A stupid Q: If Fat Adapted and have weight to lose, why hungry ?
Foamroller
Posts: 1,041 Member
Many people in FA report anecdotes about "losing feeling of hunger" when in ketosis over a longer period of time. Just curious, but if someone still has adipose tissue to lose, why are they "feeling hungry" ? Is this a physiological hunger or emotional hunger ?
Wouldn't the surplus fat be enough food for the body at least energy wise ? Provided I give the body the protein it needs, I shouldn't need to eat.
Could it be that when I "feel hungry" it is mostly in my mind due to habit, mental justifications (exercise I'm looking at ya!)
Since I do IF, I can surpress the hunger feeling all day. But once I start eating, it's hard to stop.
Experiences, thoughts ?
Wouldn't the surplus fat be enough food for the body at least energy wise ? Provided I give the body the protein it needs, I shouldn't need to eat.
Could it be that when I "feel hungry" it is mostly in my mind due to habit, mental justifications (exercise I'm looking at ya!)
Since I do IF, I can surpress the hunger feeling all day. But once I start eating, it's hard to stop.
Experiences, thoughts ?
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Hmm. I imagine that it's because the body 'knows' it's starting to survive off stored fat and wants to remind you that that process can't go on indefinitely. It wants you to top up for quickly available energy! But because you are fat adapted you are able to ignore it for longer.0
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I experience normal hunger as before. I am positive I am more adapted to burn fat as fuel since I can do a couple hours of pretty intense cardio.
All that happens is you don't have the proverbial "bonk" from running low on carbs. I probably finish the last hour of cardio, for me a long hot bike ride, at 90% of mixed fat and carb fuel as on fat only.
No magical lack of hunger. Just a chemical and physical change. My mitochondria has grown and the switch to access fat As fuel switches on earlier.
In fairness to starting the process, it has taken 2 months to really able to exercise fasted and barely add sports drink carbs and perform normally.
It is worth it though
I have never be able to lean out my torso. It is kind of new and cool to be able to hold my hips and turn and feel the muscles move
It used to be hidden by fat.
Body recomp is kind of fun. Hard work, but fun.0 -
Hunger is complicated. A lot is psychological/emotional/environmental, but at the physiological level, there are a bunch of hormones involved.
Ghrelin seems to be the one that may signal that ketones are available, so it drops to suppress hunger.
Leptin signals "I'm too fat, stop eating!" and that drops as fat gets depleted. People who've lost a lot of weight seem to have a problem with low leptin levels. Hunger drives them to regain lost fat.
Adiponectin may do something similar -- levels go up as adipose gets depleted = "feed me! fill up your poor depleted fat cells!"
There are others, too, like the ones that simply tell you that your stomach is full.0 -
I experienced the "not hungry" for a couple blissful months. Then summer came last year, and I cranked up the exercise. I get hunger now. It is suppressible for the most part (except for stressful times and I struggle more just before and during TOM.) I boosted the fat up, but it didn't help. All I can figure is that my body is designed to keep the status quo. I'm aggressively trying to change it, so my body is aggressively fighting me in defense.
There is still some bored/stressed/emotional-eating path there as well, it wakes sometimes and encourages me to go down that overgrown path. Even after a year it still whispers to me sometimes.
I'm also pretty certain that AS causes me some phantom hunger. I haven't tested since I'm not willing to give them up. None of the diet sodas I like have natural sweeteners. DH bought a bunch on sale. So perhaps I'll get him to let them run out and I'll try to find an alternative. I'm pretty sure it's the ace K and aspartame. I don't have much of an issue with sucralose that I can tell.
When calories are restricted, I'm going to experience some hunger. It's the nature of the beast. But it isn't the "murder for a meal" kind that I had on the SAD. It's uncomfortable, but necessary.
I allow myself more leeway on the weekends which makes things go more slowly, but my willpower would be worn out to the point of an apocalyptic carb-binge without it, so I wait patiently.
My anecdotes are all I have to add. Sorry.0 -
I too experience hunger but it is just hunger. When I had more carbs in my diet it was some sort of physical craving - way more intense than hunger. When I eat eat my carbs earlier in the day I seem to have more issue with hunger; it's not really to the point of cravings but it is much more intense than if I had just had bacon for breakfast.
I did read an article recently about how people who have lost weight will usually need to eat at what would be a slight deficit, for most people, in order to maintain their weight. A deficit will cause some hunger I'm guessing.
I know if I eat less I will eventually eat more again. I seem to swing 300 calories above and below my caloric goals on most days because of variable hunger. Some days it is hard to stop eating. I think it would all average out to where I should be in the end. I hope. LOL0 -
What do people mean when they say they have hunger? Is it that stomach growling / tightness in your stomach? I sometimes get that, but ignoring it is like a game to me.
To me, real hunger shows up once I put food in my mouth. It's the signal that tells me I'm done. If I'm really hungry, not only does it take a lot of food to get the "full" signal, but I'll eat foods I normally don't even like.0 -
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i use a trick from the zero carb community-if meat sounds good, i am likely "for realz" hungry. If a cupcake sounds good but meat sounds "meh" then i am just looking for a party in my mouth as Dr Phil used to say LOL.0
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This weekend I experience my first real "not hungry". Saturday I had very little for breakfast, then had a good late lunch. Then didn't eat again until Sunday lunch, like 22 hours later. Then at bedtime I ate a couple of deviled eggs, not because my stomach required it, just because I wanted to taste them.0
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There are a lot of good info posted here. This subject is very subjective.
I do get hungry but it not like I have to kill you and take your food cravings like when living on Carbs.
Physically working hard will cause 'real' hunger. When living on sugar I had to get more sugar fast for my body/brain to function. Now I can get hungry but get really busy and go another 6 hours functioning well the whole time.
The body starts to do some weird stuff no food is eaten. I eat 2500 to 3000 calories daily still but they are mainly from Fats, medium protein and <50 grams of carbs daily. That means I do NOT go hungry so my body/brain does not have to go into panic mode.
I really think for the first 6 months of being in ketosis full time was needed to grasp how Low Carb High Fat works in MY body. It seems we are all special snow flakes and need only to compare our experiences with our past experiences and not those of others posted on the internet.
My weight continues to drift down very slowly while my physical and mental health drifts up and up month after month. When one is 64 he is surrounded by family and friends going in the opposite direction in all of the same ways. I have made more funeral home visits in the last 12 months than in the last 60 months with many of them being younger than me.
I like my current health trend line compared what most of my friends are experiencing. One day I am going to die but want to be walking and talking until I die and then not require a 3X coffin.
Getting my health trend line trending up is my overall objective. I was at such a low point health wise my trending up was not easy for many to see for a long time. Today I know my body is starting to heal with my current eating lifestyle but after 40 years of carb abuse I still have a lot of recovering to do.
Like the dirty engines in used 2007 and 2002 Dodge trucks we purchased this year for the twins to drive to college next year the motor oil in each engine is staying cleaner longer after each oil change. For the first two changes they only had 1000 to 1250 miles after the prior oil change just because I was running 'detox' cleaners and the oil going black fast.
My weight loss did not start for two months after I got into ketosis full time. I expect it was due to my low level of health of my organs. Drinking a gallon of water a day seems to enable my body to 'detox' on its own. Toxins have to have a way of leaving the body. It is not like you can just drain out the dirty 'motor oil' and replace with new more often like you can a car engine to help recover from poor past automotive maintenance.
A upward trend line over time will give us better and better health.0 -
Something else I'm currently experimenting with, in my lovely insulin resistant adventure, is to have my bit of sweet that I always seem to crave (craving something sweet to feel like you've truly ended a meal is a HUGE indicator of insulin resistance) either at the beginning or mid-meal, and just a couple bites. Typically, I would have made a few ounces of my homemade chocolate mousse (heavy cream, dark cocoa powder, and a tiny bit of sweetener), but I had maybe 4 TBSP leftover from yesterday, and while my taco salad was heating up at lunch, I took four tiny "dab" bites of it, and felt utterly satisfied and satiated by my taco salad, whereas, if I had saved the sweet until the end, I would have wanted GOBS AND GOBS of it. I don't know if this will work going forward, but I'm definitely going to try it, if I choose to have the sweets - don't eat it last - and have only enough to kill the craving/satisfy the urge.... I'm quite happy with this progress (no after meal slumps today, either!).0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Something else I'm currently experimenting with, in my lovely insulin resistant adventure, is to ve my bit of sweet that I always seem to crave (craving something sweet to feel like you've truly ended a meal is a HUGE indicator of insulin resistance) either at the beginning or mid-meal, and just a couple bites. Typically, I would have made a few ounces of my homemade chocolate mousse (heavy cream, dark cocoa powder, and a tiny bit of sweetener), but I had maybe 4 TBSP leftover from yesterday, and while my taco salad was heating up at lunch, I took four tiny "dab" bites of it, and felt utterly satisfied and satiated by my taco salad, whereas, if I had saved the sweet until the end, I would have wanted GOBS AND GOBS of it. I don't know if this will work going forward, but I'm definitely going to try it, if I choose to have the sweets - don't eat it last - and have only enough to kill the craving/satisfy the urge.... I'm quite happy with this progress (no after meal slumps today, either!).
Interesting knit. I often feel this way, and so does my dad (super carb eater). I think we'll be trying the dab of something before we have our meal!0 -
i use a trick from the zero carb community-if meat sounds good, i am likely "for realz" hungry. If a cupcake sounds good but meat sounds "meh" then i am just looking for a party in my mouth as Dr Phil used to say LOL.
I like looking at it that way.
I've been at this for a little over a month and the ketostix say I'm in ketosis. Before, I didn't really get hungry, but just ate - because it was time to eat, because I was bored, because I was sad, to celebrate, because it was right beside me in the checkout line, etc. - now I eat because my body says I should. While I sometimes do get hungry, what I don't have is cravings like before. I'm now able to pass up bread served at restaurants, and yesterday passed on chocolate birthday cake. What I'm working on is portion control. I have a history of eating until way past full, so I work hard not to over eat.
@baconslave - I hear you on the diet soda. I'm not quite willing to give them up as well. I've tried some of the flavored carbonated waters, but it's just not the same. I'm hoping as I add more water in, I'll be able to cut back and eventually eliminate them.0 -
sweetteadrinker2 wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Something else I'm currently experimenting with, in my lovely insulin resistant adventure, is to ve my bit of sweet that I always seem to crave (craving something sweet to feel like you've truly ended a meal is a HUGE indicator of insulin resistance) either at the beginning or mid-meal, and just a couple bites. Typically, I would have made a few ounces of my homemade chocolate mousse (heavy cream, dark cocoa powder, and a tiny bit of sweetener), but I had maybe 4 TBSP leftover from yesterday, and while my taco salad was heating up at lunch, I took four tiny "dab" bites of it, and felt utterly satisfied and satiated by my taco salad, whereas, if I had saved the sweet until the end, I would have wanted GOBS AND GOBS of it. I don't know if this will work going forward, but I'm definitely going to try it, if I choose to have the sweets - don't eat it last - and have only enough to kill the craving/satisfy the urge.... I'm quite happy with this progress (no after meal slumps today, either!).
Interesting knit. I often feel this way, and so does my dad (super carb eater). I think we'll be trying the dab of something before we have our meal!
My suggestion is only to make sure it isn't something too sweet, as that sweet flavor will trigger a massive insulin response. Optimum for me, in my understanding of insulin, would be to put the sweet mid-meal.0 -
As a side note, I have mixed up hunger with needing more water. When I think I'm hungry, I drink 20 fl oz, of carbonated water, or I will have a large plain peppermint tea, then wait 30 minutes. If I still feel hungry, then I wait until the next meal where I will add in more fat, coconut oil, a tablespoon of MCT oil.0
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slimzandra wrote: »As a side note, I have mixed up hunger with needing more water. When I think I'm hungry, I drink 20 fl oz, of carbonated water, or I will have a large plain peppermint tea, then wait 30 minutes. If I still feel hungry, then I wait until the next meal where I will add in more fat, coconut oil, a tablespoon of MCT oil.
I drink a 16.9 ounce bottle of water when I think I'm hungry in the late afternoons. It often does it
The coconut oil in my coffee makes it seem filling
Have not tried MCT oil but it is on the list
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I know that I still have hungrier days, but the hungry isn't the same. I'm sure mine is related to hormone fluctuations since I spend the majority of the month not hungry. I recognize them and try to just drink lots of extra water on those days. I've been successful with avoiding any bad choices for the first time, ever, for me!0
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I have had a few rare hungry days even though I've experienced hunger control from early on. I tend to first consider my macros for that day and make sure I've got a decent amount of protein and fat so far in that day. If it looks good, I think about hydration and overall nutrients in what I've chosen to eat that day or the day before if it starts out first thing. I have been able to explain most of my hungrier days in these ways and get back on track. But there have been a couple times that I had to look further and consider my calorie total over the previous several days or if I had used more energy than normal. I have, on occasion had such low calorie days a few times in a week that I feel it may have prompted a hungrier day later on. And I definitely noticed a hunger surge after some major exercise or some hard physical work that left my body sore. I also aim for a 25% calorie deficit as my goal, so if I go over by 100-200, I don't sweat it, it's just a lower deficit day.
I went cold turkey to max 20g when I got started and I have days up to 30g sometimes too. I definitely think this is the main explanation for the mental hunger control aspect for me due to the fact that I felt literally addicted to sugar most of my adult life.0 -
slimzandra wrote: »As a side note, I have mixed up hunger with needing more water. When I think I'm hungry, I drink 20 fl oz, of carbonated water, or I will have a large plain peppermint tea, then wait 30 minutes. If I still feel hungry, then I wait until the next meal where I will add in more fat, coconut oil, a tablespoon of MCT oil.
That's very true for me too. So true. 1
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