Carry on or do a reset, feedback please.

retirehappy

Here is my story. I had not been losing anything since I had stopped using MFP last spring ('14) I decided to return to MFP, and started logging seriously again in Oct. I got my 1200 cals assigned by MFP and began logging and reading success stories etc. I started seeing all the people having success with Fitbits and other activity trackers, so I bought one the end of Jan. 15. I started happily eating back some of my exercise calories that came from the adjustment figure. Always leaving some room for errors in logging and over estimate of exercise, just in case. I started losing again and have been happy with the results, but in May the lose slowed and I decided to deep dive into the data from Fitbit reports.

Here are my results for the 4 months I have used the Fitbit.
Feb 3.7 lbs. averaged 784 cal. deficit per day. 2214 ave burned
Mar. 2.91 lbs averaged 932.2 cal. deficit per day. 2412 ave burned
Apr. 3.56 lbs averaged 911 cal. deficit per day. 2382 ave. burned
May 1.55 lbs averaged 639.74 cal. deficit per day. 2185 ave. burned
I have been logging 1450-1550 cals. per day to get those numbers.
I am not a math geek type so I could have all this wrong but I used a spreadsheet to figure this all out, please correct me if I am seeing this incorrectly.

As for exercise, I do 10K+ steps everyday. 7 hour long fitness classes per week : 3 x yoga, a results class 2x a week, that varies all the time, 1x body flex. Only lifting is light and high reps. I do have access to cable/weight machines but haven't really used those yet. I am also adding in biking, as a leisure activity. And with the stepping, that includes hikes, I live on the Front Range of CO and do hikes in the Rockies and have hills in every direction from my house, so the steps can be very active.

So my point to all this is do you think I need to do a metabolic reset, to up the amount I can eat going forwards, or should I just keep at it assuming I am that far off on my logging, etc. I am 14 lbs. from my goal weight currently. 8-12 weeks is a long time, considering I could be at or near goal by then.
I have lost and gained the same 40-50 lbs several times in my adult life, I take it off eating @1200-1300 cals. and doing aerobic exercise, then over the course of a few years, I regain it all back and usually a few additional pounds. About 10 yrs ago, I came out of menopause at the top of my weight range and I felt great. But I changed jobs and got stressed out and gained again.
I would love to eat at more cals. and keep the weight off. I'd love to eat all the exercise cals. but just can't bring myself to do that in case my food logging is off etc. The idea of eating 100 more each week for a few weeks does have its appeal Since I am still losing, the case can be made for just continuing on the same but adding in some machines till I reach my goal weight, then add back cals. at 100 per week till I find my natural balance.

I would love some feedback on this to assist me in my decision.

MandaLeigh123

Do you take your measurements as well or is the scale number the way you are tracking fitness? I'm just curious because in the last three months I've gained about 4lbs but lost inches all over my body. So I weigh more but am smaller than I was before. By increasing my calories, I'm able to build muscle and lose fat... my muscle just weighs more than my fat so scale number is up. Increased muscle = increased metabolism.

I can relate with losing weight eating 1200 and exercising a lot. It's a bad cycle to get into because the short term rewards are really satisfying. Long term though....I can also relate with weight coming back every time. I've done the very low calorie diet three times in my adult life and won't ever do it again because it doesn't work long term. Currently, I do have some more fat to lose myself, but I don't want to lose any muscle mass, which is why I have been eating around TDEE for the past 2.5 months and giving my metabolism a chance to reset.

When you say you've been "logging 1450-1550 cals per day to get those numbers" are you saying you are only eating that amount of food every day? Your per day defecit are 600-900 cals per day?

If I read that correctly, I think you are seriously undereating and your body could benefit from a diet rest and metabolic reset. Your body needs fuel for all of that exercising you're doing and at 1500/cal consumed a day, you aren't feeding your body enough. Maybe I misunderstand you?

I don't know your age, weight or height, but have you plugged them into the scooby calculator under the highest activity level, 7-21 hours per week? What number does it give you? Type in all of your information, chose the highest level of activity because you are DEFINITELY there and click on the choice, "lose fat, gain muscle"... that's an estimate what your maintenance calories should be and what you should slowly increase to for full metabolic reset. Let us know what you get!
http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

heybales

Just so you know the bad combo you got.

Low diet with nothing but cardio exercise - muscle loss.
Getting older - harder to hold on to muscle.

That's why you regained back so easily and a tad more - lack of muscle mass, and likely for months after going back to what you hoped would be maintenance - your body was burning less than it possibly could anyway until it recovered.

So those deficit numbers don't hold up to what you actually lost.
So indeed there may be some issues with logging accuracy - or more likely, the damage of metabolic efficiency had already occurred before you got the Fitbit and had the stats.

But confirm you weigh your foods that you eat, and do proper math with serving sizes based on weight.

As above - recommend eating more and go for reset.

I'll suggest using the Fitbit for what it does best though - giving you a better TDEE estimate over a rough 5 level guess by you.
Just may need to correct it for exercise it's estimate isn't good at.
What model do you have?

Look at your average eating level in your weekly email from Fitbit, and your average daily burn.

You need to slowly increase eating to reach burning.

Start at the average eating the same amount daily plus 100 extra - for a week.
Next week add on another 100 daily.
The week after 200 more, and repeat that until you are eating what you burn on average.

You'll need to disconnect Fitbit and MFP so your daily numbers are not changed on you - or just memorize what you need to get if easier.

Eat what you burn on average for the reset time.

Increase the amount of resistance training you do. Doesn't have to be lifting if you don't want to - but it does need to be an overload on your muscles for weight - not time doing it.
Pink 2 lb dumbbell for 40 reps isn't going to be asking the body to increase muscle, 10 lb dumbbell for 10 reps will.
That is the ONLY way to get back lost muscle mass - overload what you got, and during reset body can make more easier than while in deficit.

retirehappy

Do you take your measurements as well or is the scale number the way you are tracking fitness? I'm just curious because in the last three months I've gained about 4lbs but lost inches all over my body. So I weigh more but am smaller than I was before. By increasing my calories, I'm able to build muscle and lose fat... my muscle just weighs more than my fat so scale number is up. Increased muscle = increased metabolism.
I can relate with losing weight eating 1200 and exercising a lot. It's a bad cycle to get into because the short term rewards are really satisfying. Long term though....I can also relate with weight coming back every time. I've done the very low calorie diet three times in my adult life and won't ever do it again because it doesn't work long term. Currently, I do have some more fat to lose myself, but I don't want to lose any muscle mass, which is why I have been eating around TDEE for the past 2.5 months and giving my metabolism a chance to reset.


Yes, measurements, I lost about 7 .5 ins. total, 2 from my waist which impressed me, that is a hard spot for me.

When you say you've been "logging 1450-1550 cals per day to get those numbers" are you saying you are only eating that amount of food every day? Your per day defecit are 600-900 cals per day?
If I read that correctly, I think you are seriously undereating and your body could benefit from a diet rest and metabolic reset. Your body needs fuel for all of that exercising you're doing and at 1500/cal consumed a day, you aren't feeding your body enough. Maybe I misunderstand you?

You read it correctly. Only rarely did I go over 1550 cals.. And I actually think that is awesome because normally I would be at 1250 or so per day.

I don't know your age, weight or height, but have you plugged them into the scooby calculator under the highest activity level, 7-21 hours per week? What number does it give you? Type in all of your information, chose the highest level of activity because you are DEFINITELY there and click on the choice, "lose fat, gain muscle"... that's an estimate what your maintenance calories should be and what you should slowly increase to for full metabolic reset. Let us know what you get!
http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/

65, 5'3", just went down since the original post to 155.6 lbs. I did use Scooby ages ago to find TDEE-20%, but hadn't used it recently, so I put in what you suggested:
BMR 1318
TDEE 2504
That activity level seemed high to me because I am retired and asside from the fitness classes, hiking, walking and biking, which I don't consider strenueous, except for the body flex class, I am a computer geek and am sitting in front of some kind of screen. So went to ExRx.net's calculator, used my fitbit data to determine resting, very light, light, moderate and heavy activity average per day and I got this result:
BMR 1318
Activity Cals: 1428
Total Cals 2746
So maybe Scooby isn't that far off actually sounds more right than 2746 to me.


Heybales, I have been eating primarily within the 1200-1500 cals levels for an extremely long time. Occasionally, I just lose it and eat whatever doesn't eat me first and damn the results. Happens less and less now though, thank goodness. That is why I was thinking I might need the reset, even though I am continuing to lose but slowly. Since the Fitbit I eat mostly near 1500 so the hunger isn't too bad. But I am a foodie and would love to eat closer to 2000 cals per day .

I have the Charge HR and love it for other things besides the burn numbers now. I love the fitbit reports.

So I will need to disconnect MFP and Fitbit, log food in MFP, just adding 100+ per week for 8 weeks or till I reach the 2500 cals. level OR start gaining more than 1 or so lbs in the week. Should I up my activity level in MFP or just set to custom amounts?

Regards resistance training, I am using between 5 and 12 lbs. for the circuit classes and body flex, so I should up that slightly, I think I can do that ok on most of the moves.

My current goal is to get to the top of the range for my short body. If this works for me, I would love to move down to the middle range and maintain there. If that takes a reset, I think I can do that.

Thanks so much to both of you for your valuable feedback. I just needed a nudge

RetiredAndLovingIt

Tagging this so I can see answers & what happens. I am same age, height, & weight, but not nearly as active because my Fitbit doesn't give me that many calories!

heybales

retirehappy wrote: »

Heybales, I have been eating primarily within the 1200-1500 cals levels for an extremely long time. Occasionally, I just lose it and eat whatever doesn't eat me first and damn the results. Happens less and less now though, thank goodness. That is why I was thinking I might need the reset, even though I am continuing to lose but slowly. Since the Fitbit I eat mostly near 1500 so the hunger isn't too bad. But I am a foodie and would love to eat closer to 2000 cals per day .

I have the Charge HR and love it for other things besides the burn numbers now. I love the fitbit reports.

So I will need to disconnect MFP and Fitbit, log food in MFP, just adding 100+ per week for 8 weeks or till I reach the 2500 cals. level OR start gaining more than 1 or so lbs in the week. Should I up my activity level in MFP or just set to custom amounts?

Regards resistance training, I am using between 5 and 12 lbs. for the circuit classes and body flex, so I should up that slightly, I think I can do that ok on most of the moves.

My current goal is to get to the top of the range for my short body. If this works for me, I would love to move down to the middle range and maintain there. If that takes a reset, I think I can do that.

Thanks so much to both of you for your valuable feedback. I just needed a nudge

So first, do you correct the Fitbit for the resistance training?
Per HR may not matter much now - but as you keep going heavier and have less reps and less cardio-type workout - the HR based calorie burn will start being inflated.

What does Fitbit say you burn on average in those weekly reports?

That's your TDEE, no need to guess levels or mess around with time per different zones on average day.
You are getting the figure emailed to you weekly.

Just use that, and indeed increase calories slowly to 2500 or whatever Fitbit says your average daily burn is.
It'll likely go up as you eat more because you'll have more intense workouts and be more active daily.
And that's exactly what a TDEE chart can't discern.

You could set MFP activity level to whatever and weight loss goal to maintain - doesn't matter as soon as you enter in a custom eating goal, those other figures aren't used in any meaningful math.
As long as you unsync Fitbit.

retirehappy

So first, do you correct the Fitbit for the resistance training?
Per HR may not matter much now - but as you keep going heavier and have less reps and less cardio-type workout - the HR based calorie burn will start being inflated.

I have just taken what the fitbit tells me, as I am not lifting the only thing I have adjusted is biking and that has been extremely minimal up to now. I use the burn that MapMyRide gives for the bike activity, logging it on fitbit.com.

What does Fitbit say you burn on average in those weekly reports?

2298 is the overall average for the months I have had the Fitbit. Should I be using the weekly? I thought the YTD would average/level out and I could aim for that level of TDEE.

So no need to go up to 2500, just aim for the 2300 level.

Thanks again

heybales

The Charge HR will be good for calorie burn doing that cardio biking, if you don't want to spend time manually logging.

Because there are many ways the bike based calculators can be fooled, up/down hill & head/tail wind & traffic stops. The reasons usually balance each other out with a long bike ride that is out & back - but short they don't very well.


I wouldn't go for too much of an average from Fitbit, because there are for most people very seasonal changes to their activity levels, and you want to start eating correctly for your current level of activity.

So 2300 is better estimate, and I'd take 2 week averages actually (and whatever average that really is), unless you know 1 of the weeks was just way out of normal up or down. Then wait another week and take 3 weeks average, or leave the odd week out of the mix.

Because with more eating, you are likely to see more activity, and you don't want to start accounting for that 4-5 weeks down the road when the average finally starts coming up, you want to account for that pretty quickly.

retirehappy

OK, I just really needed a sounding board, thanks so much for your help. And thanks to Manda as well. She really inspired me to finally give this a shot.

MandaLeigh123

retirehappy wrote: »

And thanks to Manda as well. She really inspired me to finally give this a shot.

Glad to help! It can be a real struggle mentally upping your calories after years of bad diet habits but just take it one day at a time. You're amazingly active in retirement and that inspires me!

retirehappy

I am just going to continue to use this thread for my progress and further questions I might have.

So I started eating 100 extra calories on June 9th, weight was 155.6. Today, the 20th, weight is at 157.6, exactly two lbs. in 11 days. I think this is about what you should expect? I will up the cals to 1850 come Monday.

I am fitting very comfortably my size 12 clothes and some are too big, and my energy is very good too.

It has been a mental challenge accepting the fact that I had to eat 1650 cals. but after a day or two I actually ended up eating a few above that, and one day very busy day, a lot under it. But over all was right at 1650 for the 11 days.

I also did an overnight trip with restaurant eating involved. Also hiked 3 trails that were above 9000 ft. over the two days. So the activity was about what it would have been if I had been home taking fitness classes and doing 10K steps. (Not backpacking, just hiking, and seeing lots of animals!)

My husband is a bit confused about what I am trying to do, but I am slowly getting the message across that he won't have to put up with my low cal. meals going forwards, and that is a win for him and me

heybales

Great news.

And it may also be there is an attitude change about you that he wasn't about to comment on in the first place either.

Hangry it's called many times, some recognize it in themselves as cranky, or on hindsight they notice they were.

Hiking sounds fun, and breathless for several reasons.

retirehappy

Quick update, been eating at 1850, even a few extras a couple of days. I had bounced to 159 for one day, then dropped to 158.4 and stayed there until today I went down to 156.4.

Is that 158.4 steady state for several days is a clue I am at maintenance or near it, or a sign my metabolism is getting de stressed, since I had the 2 lbs. drop?

heybales

Excellent sign, only a few reasons why you get big water weight drops.
Going in to an extreme diet - well, that ain't it.
Doing a huge endurance cardio event - that ain't it.
Body dropped cortisol levels from less stress from whatever sources they came from - that one!

But it doesn't really have bearing on maintenance. You could still be suppressed TDEE, but body has dropped cortisol a certain amount and dropped water, because the stress level has dropped enough. But it still may not want to speed up to full steam.
Sometimes, at the same time it's storing more water with more glucose in muscles - so scale may show nothing.
But cortisol water tends to be in mid-area, muscle glucose water is throughout all the muscle you use for exercise.
So multi-measurements can show that up.

kmac1196

Nice! I think if it is cortisol than that's a step in the right direction!!!

retirehappy

Thanks heybales, I'll take it as a sign I am starting to de-stress, so will stay calm and carry on upping next week to 2050 and see how that goes

retirehappy

Ok, new week, going for the 2050 mark. Seems like all I have done today is prep and eat food, LOL.
Really hoping this works ok. This seems like a LOT of food now.

ambsnic17

You got this!!!

heybales

retirehappy wrote: »

Ok, new week, going for the 2050 mark. Seems like all I have done today is prep and eat food, LOL.
Really hoping this works ok. This seems like a LOT of food now.

Wouldn't you love to by a fly on the wall with family members discussing this.

"ya, mom is on some new diet - she's eating all the time now, and for some reason, looks thinner"

kmac1196

LOL! Your husband must be so pleased!

mymodernbabylon

heybales wrote: »

"ya, mom is on some new diet - she's eating all the time now, and for some reason, looks thinner"

I think my friends say these things about me - I'm talking about losing weight and yet I'm eating more than they do, plus enjoying it all too!

retirehappy

mymodernbabylon wrote: »

heybales wrote: »

"ya, mom is on some new diet - she's eating all the time now, and for some reason, looks thinner"

I think my friends say these things about me - I'm talking about losing weight and yet I'm eating more than they do, plus enjoying it all too!

Too funny. So far I think I might be enjoying this all too much. But since I haven't had a serious weight gain and I do get little dips here and there. I am sticking with eating

retirehappy

Quick update. I am bouncing around the same 3 lbs. (156-159), I have been at 2050 this week and will be upping to 2150 starting tomorrow. I did have a couple of days when I ate slightly less than 2050 but my fitness classes were not meeting this week due to maintenance on the facility, and I knew I wasn't as active as normal, one day was rest day, I just walked and was just under my 10K steps that day, so figured, since I wasn't hungry I probably shouldn't be eating any more. My activity level will be going back up next week with the cals.

I even had a two mixed drinks last night while out with an old friend. Haven't done that in ages

So at this point I guess I am waiting to see the weight stay the same for a few days, not bouncing. Then eat at that level for a couple of weeks before doing a cut, I will be targeting .5 lb per week then (250cals./day,) since I have less than 20 lbs. to loss at that point. Does that all sound like the reasonable thing to do?

heybales

Good job on sticking through it.

Great job on adjusting eating level when activity level changed.

Life lesson right there.

If you want block of calories, that's fine - are you going to sync Fitbit and MFP and just go by daily method with that deficit then?

retirehappy

I didn't unsync them, I set MFP to maintain, custom set the calories as I upped them each week. The newsfeed showed me the adjusted burn, but I did not eat it. I just disregarded what the diary view page showed. Just kept me saner to understand what I was burning which really helped me while the fitness center was closed. I have been eating more when hungry and eating as usual when I am not so hungry. After the high altitude, long hikes I wanted more. After a stroll around the neighborhood with hubby, not so much. Trying to listen more to my what my body really needs.

I did go up a lb. this morning, but I know I didn't eat 3500 calories yesterday, so keeping calm about it instead of the mental breakdown it would normally have given me. LOL

Since I have a month's worth of data from Fitbit during this reset, I will be looking at that to try and determine if I am indeed healing things as much as I think I am. Need a reality check.

Heybales, you are so kind and generous with your time to help us all out with this. Hope you had a lovely weekend with your family.

Edited to add:
I checked my stats, I have been eating at least 450+ cals per day in deficit from my burn figures, even with some poor logging of restaurant foods etc., that should have resulted in some loss based on CICO. So I am thinking I might have to keep upping my calories for a couple of more weeks to see if it gets better (decreased deficit from the burn no.)

I think the whole point of resetting is to get your body feeding its burn properly isn't it? I'll have to dig deep and find some stoicism. Hope I find some

heybales

Just keep an eye on that Fitbit reported average daily burn - adjust eating goal as needed based on that TDEE.

The syncing will also mess with your macros.
Now if like me you just memorized your desired protein and fat goals - no big whoop that the stated goal would change in the diary.

But sounds like you got the principles down correctly.

Correct - total unstress from what you can control - which at this point is diet, or lack of it.

Thanks for your kind words. I did. I like fixing things, and since work isn't that anymore, I still want it somewhere, and this is easier than a car. Cleaner too.

retirehappy

I have mostly followed the Zone diet since it first came out in the mid 90s. It is my go to when I decide it is time to lose. 40/30/30 is always in the back of my mind when planning. If I go over it is mostly in the fats, and really that doesn't seem to hurt, just makes me less hungry when dieting.

Oh and that lb. I went up yesterday? Is gone today so still in the 3 lbs. range I have been in during this process. Since no serious changes, I think I am still adjusting. No serious lose nor gains, so steady state as far as I am concerned. When not dieting, I can bounce 3-5 lbs. over night anyway depending on what wheat and salt consumption I am doing. I'm not celiac, but I do have joint pain when I over do the gluten, I love bread so haven't given it up, but I have to watch it carefully or I get some serious pains.

I was able to up my body bar weight in my body flex class and maintain good form, that was really a nice reward, since I have been eating more and exercising less. Oh wait, haven't I heard that phrase somewhere??? LOL.

ashmorales311

Sorry guys for just piggy backing off this post, but I am new to EM2WL. My name is Ashley. I am 4'11 3/4's (so close to 5 feet even *sigh*) I weigh 146.6 right now. I have been on my journey for a little over 9 months and I have lost 76.4 lbs. I still have about 25-35 lbs still left to lose. I was eating about 1250-1300 cals for about 7 months, running 3 times a week about 3-6 miles each time and one day a week of Body Bump & CXWorx. Found EM2WL so I started working on raising my cals. Went to 1650 for a few weeks and have upped to 1900 cals since Monday which is my TDEE at a -15% defect. Started a lifting program that started off 4 days of lifting and it will increase to 5 days then 6. Its a 12 week program and I'm at the end of week 2. I'm feeling great, feel like I'm getting stronger, and feel like I'm making gains. Do you guys and gals think I should do a metabolic reset or just stay doing what I'm doing at 1900 TDEE -15% defect? Your advice it need and VERY MUCH appreciated!!

MandaLeigh123

Ashley- you should start a new thread and post this same information. You'll get better help that way

retirehappy

MandaLeigh123 wrote: »

Ashley- you should start a new thread and post this same information. You'll get better help that way

^^^^This, what Manda said.

Shorties have a harder time getting it all sorted out. Takes a good mental attitude. I will follow your progress if you decide to reset . I think it is the 'secret' to permanent weight loss. Hoping it all works out for you and you've done a great job so far it sounds like.

retirehappy

Quick update. I bounced up slightly today, was 160.2, first time I went over the 160 line since I started this, I have been mostly in the 156.5-159 range. I had struggled so hard to get out of the 160s. It was discouraging to see that number.

I pulled my stats from Fitbit for the month I have been doing this, I have an average deficit of 488 cals.,
ave. cals were 1739, with burn of 2172. (Started at ave of 1450, went up to 2050, but obviously I did not hit those higher numbers often.)

For this past week, average intake was 1912.6 cals. cal. burned averaged 2100 daily deficit hit a lower 188 cals. which could just be logging error margin, I was aiming for 2150 this week. I realized I have still been under my eating goal everyday, even the light activity days. I felt like I was eating LOTS of food.

At this point I am not sure if I need to keep upping the cals. or adding some more cardio back in to up the daily burn, really only doing that couple of times a week, plus the walking/hiking. Any suggestions welcome!