Anyone know if LCHF can cause depression?

jumanajane
jumanajane Posts: 438 Member
edited November 2024 in Social Groups
Hi all, hope you are all doing well. I have now been keto for 3 1/2 months this time. Have been doing it on and off since 2003. For the last couple of weeks, maybe more, I have become increasingly niggled and snappy with almost depression like feelings. We were away on hols 2 weeks ago and I hadnt realised it but hubby said I was much happier and relaxed then than before (yes,lol, I know thats what hols are for but I wasnt aware of being any different!) In the 2 weeks since we came back I have been getting more irritable and snappy usually totally unjustified. I can only liken it to bad PMT! Ladies you will know the feeling, Men the effects!
Thing is I am not unhappy, have nothing to complain about apart from the usual life niggle(and not losing weight) so I feel like 2 people! My normal happy, optimistic self and then this unhappy. niggle, snappy *kitten*! Hubs and I had a chat yesterday and he's missing my optimism and fun!

Could it be the diet? Serotonin levels messed up although the protein should be enough trytophan to produce the serotonin? Could it be different supplements I have been taking recently??? Rhodiola...usually given for anxiety and depression, not cause it and Sytrinol....for intracellular cortisol in post-meno ladies??

Any views, advice, experience would be very welcome! Hubby and I would like the old me restored and I want shot of the grump I feel inside of me! Thanks.
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Replies

  • DittoDan
    DittoDan Posts: 1,850 Member
    Are you low carb or Keto? I heard that grains/gluten could be a cause. Lo carb can eat small amounts of grains, but Keto can't. Your diary is private.

    Dan the Man from Michigan
  • deksgrl
    deksgrl Posts: 7,237 Member
    Sounds like hormonal to me. What is your calorie level and workout routine? Could be excess cortisol maybe?
  • bluefish86
    bluefish86 Posts: 842 Member
    This recent unhappiness seems to coincide with the return from your holiday more than your adoption of a keto diet... are you sure there aren't any external reasons for your current mood?
  • jumanajane
    jumanajane Posts: 438 Member
    I try to stay under 18gm carb so keto and i have been for ages. Protein 88gm, fat 109. Cals 1300(just reduced from 1400 last week) Workout!!! Lolol. I walk if Im lucky. Sedentary. Rhodiola and sytrinol should be dealing with cortisol! Unless you count being stressed because Im snappy.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    Yeah, not really enough information, though generally speaking, a lot of low carb "induced" "depression" isn't depression, but withdrawal from the opiods found in various foods that are in the SAD, but dropped in low carb. That usually happens early on, though, and the body bounces back after a couple of weeks. Later symptoms are typically due to too little food and/or too much exercise, or hormonal shifts, all of which put extra stress on your body.

    Also, how do you feel, physically? Do you feel your heartbeat at all? Do you feel anxious?

    I'd drop the supplements, first (there doesn't appear to be much evidence regarding the efficacy of Rhodiola; and there's no evidence that blind cholesterol lowering, such as what Sytrinol appears to do, is beneficial to health), and make sure you're eating enough for your activity level. Either of the supplements may be causing your problems and I'm not convinced of the actual benefits of either, especially on this way of eating (which kind of changes the equation somewhat).
  • jumanajane
    jumanajane Posts: 438 Member
    My diary settings are on public....just checked and thats what it says! Good old MFP.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
    deksgrl wrote: »
    Sounds like hormonal to me. What is your calorie level and workout routine? Could be excess cortisol maybe?

    This is what I was thinking...
  • jumanajane
    jumanajane Posts: 438 Member
    I started the Rhodiola about 6 weeks ago to try and help the sleep issues...not sleeping and thas much better and the sytrinol wasnt for cholesterol but as it was suggested to be effective in dampening the switch on of cortisone in intracellular belly fat in an attempt to reduce the post menopausal belly! :)
    Too little food? Ohhh i hope so,lol. Too much exercise...not much chance of that. Hormonal shift? Dpeends which hormones we are talking about. No cyclical hormones since 2009.
  • jumanajane
    jumanajane Posts: 438 Member
    @blue fish, sorry I missed what you had written. No, it had started before the hol, thats why hubby said I was better when we were away....I hadnt realised it then. I have been keto for too long for it to be any of the lows you get when starting . I dont have any cravings. Im not missing anything. I love this woe. Thats why its puzzling me. I suspect it may be the supplements but by default they should have dealt with the cortisol.....the bely fat hasnt changed! :p
  • SlimBride2Be
    SlimBride2Be Posts: 315 Member
    I feel generally better mentally on low carb but fiancé says I am snappier than I was. I attribute that to the calorie deficit rather than the low carbs.
  • Fvaisey
    Fvaisey Posts: 5,506 Member
    I had read that keto lifts your mood. I personally believe that it's helped me. Because of personal things going on in my life I was in a significant downturn. Mood is such a subjective thing, and there are studies that show most antidepressants are no more effective than a placebo.

    However, after some years of feeling depressed I feel I'm on an upward trend even though the issues in my life continue unresolved.
  • mlinton_mesapark
    mlinton_mesapark Posts: 517 Member
    Sorry you're going through this, @jumanajane. If it's anything like PMS, I'm sure it's a miserable feeling.

    There's another thread in this forum about estrogen releasing from fat cells during lipolysis (fat burning). It really hit home with me, as I was newly VLC and had a period from hell, followed by crazy mood swings, teary moments (I'm not the sentimental type), and spotting between periods. You said you're post-menopausal, but I would imagine a sudden spike in estrogen could make you feel grumpy.

    You said the scale isn't moving. Have you been losing cm?

    Hope you feel better soon!
  • baconslave
    baconslave Posts: 7,034 Member
    deksgrl wrote: »
    Sounds like hormonal to me. What is your calorie level and workout routine? Could be excess cortisol maybe?

    This is what I was thinking...

    I agree. I found that ketosis IMPROVED my depression. It is gone. No more meds. Except for near TOM, it comes back a little and I get moody. But nothing like the "death to everyone" and the "I want to crawl in a whole and die" bullcrap I used to have.

    I did have an issue for a period of a month when I started taking an Adrenal Support supplement. Geez Louise. It was like a month-long bout of PMS. My poor husband! LOL! It had Rhodiola in it, among other things. Messed me up. Cycle came early that month. Skin broke out like a teenager. Bleh. Stopped taking it.

    Hormones are tricky, and for some people, easily unbalanced. 2 weeks off plan will put you having to readapt. And carb withdrawl makes some people depressed.

    Also, what do the keto calcs say your BMR is for your weight and height? I'm of the opinion you shouldn't eat below that. I tried that before. Made me cranky and depressed. I'd rather lose more slowly than grapple with that. So I ate more and didn't lose more slowly either.

    Whichever it is, I hope you are feeling your old self again soon. :heart:
  • jumanajane
    jumanajane Posts: 438 Member
    This is my dilemma! I am normally a happy person. No depression, very even tempered. I havent been off plan even on my weeks holiday, helps that hubs is also LCHF, so no change.
    I use http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/ and it says my BMR is 1556 cals. I have lost 9kg in all and a couple of inches here and there but it is slow. Each 100gm that stays off a triumph but I dont get too fed up as I know it is a long haul and slow due to my age. 58 3/4!

    I'm begining to think it may be the rhodiola. Interesting as its supposed to be an adaptogen and balance my cortisol!
  • KarenZen
    KarenZen Posts: 1,430 Member
    jumanajane, might be worth having a few sit downs with a therapist. If holidays were good but "real life" is making you snappy, you might have some underlying anxiety or resentments that you're not facing. As a woman who swallowed her negative emotions and feelings for 30 years and put on a happy face (and I would have sworn on a stack of bibles I WAS happy!), I can tell you that therapy helped me find a better balance and live a more authentic life.

    K.
  • jumanajane
    jumanajane Posts: 438 Member
    Lolol. Thanks for that and I hear you!! Happily I sorted all my demons out about 20 years ago and changed my life dramatically. No I have a pretty cushty life and lovely husband and don't have anything that needs sorting now but I wish you continued success in your new life too! All power to you for realising and taking steps! Not an easy thing!
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    Something you said stands out to me.
    That you have been on Keto for a long time.
    You have mentioned other changes that are more recent and coincide more with the cruddy mood. One or more of those changes would be suspect to me.
  • minties82
    minties82 Posts: 907 Member
    I feel like I have PMS every day. I attribute it to the lack of calories rather than low carb. Not eating much makes me so grumpy.
  • jumanajane
    jumanajane Posts: 438 Member
    @ sunnybunny.....i did? What were they that made you say that? I only lowered my cals by 100 as I hadnt redone my macros since i started. Too few cals do you think? I dont get grumpy or hangry from not eating....mostly because I dont get hungry very often. I eat a varied diet and am very happy with it.
    Poor @ minites....PMS feeling every day. Eat woman if thats the answer!
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    Try eating closer to your BMR for a month or so. You're pretty far under it right now...
    jumanajane wrote: »
    @ sunnybunny.....i did? What were they that made you say that? I only lowered my cals by 100 as I hadnt redone my macros since i started. Too few cals do you think?

    I'm not sunnybunny, but you did mention this:
    jumanajane wrote: »
    I started the Rhodiola about 6 weeks ago to try and help the sleep issues...not sleeping and thas much better and the sytrinol wasnt for cholesterol but as it was suggested to be effective in dampening the switch on of cortisone in intracellular belly fat in an attempt to reduce the post menopausal belly! :)

    Also, re: Sytrinol -- it seems its primary purpose is related to cholesterol. Even looking for cortisol (or cortisone, for that matter), you're hard-pressed to find stuff about its action on anything other than cholesterol. I'm inclined to think that this may be your culprit. Depression is also a sign of cholesterol that is too low (yes, there is such a thing).

    If you have issues with cortisol, then look into Phosphatidyl Serine. It's a supplement with the primary purpose of lowering cortisol levels. However, I'd still seriously consider whether you're actually having such issues before taking anything of the sort.

    Also, start a strength training program of some sort. Don't try to starve yourself down to your ideal weight, it doesn't work (and you seem rather close, according to your ticker). No, you're not too old (and if you somehow insist that you are, I will start posting people in their 80s and 90s who work out and put many 20-somethings to shame).
  • SkinnyKerinny
    SkinnyKerinny Posts: 147 Member
    I'm no expert but I definitely had the feelings of depression when I first started the LC diet last Thursday. When I increased the carbs (to around 40) I have felt a lot better.
  • deksgrl
    deksgrl Posts: 7,237 Member
    Dragonwolf wrote: »

    Also, start a strength training program of some sort. Don't try to starve yourself down to your ideal weight, it doesn't work (and you seem rather close, according to your ticker). No, you're not too old (and if you somehow insist that you are, I will start posting people in their 80s and 90s who work out and put many 20-somethings to shame).

    I'd like to see this anyway, because... inspiration!

  • wheatlessgirl66
    wheatlessgirl66 Posts: 598 Member
    edited June 2015
    deksgrl wrote: »
    Dragonwolf wrote: »

    Also, start a strength training program of some sort. Don't try to starve yourself down to your ideal weight, it doesn't work (and you seem rather close, according to your ticker). No, you're not too old (and if you somehow insist that you are, I will start posting people in their 80s and 90s who work out and put many 20-somethings to shame).

    I'd like to see this anyway, because... inspiration!

    Yep, I'd like to see that too! I'm 68 and having a heck of a time losing weight. Or inches. Nothin' since March! Not even on zero carb.

    Jane, maybe the supplements are getting you off kilter a bit. Maybe it's worth going without for a few days to see if you feel better. <3
  • jumanajane
    jumanajane Posts: 438 Member
    Thanks so much for all your help and suggestions. I dont actually have depression but am definitely not my usual sunny self and know something isnt right....I certainly dont feel unhappy and niggled inside usually!
    @Dragonwolf I got the Sytrinol info/suggestion from the cortisolconnection as a means to control HSD in post menopausal belly fat.
    Im dropping the rhodiola first to see if things change. If they do fine, if not then I'll drop the Sytrinol. Isolate which is the culprit. Its not major but having had severe depression in my 30's I am aware of shifts that may need addressing!

    I dont feel like Im starving myself at all! Believe me if I'm hungry I'll eat,lol. As to the strength training..lol..I know age is no barrier and can help..with me its opportunity! No time!

    Thanks again folks.

  • BikerGirlElaine
    BikerGirlElaine Posts: 1,631 Member
    Low carb can cause your serotonin levels to be too low. You said that you started the Rhodiola for sleep issues. Serotonin also plays a role in regulating sleep. It'll be interesting to see what happens when you take Rhodiola out.
  • xLoveLikeWinterx
    xLoveLikeWinterx Posts: 408 Member
    I feel generally better mentally on low carb but fiancé says I am snappier than I was. I attribute that to the calorie deficit rather than the low carbs.

    This. I haven't had a sugar crash (I'm hypoglycemic) in the 6.5 weeks I've been doing this, so I feel MUCH better. I could eat like this forever (and will). Eating fewer cals, though, makes me pretty snappy periodically. I've never had the "satiated, can't eat another bite" feeling on anything less than 1500 cals, and that's about my BMR. I'm always slightly hungry.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    LCHF has not been negative for me in any way yet. If I cut my calories in half to 1300 I might be really depressed. :)

    I have gone back to maintenance eating for up to 90 days if for some reason I did not feel well for a while especially after a fast drop in weight. I try to pick up my eating after about every 10 pounds of loss and let the body stabilize at that new weight. I have been in ketosis for 9 months now and am at about 200 pounds.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,600 Member
    Low carb can cause your serotonin levels to be too low. You said that you started the Rhodiola for sleep issues. Serotonin also plays a role in regulating sleep. It'll be interesting to see what happens when you take Rhodiola out.

    1. That idea is almost entirely speculation based on observational studies that show that serotonin levels are lower in people on low carb (but here's the catch -- it's not actually known what level is "too low," and serotonin levels are affected by a hundred other factors, too)
    2. It's not nearly as simple as serotonin levels -- http://www.atkins.com/how-it-works/atkins-blogs/colette-heimowitz/low-carb-diet-depression-not-so-fast
    3. Most of the body's serotonin is actually in the gut (fun fact of the day)
    I'm no expert but I definitely had the feelings of depression when I first started the LC diet last Thursday. When I increased the carbs (to around 40) I have felt a lot better.

    That's the opioid withdrawal I was referring to. In short, you're coming down from a mild high you've been on for 55 years. Part of the induction process is a period of lower energy and (depending on how you were eating before) withdrawal/detox not unlike what addicts of other substances deal with.

    Also, arguably, your protein is a little too high and fat a little too low, which may be throwing things off. It's worth trying a to balance them a little more.
  • DAM5412
    DAM5412 Posts: 660 Member
    jumanajane, I have been ruminating this exact issue. Started Keto last October, saw fantastic losses, but found I wasn't my usual, happy-go-lucky self, and being pre-meno, I found my preperiod mood to be downright dark and nasty. I have coasted in and out for the past few months and after a serious carby binge while on vacation myself (kudos for not doing the same during yours) I just restarted Keto (LCHF, no calorie restrictions) this week. I've dropped my salt/water weight gained while on vacation, but man am I witchy!! I recall when I started pulling back from my Keto WOE earlier this year, that my moodiness was one of the reasons.

    So, I am totally picking up what your putting down. I really enjoy Keto when I am able to stick with it long term, but I definitely have seen a change in my moods. Not quite depression, just a bit more snappy, less tolerant. Prior to this woe, I could have some dark days (always situational or around my TOM), but this is different. I am on no supplements, have not been Keto-consistent (certainly over the past few months) more then a few weeks at a time, and for the month of May, right up to this past Sunday, I was eating whatever I wanted. I look like crap from the weight gain and inflammation, and while very disappointed in my lack of self-discipline, my moods were fine.

    I personally am trying to add in a bit more exercise, walking 4-5 times a week and plan next week to add some strength sessions at least 2x a week. I love this WOE and how I physically feel, but I have wondered about the mental health for me. Sounds like from most respondents above, we are not part of the majority, but I will at the least validate for you that you are not alone in your feelings and ruminations on whether they are diet driven. I will send you a friend request and perhaps between the two of us we'll figure out how to align Keto for both physical and emotional health?
  • Fvaisey
    Fvaisey Posts: 5,506 Member
    As pure speculation, many of us turn to food for comfort and our typical comfort foods have been high carb "treats". Is it possible that not having those comfort foods to turn to, which possibly masked or suppressed those negative feelings, can cause a difference in how we react to minor irritations?
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