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Sun, Sunscreen and Cancer
GSD_Mama
Posts: 629 Member
found this article today.
http://theunboundedspirit.com/scientists-blow-the-lid-on-cancer-sunscreen-myth/
http://theunboundedspirit.com/scientists-blow-the-lid-on-cancer-sunscreen-myth/
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Recent blog post speculates that the sun-cancer connection is due to screwed-up circadian rhythms:
http://caloriesproper.com/sunlight-and-the-circadian-rhythms-in-your-skin/
SUNLIGHT entrains circadian rhythms. It gives us vitamin D and melanin; it can give us a sunburn, but some evidence suggests that it does NOT cause skin cancer.0 -
I personally don't use sunscreen and I am outside as often as possible. I am betting on an organic diet with fermented foods and some supplements to avoid any kind of cancer including skin cancer. The only thing that makes me a bit nervous is The China Study showing the correlation to cancer by eating animals. But my reasoning is that being so overweight is much more risky than eating meats and dairy. Hopefully I'm right! Maybe I'll be able to switch to a keto vegan diet. That could be the answer.0
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SkinnyKerinny wrote: »I personally don't use sunscreen and I am outside as often as possible. I am betting on an organic diet with fermented foods and some supplements to avoid any kind of cancer including skin cancer. The only thing that makes me a bit nervous is The China Study showing the correlation to cancer by eating animals. But my reasoning is that being so overweight is much more risky than eating meats and dairy. Hopefully I'm right! Maybe I'll be able to switch to a keto vegan diet. That could be the answer.
Look up Denise Minger's retort to The China Study. It might ease some of your misgivings.0 -
Hopefully I'm right! Maybe I'll be able to switch to a keto vegan diet. That could be the answer.
You won't find a lot of support for that in here. Talk to people like me who are successfully choosing a plant based protein diet, and eating fats, few carbs, and losing weight, without problems.
LCHF has come to mean stricter adherence to fatty meat consumption….I love my T-Bone steak!…but there are solid protein choices that allow a no meat diet to do well for those who need it for health and weight loss. Vegan-only can be nutritionally restrictive with NO dairy allowed, so cutting out so many foods may make it difficult to follow LC as a Vegan or strict vegetarian.
I promised myself that I'd be open to all ideas and discussions about nutrition, and while the Dr who wrote China Study is strongly plant based.. he ALSO looks at foods and nutrition as a GROUP.....so I like his logical thinking. But there seems to be a polarization inside the LC world..if someone chooses not to eat animals for ethical reasons, why not? they can easily be a LCHF follower. Diversity for all.
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Forgot…...Sunbathing, just 15-20 min day…before the noon-3 hottest rays helps those who live in fogged out and hazy areas, like the north coast where I live. My MD said we are ALWAYS too low in Vit D here.
I read books by a naturapath Andreas Moritz who was convinced back in the early 2000s that sunscreen chemical were more dangerous than actual sun which people are normally exposed to all their lives. the push by the SS lobby (even now EVERY newscaster repeating the PR of the sunscreen sellers at the end of the news to ' Cover Up folks, wear your sunscreen…." seelling their products for them! … lots of info online on low Vit. D.
We need SOME sunlight exposure to our eyes for health and brain this author said..and we get almost none, we're fully covered, to the car, into work, maybe some sun while pulling weeds in the yard on the weekend..but slathered in chemicals… I sunbath daily, nude, no creams, on both sides, usually at 11am -noon here...
and now, how much those chemicals are washed off into the water stream??!!…wow..another toxin added to our lives.0 -
SkinnyKerinny wrote: »I personally don't use sunscreen and I am outside as often as possible. I am betting on an organic diet with fermented foods and some supplements to avoid any kind of cancer including skin cancer. The only thing that makes me a bit nervous is The China Study showing the correlation to cancer by eating animals. But my reasoning is that being so overweight is much more risky than eating meats and dairy. Hopefully I'm right! Maybe I'll be able to switch to a keto vegan diet. That could be the answer.
Look up Denise Minger's retort to The China Study. It might ease some of your misgivings.
I can't second this comment hard enough. Take the time and read all the links on the following page.
http://rawfoodsos.com/the-china-study/
The #1 link is probably the one @Twibbly was referring to, but you should read through them all. The China study can be used to show very different results, if you wanted to. Campbell had an agenda that is screamingly obvious.
As for sunscreen, I have never worn it in my life. I never will. I've had only 2-3 very minor sunburns (one just last week... ironically) in my life. My wife thinks I am a bit crazy, but I refuse to wear it.0 -
When I got to the beach it have to be early morning, between 8 and 12 tops. I smother myself with coconut oil instead. It boggles my mind to see people coming in after 12 to burn to death all day. Eeeek!0
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Thanks so much for the info on the China Study. I see the logic in what she's saying and I'm blown away. Had no idea! This group rocks.0
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My Dr recommended sunlight exposure to my eyes to help with thyroid function & for Vit d levels.0
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I love the sun and take vitamin D3 all winter long. So come summer, I am out as much as I can. Now I work weekdays all day long, so my exposure is limited to after work and on weekends. But I firmly believe that the sunscreens we are expected to slather ourselves with to protect us can be harmful, so I use no sunscreen. Coconut oil has mild sunscreen properties and apparently works by ingesting it and by using it topically.
I feel energized by the sun, healthier and need the vitamin D, so will continue to "Bathe" in the sun every chance I get during our short Canadian prairie summer. I think it's something like 20 minutes daily in order to soak up enough vit D.
I have also noticed that when I raised my fat intake, my skin no longer seems to burn as easily. If I feel I have been out long enough in it, I move to the shade or cover up.0 -
@Kitnthecat I thought it was my imagination, but I don't seem to be burning as easily either. I only use ss on my face now ( in my makeup) & I'm out for long periods in my yard.0
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I started noticing it when I gave up grains and sugar and increased my fat intake when we went Primal, but this year going keto has seen me out all day long on weekends in the garden, and not getting burned at all. I'm glad because I don't want to put any chemicals on or in my body.0
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Soooo interesting. I don't wear sun screen either. I actually made sun block for my kids out of coconut oil, bee's wax, essential oils and zinc oxide. I hardly ever use it on them.0
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I think commercial sunscreen is toxic also so yet another reason to avoid it.0
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Erm, I just had a large basal cell carcinoma (the most common type of skin cancer) removed from my shoulder, and the wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal-cell_carcinoma) says that especially people with light skin; red or blonde hair; blue, green or gray eyes are susceptible to it, especially if they have ever had bad sunburns in their youth. I was an avid sun tanner in my youth (1970s) and so now have to be more careful. My older brother who spent years as a geologist looking for rocks in the bush, has had 3 removed over the years. So yes, I use sunscreen, but after reading that EWG report the other day (it is making the rounds of all my usual web stops...) I have ordered a zinc oxide type. The chemical sunscreens may be cancer-causing. Check your moles!0
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When I was in college I had a class in cosmetics (I was doing a fashion-arts program) and I remember my teacher told us that the chemicals in most sunscreens were toxic at best and were also linked to cancer. That's why you should never wear sunscreen or products that have spf at night.
I only wear it now if I'm in a situation where it can't be avoided (ie. direct sun - no shade or shelter). If I know I'm going to be out in the sun for any length of time, I'll try to cover up or use the mineral sunscreens which are safer.0 -
Erm, I just had a large basal cell carcinoma (the most common type of skin cancer) removed from my shoulder, and the wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal-cell_carcinoma) says that especially people with light skin; red or blonde hair; blue, green or gray eyes are susceptible to it, especially if they have ever had bad sunburns in their youth. I was an avid sun tanner in my youth (1970s) and so now have to be more careful. My older brother who spent years as a geologist looking for rocks in the bush, has had 3 removed over the years. So yes, I use sunscreen, but after reading that EWG report the other day (it is making the rounds of all my usual web stops...) I have ordered a zinc oxide type. The chemical sunscreens may be cancer-causing. Check your moles!
Yeah, the problem is that it's a bit of a Catch-22 -- Vitamin D deficiency increases your risk for all types of cancer (not to mention a host of other ailments and issues), sunscreen ingredients are linked to several types of skin cancer, but sun exposure also has some links to skin cancer.
I don't wear sunscreen, generally, in part because I'm Vitamin D deficient, and in part because my city rivals Seattle for number of cloudy days per year. So, I usually go without, unless it's a situation I know I'll likely burn (ie - if I'm around a lot of water). I don't burn easily as long as I've had some post-winter sun exposure, but if I am going to be where I am more likely to burn, I slather up in coconut oil, which has enough SPF to keep burns at bay. I do the same for my son, who's also Vitamin D deficient (he also gets a lot of conventional sun screen exposure via school/daycare). He loves his coconut sunscreen.
I've found that switching to a whole foods based diet and dropping the grains and sugars has had a huge impact on my ability to not burn, as well.
I tend to look to how we as a species (and as my ancestors) got to where we are today on matters like this. Our ancestors didn't have sunscreen like we have today, and spent a fair bit of time outside in various levels of exposure, though they probably ate numerous foods that provided protection from the inside, and may have done other things that gave them some extra protection from the sun (like seeking shade during peak hours or putting various oils on the skin). Mimic those behaviors, try to avoid burning (sunburns suck anyway), and eat a wholesome diet, and you'll likely be better off than most other people.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »I tend to look to how we as a species (and as my ancestors) got to where we are today on matters like this. Our ancestors didn't have sunscreen like we have today, and spent a fair bit of time outside in various levels of exposure, though they probably ate numerous foods that provided protection from the inside, and may have done other things that gave them some extra protection from the sun (like seeking shade during peak hours or putting various oils on the skin). Mimic those behaviors, try to avoid burning (sunburns suck anyway), and eat a wholesome diet, and you'll likely be better off than most other people.
Take a look at the caloriesproper link above if you get the chance. One difference between us and our ancestors is exposure to artificial light sources that disrupt our circadian rhythm.
So his theory is that even though sun causes DNA damage to skin cells, our skin cells "know" about daytime sun damage, so they upregulate DNA repair during the day and wait till nighttime to proliferate. Unfortunately, our biological sense of daytime and nighttime is all screwed up....0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »I tend to look to how we as a species (and as my ancestors) got to where we are today on matters like this. Our ancestors didn't have sunscreen like we have today, and spent a fair bit of time outside in various levels of exposure, though they probably ate numerous foods that provided protection from the inside, and may have done other things that gave them some extra protection from the sun (like seeking shade during peak hours or putting various oils on the skin). Mimic those behaviors, try to avoid burning (sunburns suck anyway), and eat a wholesome diet, and you'll likely be better off than most other people.
Take a look at the caloriesproper link above if you get the chance. One difference between us and our ancestors is exposure to artificial light sources that disrupt our circadian rhythm.
So his theory is that even though sun causes DNA damage to skin cells, our skin cells "know" about daytime sun damage, so they upregulate DNA repair during the day and wait till nighttime to proliferate. Unfortunately, our biological sense of daytime and nighttime is all screwed up....
I'm familiar with the disruption of our processes due to artificial light, but I'll definitely take a look at that link!
I agree, too. One of the recommendations of a lot of the "ancestral health" type of way of life frameworks (like Primal Blueprint) is reducing artificial light exposure and blue light exposure in the evenings. It's been fascinating to watch this kind of thing emerge, and does come back to the part of my comment you quoted -- what did our ancestors do? When it got dark, they sat around a fire (orange light) and/or slept (some may have hunted or traveled or whatever, but it was still by the dim light of the moon and stars or red/orange light of torches, not the bright lights of streetlights and office lights). It's not surprising to me that we're finding a link to a number of our modern ailments from circadian rhythm disruption. Hell, even just being able to drop the alarm clock from my wake-up routine has had huge benefit for me.0 -
On the other hand, our ancestors also didn't live that long, did they? And it's hard to know what the oldest ones died of. Maybe if they lived long enough, they'd get the kinds of mutations we have.
But that link is interesting.
I wear sunscreen on my face (because vain) only (because I'm low on Vit D), and switch between zinc and a higher SPF one that EWG doesn't hate as much as others.
Retinal entrainment is one thing, but also, people get cancer there too with too much direct light (as happened to a light-eyed prof I studied with, unfortunately
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Actually if our Paleolithic ancestors made it beyond childhood, they had a life expectancy greater than in any other period until the 1900s...0
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Funny you should bring this up. Just yesterday I looked up the effects of coconut oil causing sunburn, thinking back to the days when I tried baby oil. I use CO as a moisturizer. What I found were sites stating it was a natural sunblock. Of course those sites also had their own blends for sale at a price considerably more than I will pay in this lifetime. I have sunblock in my AM moisturizer but I never remember to put it anywhere else.
Here is my opinion on all of this science constantly coming out about this or that cancer or diabetes or whatever. (Disclaimer, my last decent science class was 9th grade so I could be way off base.). We only know a certain amount of facts about what our ancestors as a whole dealt with. I don't mean the cavemen either. My people have always been working class at best, seriously poor at worst. Going back only 3 generations, people didn't go to the doctor's unless they were truly sick beyond what mom could cure in the kitchen. That was if they could afford it and it's assuming the doctor they went to was knowledgable about things like cancer or diabetes and kept decent records. The data we have from my great-grandparent's time would have been from the higher middle classes and up, people who also had better nutrition and sanitation. I guess this is my long winded way of saying study and discussion are good (two of my favorite pastimes!) but at the end of the day you do the best you can and hope it all works out. As someone who spent a year and a half typing skin cancer reports, I'm not ready to completely demonize sunblock yet. When I remember to use it.
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Okay, I love you guys BUT, after just spending a lot of money to erase wrinkles and sun damage from my face I need to protect my investment. I was always a sun worshipper but as I approach 60 I'm realizing I would like to keep a healthy and youthful appearance. I found some wonderful new make-up, jane iredale. Went to see the company rep at a local salon last night. This will be good for my new face. She was shocked that I actually was able to by a Neutrogena product with a SPF 110. She was telling me all about European vs. American regulations regarding sunscreens. So interesting. Anyway, I wear sunscreen and a big hat when I go outdoors now. Also, I do take a vitamin D supplement everyday. I'm just putting in my 2 cents. And yes, I do miss lying in the sun all day and coming home with an awesome tan!!!! I will post new photos soon. Have a great day all!!0
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On the other hand, our ancestors also didn't live that long, did they? And it's hard to know what the oldest ones died of. Maybe if they lived long enough, they'd get the kinds of mutations we have.
But that link is interesting.
I wear sunscreen on my face (because vain) only (because I'm low on Vit D), and switch between zinc and a higher SPF one that EWG doesn't hate as much as others.
Retinal entrainment is one thing, but also, people get cancer there too with too much direct light (as happened to a light-eyed prof I studied with, unfortunately).
You don't even have to go as far as the Paleolithic era. Electricity and light bulbs are very, very recent inventions. If a town had lanterns, they were still oil lamps or candles -- fire, orange light. It's not until the advent of electricity that we became inundated with blue light at unnatural hours.
As for the life expectancy canard, our life expectancy has increased in recent times because of sanitation and antibiotics, not anything diet related, and even then, you're talking about 5 or 10 years after you actually account for infant mortality (which is what drives life expectancy figures down).
Even if you wanted to claim that the older members might have died of cancer or whatever (which isn't really supported by evidence of either what we have of ancient humans or modern primitive groups that haven't been westernized; in fact, their health rapidly declines when westernized, and improves when returning to their traditional ways), that still doesn't explain the marked discrepancy in rates among younger parts of the populations. Dr. Price found almost no dental problems among the primitive groups he studied, for example. A marked difference from his practice in Ohio, where 99% of people had dental caries and jaws too small to hold all of their teeth. Diabetes, particularly Type 2, is non-existent in these populations until they start westernizing, let alone occurring at the ages we see it happening. Hell, that didn't even happen in our populations until the past couple of decades, in tandem with the further reduction in fats, increased prevalence of soy and sugar in all food, increased emphasis on grains, starches, and carbohydrates in general, etc. Until the past decade or so, only older adults came down with Type 2 diabetes. If a child has Diabetes, it was pretty much guaranteed to be Type 1. Hence the terms "adult onset" and "juvenile diabetes" for type 2 and 1, respectively. No, accidents, exposure, and communicable disease were the most likely causes of death until very recently. Life as a hunter or farmer comes with a fair amount of risk.0 -
I've been deficient in Vitamin D in the past and have had two squamous cell skin cancers removed in the last two years (one from upper chest and other was left upper arm) and feel I have another showing itself now. Time for a dermatology visit. This article brought it home for me! Will be stopping the sunscreen and will use coconut oil for prolonged exposure. Thanks op for the post!0
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Good luck Karlottap.0
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Dragonwolf wrote: »On the other hand, our ancestors also didn't live that long, did they? And it's hard to know what the oldest ones died of. Maybe if they lived long enough, they'd get the kinds of mutations we have.
But that link is interesting.
I wear sunscreen on my face (because vain) only (because I'm low on Vit D), and switch between zinc and a higher SPF one that EWG doesn't hate as much as others.
Retinal entrainment is one thing, but also, people get cancer there too with too much direct light (as happened to a light-eyed prof I studied with, unfortunately).
You don't even have to go as far as the Paleolithic era. Electricity and light bulbs are very, very recent inventions. If a town had lanterns, they were still oil lamps or candles -- fire, orange light. It's not until the advent of electricity that we became inundated with blue light at unnatural hours.
As for the life expectancy canard, our life expectancy has increased in recent times because of sanitation and antibiotics, not anything diet related, and even then, you're talking about 5 or 10 years after you actually account for infant mortality (which is what drives life expectancy figures down).
Even if you wanted to claim that the older members might have died of cancer or whatever (which isn't really supported by evidence of either what we have of ancient humans or modern primitive groups that haven't been westernized; in fact, their health rapidly declines when westernized, and improves when returning to their traditional ways), that still doesn't explain the marked discrepancy in rates among younger parts of the populations. Dr. Price found almost no dental problems among the primitive groups he studied, for example. A marked difference from his practice in Ohio, where 99% of people had dental caries and jaws too small to hold all of their teeth. Diabetes, particularly Type 2, is non-existent in these populations until they start westernizing, let alone occurring at the ages we see it happening. Hell, that didn't even happen in our populations until the past couple of decades, in tandem with the further reduction in fats, increased prevalence of soy and sugar in all food, increased emphasis on grains, starches, and carbohydrates in general, etc. Until the past decade or so, only older adults came down with Type 2 diabetes. If a child has Diabetes, it was pretty much guaranteed to be Type 1. Hence the terms "adult onset" and "juvenile diabetes" for type 2 and 1, respectively. No, accidents, exposure, and communicable disease were the most likely causes of death until very recently. Life as a hunter or farmer comes with a fair amount of risk.
You'll get no argument from me on the noxious effects of industrialization. I'm just saying cancer's not new, and no one can say whether our ancestors would have seen its effects or not, regardless of how they actually died.0 -
Guys, help! You put this information out there....
I'm heading to Sicily next week (I believe I may have mentioned this before...) what do I do?
Coming from rainy Northern Ireland I will burn at 30+ degrees C and so will my freckly sort-of-red-haired daughter? What can I put on them sunscreen wise that's safe? Will of course use a hat and yes we will retire indoors as much as possible between 11-2 or 3 (siesta!). I was looking at coconut oil today for sunscreen but am thinking it will be very messy at that temperature and will slide off us.
Completely agree re circadian rhythms etc and, boy, do we need a bit of vitamin D, but I don't want my kids having sun blisters and screaming in pain.
Grateful for your advice as ever!0 -
totaloblivia wrote: »Coming from rainy Northern Ireland I will burn at 30+ degrees C and so will my freckly sort-of-red-haired daughter? What can I put on them sunscreen wise that's safe? Will of course use a hat and yes we will retire indoors as much as possible between 11-2 or 3 (siesta!). I was looking at coconut oil today for sunscreen but am thinking it will be very messy at that temperature and will slide off us.
Mineral based sunscreens that contain zinc or titanium oxide are generally regarded as safer options.0 -
bluefish86 wrote: »totaloblivia wrote: »Coming from rainy Northern Ireland I will burn at 30+ degrees C and so will my freckly sort-of-red-haired daughter? What can I put on them sunscreen wise that's safe? Will of course use a hat and yes we will retire indoors as much as possible between 11-2 or 3 (siesta!). I was looking at coconut oil today for sunscreen but am thinking it will be very messy at that temperature and will slide off us.
Mineral based sunscreens that contain zinc or titanium oxide are generally regarded as safer options.
Agree - although I've heard that they tend to have a lower PPD, so it's a good idea to use a wide-brimmed hat as backup.0
This discussion has been closed.