or training mediated or both and it might be worth exploring that in case it changes things. For example if you just stay a bit further away from failure on average (but still at an intensity high enough to drive progress), or if you experiment with post workout nutrition to see if that helps recovery/how you feel in the hours after a training bout.
At any rate it's worth taking an objective look at it in case you can come up with ways to mitigate it to some extent.
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This is a Noob question too. I have read through a number of the beginner files, and played with some of the calculators, but I am stills struggling with where to set my calories. I am 152lb, I would like to get down to about 130-135. I would say I am lightly active - though I also use a fitbit and get in about 10000 steps per day (at least, more on running days). Right now I am lifting 3x per week, and running or doing cardio 2-3x per week. I am also EBF, which I think is where the wrench gets thrown it for me.
MFP says I should be eating 1500 per week for 1lb per week weight loss. I had previously been using that calculation, but eating back some of my exercise calories, which typically had me eating on average 1800 cals per day. I have tried the other calculators listed, and it comes out to about 1800 calories. I don't know then if I should eat 1800 + calories from EBF, or 1500 + exercise cals + ebf cals. I have been losing, but I don't want to be eating too little.
Do you have any further guidance on this? Or would you recommend sticking with a certain number for a few weeks and monitoring how it goes?
Thanks!
Thought I'd give you some advice from my nutrition text book. I'm assuming EBF is exclusive breast feeding? My book says you can lose up to 1lb/week, and that it takes .67calories to make a mL of breast milk. It suggests to not eat less than 1800 calories per day because milk production can decrease. This is possibly why calculators are giving you 1800, it's the 1200 calories of breast feeding, the number to never go under. Also, make sure you are drinking enough water.
I would say eat 1500 + EBF (which should be around 330cal) + at least half of exercise calories. That will put you at at least 1830 calories, likely 2000 on workout days. Also make sure you're getting enough protein and omega 3s. Does that help?
^ Thanks!
Which text is this from btw?
Krause's Food & the Nutrition Care Process
It's the biggest book I own haha. Also like $150 on Amazon if you want a copy0 -
Thanks, SS, I'll look into You are Your Own Gym.When you say you dislike lactic acid can you elaborate on that? Are you actually referring to the feeling of soreness?
More the feeling of exhaustion/fatigue and not being able to use the muscles for a bit after working them hard. Not really a deal killer, but it just seems like a built-in disincentive. Negative feedback.
I'd be curious if this is nutrient mediated or training mediated or both and it might be worth exploring that in case it changes things. For example if you just stay a bit further away from failure on average (but still at an intensity high enough to drive progress), or if you experiment with post workout nutrition to see if that helps recovery/how you feel in the hours after a training bout.
At any rate it's worth taking an objective look at it in case you can come up with ways to mitigate it to some extent.
Maybe, but it's more about the difference between feeling "energized" or "elated" after a hike or a run vs feeling like "that kicked my butt!" after lifting or HIIT. It's just hard for me to want to have my butt kicked.
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My question is about my weak core and bad posture.
I'm overweight (currently 195ish pounds at 5'5") but very physically active. I do physical labour regularly (helping with a family landscaping business), plus I rock climb, run, walk, and do some bodyweight strength training. I'm also just getting into biking. I feel great in my skin, I have tonnes of energy, and my weight loss strategy is very effective and sustainable. BUT...something that keeps coming up, especially in rock climbing, is my lack of core strength. I've been working on this for about a month now (planks, lying-on-back leg raises, and exercises that engage core e.g. pushups) but I am not noticing any real progress.
Probably connected: I have terrible posture. Unless I am actively trying to sit up straight, I end up hunching forward, rounding my shoulders down. If I try to sit up straight in my desk chair, my midsection starts to get sore within minutes. It seems crazy.
My weak core affects a lot of things: it makes climbing overhangs a lot harder, it makes it very hard to maintain good form when doing squats or deadlifts (which means I end up doing just BW for squats, and deadlifting lighter than I want to, because I don't want to sacrifice form for weight). It affects my balance, I think - when squatting, it is hard for me to not fall backward. I also think my core is causing other problems, e.g. I sometimes get extremely sore hamstrings after spending a day landscaping (in a standing position but bent over weeding, planting, picking up leaves, etc) and some people have suggested to me that a weak core could be causing my hamstrings to "compensate." Not sure if that's *kitten* or not.
Is it normal to be this active and still have such a weak core? Should I change my approach to improving it? Is forcing myself to sit up straight helping strengthen my muscles, or just causing me soreness for no benefit?
Thanks in advance for anyone reading. I am fully conscious of how amazing it is to be able to get free advice from people who actually know stuff.0 -
My question is about my weak core and bad posture.
I'm overweight (currently 195ish pounds at 5'5") but very physically active. I do physical labour regularly (helping with a family landscaping business), plus I rock climb, run, walk, and do some bodyweight strength training. I'm also just getting into biking. I feel great in my skin, I have tonnes of energy, and my weight loss strategy is very effective and sustainable. BUT...something that keeps coming up, especially in rock climbing, is my lack of core strength. I've been working on this for about a month now (planks, lying-on-back leg raises, and exercises that engage core e.g. pushups) but I am not noticing any real progress.
Probably connected: I have terrible posture. Unless I am actively trying to sit up straight, I end up hunching forward, rounding my shoulders down. If I try to sit up straight in my desk chair, my midsection starts to get sore within minutes. It seems crazy.
My weak core affects a lot of things: it makes climbing overhangs a lot harder, it makes it very hard to maintain good form when doing squats or deadlifts (which means I end up doing just BW for squats, and deadlifting lighter than I want to, because I don't want to sacrifice form for weight). It affects my balance, I think - when squatting, it is hard for me to not fall backward. I also think my core is causing other problems, e.g. I sometimes get extremely sore hamstrings after spending a day landscaping (in a standing position but bent over weeding, planting, picking up leaves, etc) and some people have suggested to me that a weak core could be causing my hamstrings to "compensate." Not sure if that's *kitten* or not.
Is it normal to be this active and still have such a weak core? Should I change my approach to improving it? Is forcing myself to sit up straight helping strengthen my muscles, or just causing me soreness for no benefit?
Thanks in advance for anyone reading. I am fully conscious of how amazing it is to be able to get free advice from people who actually know stuff.
This question may sound silly but here goes:
How are you concluding that your core is weak?0 -
samhennings wrote: »samhennings wrote: »Hi there.
I have recently started lifting, and have been following Stronglifts 5x5 since the end of March. For the last 7 weeks I have been to the gym 3x a week like clockwork, and increased my weights virtually everytime.
Having started with the bar/minimum on each lift I am now at:
OHP 42.5kg
Deadlift 95 kg
Squat 80 kg
Bench 50 kg
Row 57.5kg
Last Monday my workout could only be described as "flat". I had no "go" at all. Wednesday was the same, so I opted to take a week off, assuming some R&R was likely needed.
Im due to resume on Friday, but all week have remained feeling really worn out and fatigued.
Im wondering, is this normal? Should I get back in the gym Friday or take some extra time out?
How had your sleep been? Had your day to day activities been the same? How much is your deficit, if you are on one?
That being said, people need deloads or even training breaks now and again - the frequency depends on individual factors. Also, it is not that unusual to have 'off' days or even weeks - usually impacted by other things such as food, sleep, stress, etc.
Thanks to the lifting my sleep has improved a huge amount in this time. It was very poor before I began.
I have taken on c25k recently, been doing that on the off days from 5x5. Im currently at wk3d3.
As to deficit, I have been in a surplus since beginning 5x5. Not a set amount, some days a few hundred calories, others a lot more!
Im not to bothered about the need for a break, I think Im more bothered that after almost a week I dont feel any better!
The C25K training could well be affecting recovery. Sometimes it takes a while for us to adapt to new training and we feel more fatigued (even if the new training is not the same type of thing - running v lifting).
You also may want to look at the timing of your training. Which days do you lift and which days are you doing the C25K training?
5x5 Mon, Wed, Fri
c25k Tue, Thu, Sat
Always first thing in the morning so 24 hours between workouts. My calories are in surplus as well so I would hope energy isnt an issue.
You are probably right, just working out 6 times a week catching up on me. Considering I didnt work out at all before this year its not a bad shout!
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My question is about my weak core and bad posture.
I'm overweight (currently 195ish pounds at 5'5") but very physically active. I do physical labour regularly (helping with a family landscaping business), plus I rock climb, run, walk, and do some bodyweight strength training. I'm also just getting into biking. I feel great in my skin, I have tonnes of energy, and my weight loss strategy is very effective and sustainable. BUT...something that keeps coming up, especially in rock climbing, is my lack of core strength. I've been working on this for about a month now (planks, lying-on-back leg raises, and exercises that engage core e.g. pushups) but I am not noticing any real progress.
Probably connected: I have terrible posture. Unless I am actively trying to sit up straight, I end up hunching forward, rounding my shoulders down. If I try to sit up straight in my desk chair, my midsection starts to get sore within minutes. It seems crazy.
My weak core affects a lot of things: it makes climbing overhangs a lot harder, it makes it very hard to maintain good form when doing squats or deadlifts (which means I end up doing just BW for squats, and deadlifting lighter than I want to, because I don't want to sacrifice form for weight). It affects my balance, I think - when squatting, it is hard for me to not fall backward. I also think my core is causing other problems, e.g. I sometimes get extremely sore hamstrings after spending a day landscaping (in a standing position but bent over weeding, planting, picking up leaves, etc) and some people have suggested to me that a weak core could be causing my hamstrings to "compensate." Not sure if that's *kitten* or not.
Is it normal to be this active and still have such a weak core? Should I change my approach to improving it? Is forcing myself to sit up straight helping strengthen my muscles, or just causing me soreness for no benefit?
Thanks in advance for anyone reading. I am fully conscious of how amazing it is to be able to get free advice from people who actually know stuff.
This question may sound silly but here goes:
How are you concluding that your core is weak?
Not silly! I am here precisely because you guys think before forming an opinion and question everything. That and the part where you know stuff.
In no particular order, I have come to this conclusion because:
- I get sore and tired around the midsection when I try to sit with good posture
- Planks and other core exercises are very difficult for me, and I often get muscle soreness afterwards lasting a day or two
- When rock climbing, good technique is to keep your hips up close to the wall - example. This requires a lot of core strength and I am not very good at it - my midsection quickly tires out and my hips drop backward.
- I have trouble maintaining good upper body positioning when it comes to squats and deadlifts
- On the rowing machine, I feel fatigue in my core way before I feel it in my legs, back, or arms
- Growing up I hated the exercises I thought you had to do for abs (crunches, basically) so I never did them. I just focused on other activities (playing soccer, hiking, etc.) and that continued until pretty recently when I decided to try and improve core strength
Hopefully that's useful info!0 -
samhennings wrote: »samhennings wrote: »samhennings wrote: »Hi there.
I have recently started lifting, and have been following Stronglifts 5x5 since the end of March. For the last 7 weeks I have been to the gym 3x a week like clockwork, and increased my weights virtually everytime.
Having started with the bar/minimum on each lift I am now at:
OHP 42.5kg
Deadlift 95 kg
Squat 80 kg
Bench 50 kg
Row 57.5kg
Last Monday my workout could only be described as "flat". I had no "go" at all. Wednesday was the same, so I opted to take a week off, assuming some R&R was likely needed.
Im due to resume on Friday, but all week have remained feeling really worn out and fatigued.
Im wondering, is this normal? Should I get back in the gym Friday or take some extra time out?
How had your sleep been? Had your day to day activities been the same? How much is your deficit, if you are on one?
That being said, people need deloads or even training breaks now and again - the frequency depends on individual factors. Also, it is not that unusual to have 'off' days or even weeks - usually impacted by other things such as food, sleep, stress, etc.
Thanks to the lifting my sleep has improved a huge amount in this time. It was very poor before I began.
I have taken on c25k recently, been doing that on the off days from 5x5. Im currently at wk3d3.
As to deficit, I have been in a surplus since beginning 5x5. Not a set amount, some days a few hundred calories, others a lot more!
Im not to bothered about the need for a break, I think Im more bothered that after almost a week I dont feel any better!
The C25K training could well be affecting recovery. Sometimes it takes a while for us to adapt to new training and we feel more fatigued (even if the new training is not the same type of thing - running v lifting).
You also may want to look at the timing of your training. Which days do you lift and which days are you doing the C25K training?
5x5 Mon, Wed, Fri
c25k Tue, Thu, Sat
Always first thing in the morning so 24 hours between workouts. My calories are in surplus as well so I would hope energy isnt an issue.
You are probably right, just working out 6 times a week catching up on me. Considering I didnt work out at all before this year its not a bad shout!
Do you make the running parts of C25K as hard as you can?
A good lifting routine needs 24-36 hrs recovery, and if you are going really hard on the running and adding another load within that time, that's just more stress, and likely unrecovered/repaired muscle.
24 hrs between workouts could easily not be enough if all intense. Of course, eventually they won't be.
If you are doing them intense, you might back off. it's not supposed to be running interval training, it's supposed to be jog/walk training to get to point of jogging constantly.0 -
@heybales Im certainly not running hard. Though it is of course relative!
Im running very slow, and huffing and puffing like crazy because Ive never been a runner. Im getting lots of calories in, and the only leg work I do in the gym is squats.
The issue is more a general fatigue. I was hoping from having the week off I would be raring to go now (back in the gym tomorrow) but Im still feeling quite washed out.0 -
We have started doing the You Are Your Own Gym program with my oldest son, who is twelve. Are there any special considerations or advice for a twelve year old who wants to put on muscle? He has a long, lanky build and wants to bulk up some and gain coordination.0
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Thanks so much! Love this thread!0
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samhennings wrote: »samhennings wrote: »samhennings wrote: »Hi there.
I have recently started lifting, and have been following Stronglifts 5x5 since the end of March. For the last 7 weeks I have been to the gym 3x a week like clockwork, and increased my weights virtually everytime.
Having started with the bar/minimum on each lift I am now at:
OHP 42.5kg
Deadlift 95 kg
Squat 80 kg
Bench 50 kg
Row 57.5kg
Last Monday my workout could only be described as "flat". I had no "go" at all. Wednesday was the same, so I opted to take a week off, assuming some R&R was likely needed.
Im due to resume on Friday, but all week have remained feeling really worn out and fatigued.
Im wondering, is this normal? Should I get back in the gym Friday or take some extra time out?
How had your sleep been? Had your day to day activities been the same? How much is your deficit, if you are on one?
That being said, people need deloads or even training breaks now and again - the frequency depends on individual factors. Also, it is not that unusual to have 'off' days or even weeks - usually impacted by other things such as food, sleep, stress, etc.
Thanks to the lifting my sleep has improved a huge amount in this time. It was very poor before I began.
I have taken on c25k recently, been doing that on the off days from 5x5. Im currently at wk3d3.
As to deficit, I have been in a surplus since beginning 5x5. Not a set amount, some days a few hundred calories, others a lot more!
Im not to bothered about the need for a break, I think Im more bothered that after almost a week I dont feel any better!
The C25K training could well be affecting recovery. Sometimes it takes a while for us to adapt to new training and we feel more fatigued (even if the new training is not the same type of thing - running v lifting).
You also may want to look at the timing of your training. Which days do you lift and which days are you doing the C25K training?
5x5 Mon, Wed, Fri
c25k Tue, Thu, Sat
Always first thing in the morning so 24 hours between workouts. My calories are in surplus as well so I would hope energy isnt an issue.
You are probably right, just working out 6 times a week catching up on me. Considering I didnt work out at all before this year its not a bad shout!
Do you make the running parts of C25K as hard as you can?
A good lifting routine needs 24-36 hrs recovery, and if you are going really hard on the running and adding another load within that time, that's just more stress, and likely unrecovered/repaired muscle.
24 hrs between workouts could easily not be enough if all intense. Of course, eventually they won't be.
If you are doing them intense, you might back off. it's not supposed to be running interval training, it's supposed to be jog/walk training to get to point of jogging constantly.
I agree for beginners and for linear programs, but you can program in where you have back to back days.0 -
samhennings wrote: »samhennings wrote: »samhennings wrote: »Hi there.
I have recently started lifting, and have been following Stronglifts 5x5 since the end of March. For the last 7 weeks I have been to the gym 3x a week like clockwork, and increased my weights virtually everytime.
Having started with the bar/minimum on each lift I am now at:
OHP 42.5kg
Deadlift 95 kg
Squat 80 kg
Bench 50 kg
Row 57.5kg
Last Monday my workout could only be described as "flat". I had no "go" at all. Wednesday was the same, so I opted to take a week off, assuming some R&R was likely needed.
Im due to resume on Friday, but all week have remained feeling really worn out and fatigued.
Im wondering, is this normal? Should I get back in the gym Friday or take some extra time out?
How had your sleep been? Had your day to day activities been the same? How much is your deficit, if you are on one?
That being said, people need deloads or even training breaks now and again - the frequency depends on individual factors. Also, it is not that unusual to have 'off' days or even weeks - usually impacted by other things such as food, sleep, stress, etc.
Thanks to the lifting my sleep has improved a huge amount in this time. It was very poor before I began.
I have taken on c25k recently, been doing that on the off days from 5x5. Im currently at wk3d3.
As to deficit, I have been in a surplus since beginning 5x5. Not a set amount, some days a few hundred calories, others a lot more!
Im not to bothered about the need for a break, I think Im more bothered that after almost a week I dont feel any better!
The C25K training could well be affecting recovery. Sometimes it takes a while for us to adapt to new training and we feel more fatigued (even if the new training is not the same type of thing - running v lifting).
You also may want to look at the timing of your training. Which days do you lift and which days are you doing the C25K training?
5x5 Mon, Wed, Fri
c25k Tue, Thu, Sat
Always first thing in the morning so 24 hours between workouts. My calories are in surplus as well so I would hope energy isnt an issue.
You are probably right, just working out 6 times a week catching up on me. Considering I didnt work out at all before this year its not a bad shout!
Your c25k may be impacting recovery and therefore your lifting, however, you should adapt to it to a large degree. I also think that a deload was a good idea - it takes time to build work capacity and 6 weeks is a reasonable time to take a one week deload/training break. When you get back, see how you feel - it may take a week or two to get back to where you were.0 -
Thanks Sara.
Im back on 5x5 tomorrow, hoping it feels a lot better than it did last week. I guess its all just part and parcel of getting of my a** for the first time ever.0 -
When having extreme DOMS on the second day after lifting, which would ordinarily be the next scheduled lifting day, do you recommend pushing on through the soreness and lifting, or waiting another day?0
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When having extreme DOMS on the second day after lifting, which would ordinarily be the next scheduled lifting day, do you recommend pushing on through the soreness and lifting, or waiting another day?
This is a great question.
Generally speaking, if you are performing technically demanding lifts (which tend to have greater potential for injury) and your soreness prevents you from executing those lifts proficiently, I wouldn't train that day or at the very least I'd modify the training for safety purposes.
I don't think that it's arbitrarily bad to train through soreness, but safety comes first.
Now as far as what I would recommend, that depends on context. If I have a client who's generally a bad-*kitten* and has a high pain tolerance and they are experienced, they're the type that are going to train regardless but yeah I'd recommend they train.
Most newer trainees and especially those who don't necessarily enjoy training, I'm going to want them to have the most enjoyable experience possible and excruciating pain isn't a part of that, so I'd generally have them hold off another day, and I'd probably suggest a lot of walking/movement.0 -
I know this question is outside of goal context somewhat; however, I feel there is merit to the question based on the general recommendations that are typically given in the main forums and would like to get your input on something I am pondering that Dr. Israetel mentioned a week or so ago.
And I quote (sorry for the long quote)- "Some people have been recommending dropping volume on a cut and "holding on to your strength" by training heavier than you might on your massing phases.
"Holding onto your strength" is probably a bad idea on a cut. The MOST important variable to retaining muscle on a cut is how much volume you can recover from. The more volume you can do and recover from, provided it's past about 60% of your 1RM, the more muscle you'll keep, never mind the extra workload burning more calories!
One of the best ways to do more volume and still survive is to train at the LOWER end of the intensity spectrum, mostly between 60% and 70% of your 1RM. It's this kind of training that should be done during your cut because it allows the highest recoverable volumes.
I'm not sure what the purpose of keeping strength on a cut is anyway... that's mostly neurally mediated if no muscle changes occur, and you can get that back fast if you don't lose any muscle.
As a side note, the practice of training a bit lighter and doing as much volume as possible is near-universal in experienced bodybuilding during a cutting phase. I don't think that's entirely by accident." -Mike Israetel
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samhennings wrote: »samhennings wrote: »samhennings wrote: »Hi there.
I have recently started lifting, and have been following Stronglifts 5x5 since the end of March. For the last 7 weeks I have been to the gym 3x a week like clockwork, and increased my weights virtually everytime.
Having started with the bar/minimum on each lift I am now at:
OHP 42.5kg
Deadlift 95 kg
Squat 80 kg
Bench 50 kg
Row 57.5kg
Last Monday my workout could only be described as "flat". I had no "go" at all. Wednesday was the same, so I opted to take a week off, assuming some R&R was likely needed.
Im due to resume on Friday, but all week have remained feeling really worn out and fatigued.
Im wondering, is this normal? Should I get back in the gym Friday or take some extra time out?
How had your sleep been? Had your day to day activities been the same? How much is your deficit, if you are on one?
That being said, people need deloads or even training breaks now and again - the frequency depends on individual factors. Also, it is not that unusual to have 'off' days or even weeks - usually impacted by other things such as food, sleep, stress, etc.
Thanks to the lifting my sleep has improved a huge amount in this time. It was very poor before I began.
I have taken on c25k recently, been doing that on the off days from 5x5. Im currently at wk3d3.
As to deficit, I have been in a surplus since beginning 5x5. Not a set amount, some days a few hundred calories, others a lot more!
Im not to bothered about the need for a break, I think Im more bothered that after almost a week I dont feel any better!
The C25K training could well be affecting recovery. Sometimes it takes a while for us to adapt to new training and we feel more fatigued (even if the new training is not the same type of thing - running v lifting).
You also may want to look at the timing of your training. Which days do you lift and which days are you doing the C25K training?
5x5 Mon, Wed, Fri
c25k Tue, Thu, Sat
Always first thing in the morning so 24 hours between workouts. My calories are in surplus as well so I would hope energy isnt an issue.
You are probably right, just working out 6 times a week catching up on me. Considering I didnt work out at all before this year its not a bad shout!
Your c25k may be impacting recovery and therefore your lifting, however, you should adapt to it to a large degree. I also think that a deload was a good idea - it takes time to build work capacity and 6 weeks is a reasonable time to take a one week deload/training break. When you get back, see how you feel - it may take a week or two to get back to where you were.
First day back today. The app commented Id not worked out in a week and recommended a deload, which I took. The workout felt good today, felt strong and not at all as flat as I did before.0 -
I know this question is outside of goal context somewhat; however, I feel there is merit to the question based on the general recommendations that are typically given in the main forums and would like to get your input on something I am pondering that Dr. Israetel mentioned a week or so ago.
And I quote (sorry for the long quote)- "Some people have been recommending dropping volume on a cut and "holding on to your strength" by training heavier than you might on your massing phases.
"Holding onto your strength" is probably a bad idea on a cut. The MOST important variable to retaining muscle on a cut is how much volume you can recover from. The more volume you can do and recover from, provided it's past about 60% of your 1RM, the more muscle you'll keep, never mind the extra workload burning more calories!
One of the best ways to do more volume and still survive is to train at the LOWER end of the intensity spectrum, mostly between 60% and 70% of your 1RM. It's this kind of training that should be done during your cut because it allows the highest recoverable volumes.
I'm not sure what the purpose of keeping strength on a cut is anyway... that's mostly neurally mediated if no muscle changes occur, and you can get that back fast if you don't lose any muscle.
As a side note, the practice of training a bit lighter and doing as much volume as possible is near-universal in experienced bodybuilding during a cutting phase. I don't think that's entirely by accident." -Mike Israetel
Body building as in physique then is what he is talking to?
Regarding strength though, I always found this interesting from respected source.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html/
The basic idea of increasing either training frequency or volume in the weight room while dieting is completely *kitten*-backwards on a tremendous number of levels. If there is a single time when overall recovery is going to be reduced (unless you are using steroids), it’s when calories have been reduced. Trying to train more frequently in the weight room on a diet makes no sense.
From Part 2
The basic conclusion, again from both research and practical experience is that both volume and frequency of training can usually be cut by up to 2/3rds (that is, to 1/3rd of what you did to improve it) but with one massively important caveat: the intensity of that training must be maintained.
Put another way, you could maintain volume and frequency at the same level but if you cut intensity, you will lose the adaptation. Basically any combination that’s ever been looked at only works if intensity is maintained.0 -
I know this question is outside of goal context somewhat; however, I feel there is merit to the question based on the general recommendations that are typically given in the main forums and would like to get your input on something I am pondering that Dr. Israetel mentioned a week or so ago.
And I quote (sorry for the long quote)- "Some people have been recommending dropping volume on a cut and "holding on to your strength" by training heavier than you might on your massing phases.
"Holding onto your strength" is probably a bad idea on a cut. The MOST important variable to retaining muscle on a cut is how much volume you can recover from. The more volume you can do and recover from, provided it's past about 60% of your 1RM, the more muscle you'll keep, never mind the extra workload burning more calories!
One of the best ways to do more volume and still survive is to train at the LOWER end of the intensity spectrum, mostly between 60% and 70% of your 1RM. It's this kind of training that should be done during your cut because it allows the highest recoverable volumes.
I'm not sure what the purpose of keeping strength on a cut is anyway... that's mostly neurally mediated if no muscle changes occur, and you can get that back fast if you don't lose any muscle.
As a side note, the practice of training a bit lighter and doing as much volume as possible is near-universal in experienced bodybuilding during a cutting phase. I don't think that's entirely by accident." -Mike Israetel
Body building as in physique then is what he is talking to?
Regarding strength though, I always found this interesting from respected source.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html/
The basic idea of increasing either training frequency or volume in the weight room while dieting is completely *kitten*-backwards on a tremendous number of levels. If there is a single time when overall recovery is going to be reduced (unless you are using steroids), it’s when calories have been reduced. Trying to train more frequently in the weight room on a diet makes no sense.
From Part 2
The basic conclusion, again from both research and practical experience is that both volume and frequency of training can usually be cut by up to 2/3rds (that is, to 1/3rd of what you did to improve it) but with one massively important caveat: the intensity of that training must be maintained.
Put another way, you could maintain volume and frequency at the same level but if you cut intensity, you will lose the adaptation. Basically any combination that’s ever been looked at only works if intensity is maintained.
Yep, I had read this from Lyle before and that's what had me taking a relook at it. I know Lyle mentions incorporating both metabolic and intensity training; but if he had to choose only one to do, to do intensity training. That's why I included Mike's whole quote as I was thinking maybe I was taking something out of context from previous or other statements. And that of course is still possible, as again, this was just a Facebook posting he did without the context of a whole conversation.
Thanks.
As a edit: I happen to run across someone posting a reference to Lyle on this exactly on Mike's Facebook post and Mike responded back with "Also, I'm not sure where Lyle got that info... I have seen very little direct evidence on that."
I like Mike's opinions and interputations of some research, but don't know what to think about him sometimes.0
