Coffee & mould toxins
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GrannyMayOz wrote: »There has never been a Starbucks in my entire state, nor the neighbouring 2 states. Seems strange to me, but then Perth really is backwards for the size of it.
Hubby used to drink drip coffee. 3 builder's mugs before work, a large thermos of it for work and then as many as he could fit in after he came home. We now drink instant half the time, and pod machine the other half. He has his black and I have mine with coconut milk, which I find nice and creamy.
Your hubs sounds like me. Coffee monster! Its annoying though when you drink as much as we do it stops giving you the powerful lift it once did - well it does with me, not sure if your hubby is the same? I must be caffeine resistant by now i think
Coconut milk sounds like it would be lovely in coffee. If only i had the calories available to allow it. I can only eat 1200 cals max really (and thats for a very slow loss b/c im so short and kind of close to target weight) and i must be a bit of a pig because even drinking my coffee black i struggle to keep my calories below 1200).
I've never had a drip coffee machine myself. I wonder how the method of brewing affects the taste? (ie cafetiere vs drip coffee machine). Its all interesting stuff!
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I was thinking (and yes, it did hurt a bit
) I wonder if instant coffee, ground coffee beans & whole coffee beans have different average quantities of mold toxins to each other? I mean, if one type of coffee would generally contain more or less toxins than the others, because of the way the beans have been prepared? - i was thinking maybe the whole unground roasted beans could have less mold toxins than an instant or grlound because it has less surface area? LOL im probably overthinking this a bit much so i'll leave the hypothesizing to the scientists and proceed with just drinking the stuff and noting my findings. Safer that way 
(bwoy, do i have verbal diarrhea!)
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I was just wondering.... because I, too, have noticed that the more tired I am the more coffee I drink and the more coffee I drink the more tired I am.... could it be the caffeine itself? I mean, it's a stimulant, and too much stimulant can have other, less stimulating effects on your body, no? Like when I briefly tried taking some OTC stimulant diet pills years ago and all they did for me was make my heart race and make me nauseous and faint? I'm just thinking aloud here....0
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Keep in mind, too, that for underlying conditions like ADD, caffeine actually has a calming effect. I don't know about coffee itself, because my attempt to fall in love with it ended disastrously, but I do find that blends with herbs and such have better effect on my various sleepiness than caffeine alone.0
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Yeah, I don't know if they still do this, but a lot of doctors would tell parents to give their child with suspected ADHD a cup of coffee and see if it calms them (as a diagnostic, because kids without ADHD are hyped up by the caffeine whereas kids with ADHD are calmed by it). That explains why my husband can drink coffee, Coke, and tea well into the night and not have problems sleeping.0
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Hi Mami, maybe the caffeine would have some part to play, i expect. But apparently when these mold toxins are very low you dont get such pronounced crashes.
Who knows if this is true, but id be drinking coffee anyway, and im guessing most coffees contain similar levels of caffeine, so any effects from the caffeine would remain pretty consistent whilst noting any differences in physical results from different coffees. I can see that more than likely there wont be - not a perceptible one anyway - but its worth a look-see, just incase. I wont have lost anything because i would have been drinking it anyway and it adds a little variety along the way. 0 -
I was just wondering.... because I, too, have noticed that the more tired I am the more coffee I drink and the more coffee I drink the more tired I am.... could it be the caffeine itself? I mean, it's a stimulant, and too much stimulant can have other, less stimulating effects on your body, no? Like when I briefly tried taking some OTC stimulant diet pills years ago and all they did for me was make my heart race and make me nauseous and faint? I'm just thinking aloud here....
That was my next thought -- one cup is fine, but 7-8 is a lot. Add to that however much sucralose you add to each time 7-8, and that's a lot. Even if it's, say, a teaspoon, that's over 2.5 tablespoons of sucralose over the course of the day. That's quite a bit, and could be affecting you. (Also, even assuming they're 8oz mugs, which they probably aren't and are 12-16oz, you're looking at 64oz, which is more than most people drink of even water in a day. You might as well be on an IV drip of caffeine and sucralose, which probably doesn't help your energy levels and feelings.)
Try cutting back to 1 mug a day and replacing the rest with a caffeine free, unsweetened herbal tea and/or water and see how you feel.0 -
CoconuttyMummy wrote: »im guessing most coffees contain similar levels of caffeine
Cheaper coffees made with Robusta beans (or blends including same) actually have more caffeine -- roughly double (~ 2.2% vs ~ 1.2%) -- than the higher quality coffees made with all Arabica beans.
That shot of espresso the barista hands you probably has quite a bit less caffeine in it than the builder's size mug of Folgers or Maxwell House.
For years I drank tons of cheap office quality swill (loaded with sugar too, now long since out of my coffee) prevalent in the 80's and 90's and was totally wired on caffeine and had to break the cycle so I gave it up. When I started to drink coffee again it was one good one in the morning, and none at work. I've since relaxed a little and will have a triple tall Americano (or even two!) later in the day occasionally, but I know I can stop at any time with very little transition effect.
Some people metabolise caffeine faster than others which is why coffee affects some so much more than others.
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Hey I just learned something... good coffee is a source of Niacin.Another important byproduct produced during the decomposition of trigonelline is nicotinic acid, or vitamin B3 - more commonly known as niacin. Depending on roasting conditions niacin can increase up to ten times its initial concentration, providing anywhere between 1 mg of niacin per cup for Americano type coffees and roughly two to three times this concentration in espresso type beverages. When one considers that most Americans consume about 3.2 cups of coffee per day according to the NCA (2008) – makes coffee an ample source of dietary niacin.
https://www.coffeechemistry.com/library/coffee-science-publications/unlocking-coffee-s-chemical-composition-part-1
Interesting site overall.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »I was just wondering.... because I, too, have noticed that the more tired I am the more coffee I drink and the more coffee I drink the more tired I am.... could it be the caffeine itself? I mean, it's a stimulant, and too much stimulant can have other, less stimulating effects on your body, no? Like when I briefly tried taking some OTC stimulant diet pills years ago and all they did for me was make my heart race and make me nauseous and faint? I'm just thinking aloud here....
That was my next thought -- one cup is fine, but 7-8 is a lot. Add to that however much sucralose you add to each time 7-8, and that's a lot. Even if it's, say, a teaspoon, that's over 2.5 tablespoons of sucralose over the course of the day. That's quite a bit, and could be affecting you. (Also, even assuming they're 8oz mugs, which they probably aren't and are 12-16oz, you're looking at 64oz, which is more than most people drink of even water in a day. You might as well be on an IV drip of caffeine and sucralose, which probably doesn't help your energy levels and feelings.)
Try cutting back to 1 mug a day and replacing the rest with a caffeine free, unsweetened herbal tea and/or water and see how you feel.
Haha, i had to LOL at your IV drip comment. Quite true, really
Perhaps after experimenting with all the coffees available to me i will give it a break and reduce my consumption a little. I appreciate the advice, Dragonwolf - certainly if i dont find a coffee that makes me feel like Dave Asprey says is possible, i will swap a good proportion of my coffees for herbal teas. I couldnt drink regular tea black (i dont think, bt then again i would never have thought id be slurping on black coffee either) so herbal teas do sound like a good option. Do you drink them? Are there any in particular that you recommend?
I'll continue to test the coffees 1st though. The variety available to me is finite so it will only take me a couple weeks to work through the majority of them.
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »im guessing most coffees contain similar levels of caffeine
Cheaper coffees made with Robusta beans (or blends including same) actually have more caffeine -- roughly double (~ 2.2% vs ~ 1.2%) -- than the higher quality coffees made with all Arabica beans.
That shot of espresso the barista hands you probably has quite a bit less caffeine in it than the builder's size mug of Folgers or Maxwell House.
For years I drank tons of cheap office quality swill (loaded with sugar too, now long since out of my coffee) prevalent in the 80's and 90's and was totally wired on caffeine and had to break the cycle so I gave it up. When I started to drink coffee again it was one good one in the morning, and none at work. I've since relaxed a little and will have a triple tall Americano (or even two!) later in the day occasionally, but I know I can stop at any time with very little transition effect.
Some people metabolise caffeine faster than others which is why coffee affects some so much more than others.
Wow, that is surprising, the caffeine levels. I figured they would be similar, but if anything youd guess the barista espresso would have stronger caffeine than a mug of cheap builders coffee. Learn something new every day.
I dont buy the very lower-end coffees and to my knowledge nothing i choose contains Robusta beans, so i guess that does still mean that the coffees i'll be personally drinking will all have similar caffeine levels.
Thanks for the link - i'll read it now.
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I like this nugget in the 1st paragraph:
"Throughout history, coffee has taken on several physical transformations, initially serving as an energy source when nomadic tribes combined coffee berries with animal fat as an early form of an energy bar."
Sounds like the 1st fat bomb!:)0 -
Folgers is disgusting, lol. But then again I only drink 2 cups a day, and we buy organic beans from Mexico that are locally roasted, and we grind whole beans just before brewing. At times we mix with Nabob Organic as it's quite a bit cheaper. Since we only drink a couple cups each, we want them to taste like they are worth it.0
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »CoconuttyMummy wrote: »im guessing most coffees contain similar levels of caffeine
Cheaper coffees made with Robusta beans (or blends including same) actually have more caffeine -- roughly double (~ 2.2% vs ~ 1.2%) -- than the higher quality coffees made with all Arabica beans.
That shot of espresso the barista hands you probably has quite a bit less caffeine in it than the builder's size mug of Folgers or Maxwell House.
For years I drank tons of cheap office quality swill (loaded with sugar too, now long since out of my coffee) prevalent in the 80's and 90's and was totally wired on caffeine and had to break the cycle so I gave it up. When I started to drink coffee again it was one good one in the morning, and none at work. I've since relaxed a little and will have a triple tall Americano (or even two!) later in the day occasionally, but I know I can stop at any time with very little transition effect.
Some people metabolise caffeine faster than others which is why coffee affects some so much more than others.
Wow, that is surprising, the caffeine levels. I figured they would be similar, but if anything youd guess the barista espresso would have stronger caffeine than a mug of cheap builders coffee. Learn something new every day.
I dont buy the very lower-end coffees and to my knowledge nothing i choose contains Robusta beans, so i guess that does still mean that the coffees i'll be personally drinking will all have similar caffeine levels.
Thanks for the link - i'll read it now.
It's my understanding that roast time(?) affects caffeine levels, too. Dark roasts actually have less caffeine than light roasts. Go figure, right?CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »I was just wondering.... because I, too, have noticed that the more tired I am the more coffee I drink and the more coffee I drink the more tired I am.... could it be the caffeine itself? I mean, it's a stimulant, and too much stimulant can have other, less stimulating effects on your body, no? Like when I briefly tried taking some OTC stimulant diet pills years ago and all they did for me was make my heart race and make me nauseous and faint? I'm just thinking aloud here....
That was my next thought -- one cup is fine, but 7-8 is a lot. Add to that however much sucralose you add to each time 7-8, and that's a lot. Even if it's, say, a teaspoon, that's over 2.5 tablespoons of sucralose over the course of the day. That's quite a bit, and could be affecting you. (Also, even assuming they're 8oz mugs, which they probably aren't and are 12-16oz, you're looking at 64oz, which is more than most people drink of even water in a day. You might as well be on an IV drip of caffeine and sucralose, which probably doesn't help your energy levels and feelings.)
Try cutting back to 1 mug a day and replacing the rest with a caffeine free, unsweetened herbal tea and/or water and see how you feel.
Haha, i had to LOL at your IV drip comment. Quite true, really
Perhaps after experimenting with all the coffees available to me i will give it a break and reduce my consumption a little. I appreciate the advice, Dragonwolf - certainly if i dont find a coffee that makes me feel like Dave Asprey says is possible, i will swap a good proportion of my coffees for herbal teas. I couldnt drink regular tea black (i dont think, bt then again i would never have thought id be slurping on black coffee either) so herbal teas do sound like a good option. Do you drink them? Are there any in particular that you recommend?
I'll continue to test the coffees 1st though. The variety available to me is finite so it will only take me a couple weeks to work through the majority of them.
I'm quite fond of Jasmine teas, particularly Jasmine Dragon Pearl. It's a bit pricey, though, because it's a light green tea (which does mean it's caffeinated, though it only contains about half the caffeine as the same amount of coffee, and if you get loose tea, the caffeine amount diminishes with subsequent steeps).
Teavana has a bunch of different herbal teas (they claim to have stores in England, though I have no idea where, but they should be able to ship to you).
Their Caramel Almond Amaretti tea is really good and is awesome with a little cream in it. As an added bonus, it's a reddish color, which looks really pretty. (They do seem to have artificial flavorings, which is annoying, but it may be a convenient place to try a few different kinds to get an idea of what you like and how the leaf smells translate to tea flavors if they're near you.)
A lot of online tea companies have sampler gift sets that give you a few servings of a variety of teas. It might be worth looking into, too, to find out what you like.0 -
My very first thought when I read your orginal post was the same as Dragonwolf. - That's a lot of caffeine! I would hedge my bets on the fact that your adrenals are just working super overtime and are not happy. You feel great for the first one cause the adrenals pump out the adrenaline but by the time you reach mug 3, 4, 5, there's nothing left in the adrenal gland bank. So you end up feeling worse than when you started. I don't think it has anything to do with mold. I think the bullet proof guy is a charlaton.
Second to the caffeine is the diuretic affect. If you tell me you are ALSO drinking at least 8 glasses of water with all that coffee.... I'll fall over! Are you drinking enough water?
Just wondering.
OH, and as a contribution to the survey,
I drink McDonalds coffee. Always Decaf. Buy the grinds at the grocery store and use a machine at home. I buy it because it's the only one I like in my price range. I like really strong, knock you over coffee. I drink it black though I prefer to drink it with cream. It's not as good black, but hey.
If the bitterness is a problem, add a bit of salt. I know, I know. Just trust me. Just a quick shake or two.
As I mentioned I I super strong, bold coffee. We have a local roaster/coffee house here called Bridgehead. They do the whole fairtrade organic thing so I can't really afford their coffee much but their dark roast will hold up a spoon, I tell you! One thing I learned recently is that often to get that well rounded, complex flavour you have to blend a few different beans types. Makes sense. I was talking with a coffee roaster guy and tasting his coffees and said they all seemed weak and flat, thin. That's when we realized what I like, the complexity of blends.
I used to thing blends were just left over cheapo stuff and maybe they are in some cases but apparently they're what I like.
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This is a great answer.Dragonwolf wrote: »This is a pretty good article on the matter -- http://authoritynutrition.com/the-mycotoxins-in-coffee-myth/
Basically, it says, that yes, coffee in general often tests positive when the beans are still green, but the act of roasting reduces the (already small) toxin amount by 65-90%. Additionally, we're exposed to various toxins by simply breathing that it's basically a drop in the bucket compared to other exposure methods (personally, I don't see that as "so it's okay," but rather that if you want to look to reduce toxins of any sort in your life, you're better off finding these avenues of larger exposure and doing what you can there).
Personally, I do think the quality of the coffee matters on a number of fronts and I definitely favor local/artisan roasters over the big brand names like Folger's, but that's more for quality of taste and whatnot than anything to do with toxins.
And, I worry that the "bullet proof" stuff is just a money making scheme.
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I use Folgers instant coffee hoping they processed out more toxins than they add. It is the starting point of my morning 800 calorie cup of coffee.0
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Wow. Coffee is far more complicated than I thought. I've NEVER had a starbucks. Not even been into one of their stores. I tried Costa coffee in England I thought it was dreadful.
I like plunger coffee with some double cream added. I usually buy ground arabica beans that are fair trade and drink 2-3 teacup sized coffee cups a day.
The husband drinks Moccona but I dislike instant coffee and will drink tea rather than instant coffee. 0 -
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Coffee and dark chocolate are my morning mistress
Talk of either being sullied or impure is not allowed!
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