Mindfulness Experiment
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glossbones wrote: »slimzandra wrote: »Another comment is that they don't recommend IF for weight management.
They just say "Fasting" in the text you pasted. Possibly they're using that term in terms of "denying yourself food" rather than in a way that specifically dictates when to eat and when to fast.
The other possibility is that it's a way to approach people who are becoming anorexic but who do not yet see themselves as having a problem. Fasting is so popular right now that it has occurred to me it could become an easy explanation for seriously unhealthy behavior.
Also, maybe for some whose bodies are already under a lot of physical stressors, even a little added cortisol is too much? I know that for me, I cannot force IF. Either it comes naturally in any given day, or it doesn't. Forcing it ends up with my binge eating or eating crap I don't need just to keep myself from whatever. So if it happens naturally, I roll with it and love it! If it doesn't, I pass on it for that day...0 -
LindaSmith108 wrote: »My experience with mindfulness and associated meditative techniques is that they're really good for relieving immediate mental stressors, like free floating anxiety. They aid in strengthening the ability to concentrate and think in a more organized fashion. Emotions are more easily reined in with a regular practice, so the character is strengthened in that way.
But I was often lulled into the false belief that mindfulness and it's associated practices would assist in regulating my disordered eating (addictive, compulsive). It didn't. It didn't make me not want to eat the foods low carbers avoid and it didn't help me control the intake of those foods once they crossed my lips.
I've been tripped up into thinking yoga, meditation and other mystical techniques would cure me of compulsive gluttony. So many times.
I now use a complete abstinence approach to the eating of sweet and starchy carbs and also exclude all grains.
I just mention this to caution anyone who struggles with food the way I do. Mindfulness is wonderful for lots of things but it doesn't automatically regulate compulsive overeating disorders or quell cravings for sweet/starchy foods. So if you're doing well abstaining, I would strongly advise: Don't alter your path.
The women who write these mindfulness books and author mindfulness websites and webinars usually don't come from a history of significant obesity nor, in my opinion, are they geared for people who have a disordered relationship with food and eating.
I know not everyone here has an obesity history or a disordered relationship with food and eating though, so maybe a book or a website like this could be helpful for them.
I have a lengthy history of disordered eating (compulsive eating, binge eating and also restriction) and I have found meditation, yoga and other mindfulness strategies to be an integral part of my healing process. I cannot say I never overeat or eat compulsively, because I still do sometimes- but my binges are far more infrequent now and I am better able to control myself when I really think about how food tastes, or how I feel after I eat it, or whether or not what I am wanting has anything to do with food at all. I am sorry you have not found mindfulness helpful in addressing your ED, but so happy for you that you have found something that works (abstinence). Just more proof that we are each on our own journey and what works for one may not work for another.My experience with mindfulness and associated meditative techniques is that they're really good for relieving immediate mental stressors, like free floating anxiety. They aid in strengthening the ability to concentrate and think in a more organized fashion. Emotions are more easily reined in with a regular practice, so the character is strengthened in that way.
But I was often lulled into the false belief that mindfulness and it's associated practices would assist in regulating my disordered eating (addictive, compulsive). It didn't. It didn't make me not want to eat the foods low carbers avoid and it didn't help me control the intake of those foods once they crossed my lips.
I've been tripped up into thinking yoga, meditation and other mystical techniques would cure me of compulsive gluttony. So many times.
I now use a complete abstinence approach to the eating of sweet and starchy carbs and also exclude all grains.
I just mention this to caution anyone who struggles with food the way I do. Mindfulness is wonderful for lots of things but it doesn't automatically regulate compulsive overeating disorders or quell cravings for sweet/starchy foods. So if you're doing well abstaining, I would strongly advise: Don't alter your path.
The women who write these mindfulness books and author mindfulness websites and webinars usually don't come from a history of significant obesity nor, in my opinion, are they geared for people who have a disordered relationship with food and eating.
I know not everyone here has an obesity history or a disordered relationship with food and eating though, so maybe a book or a website like this could be helpful for them.
I have a lengthy history of disordered eating (compulsive eating, binge eating and also restriction) and I have found meditation, yoga and other mindfulness strategies to be an integral part of my healing process. I cannot say I never overeat or eat compulsively, because I still do sometimes- but my binges are far more infrequent now and I am better able to control myself when I really think about how food tastes, or how I feel after I eat it, or whether or not what I am wanting has anything to do with food at all. I am sorry you have not found mindfulness helpful in addressing your ED, but so happy for you that you have found something that works (abstinence). Just more proof that we are each on our own journey and what works for one may not work for another.Thanks. Funny because I signed up more than once, as both personal and professional, and got nada.
I did too, I still haven't gotten anything. Can I still join? It sounded like something I really need.
I would try to sign up, Linda, but I'm not sure. If anyone wants me to forward the emails (one a week), so 2 so far, shoot me a PM with your email address, and I'll forward it to you from mine!0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »By successful, I mean stay awake or be able to focus. Usually, I fall asleep. Like a minute in and I'm snoring.
Hah, I wish I had this problem sometimes, I don't fall asleep easy even when I want to. Were you laying down for this? We did some stuff to learn how to find a position you can sit in to "maintain as good a posture as you're able to comfortably" for however long you plan on meditating for. I know some people have back issues that prevent this so they do it lying down. Well, that's for what I know of as basic mindfulness meditation, which is simply a focus on your breath. There are other things, like a body scan, which I always learned to do laying down to work on body awareness. And yeah, lots of people would fall asleep during that.Or my mind is so cluttered, it feels like I'm arm-wrestling in another thought in and I just end up getting so frustrated I quit doing it. Usually I can't go ten seconds without being mentally bombarded with 50 other thoughts dying for attention.
Yeah, this is more what I was referring to. Its going to happen, and its ok. As you meditate more frequently for longer times you may find that your mind "calms down" a litlte more, or, you'll find that its easier to not latch on to your thoughts. But it never stops completely, and there are "good days" and "bad days" even after decades of this according to my instructor.
The analogy that helped me the most personally: During meditation, imagine your thoughts as clouds. You don't have any control over clouds, how many are in the sky, you can't interact with them, they're just going to pass by in their own time. So when you have some kind of thought during meditation - and you will, LOTS - acknowledge the thought, but try not to "engage" with it, just acknowledge its something that came up, and let it pass by. If you do end up getting distracted and engaging with your thoughts, once you do realize it, that's NOT a failure, that's just another thing that happens. And once you recognize what's happened, you let go of that, and go back to focusing on your breath (or on whatever your focus is intended to be).
Its not easy, despite sounding simple. There are other layers to this too. If you get frustrated, acknowledge that. That's part of the process. "Ok, I had this thought, I couldn't just let it go. And then I got frustrated at myself for not being able to let it go. Ok, right now, in this moment, that's all ok. That happened, but now I'm going to just let that pass and go back to my breathing" Even that is a SUCCESS (even though it doesn't feel great, I know). It begins to break your natural/usual pattern of dealing with your internal monologue and gets easier with time.
Even after doing this daily for a few months, there are still times where I spend half my meditation time just planning out my day, or going through a checklist of stuff to do tomorrow, because that kind of thought popped into my head and I ran with it. If I'm having an especially "bad" day, I go back to that analogy I mentioned and actually visualize my thoughts as little clouds like they were word bubbles in a comic strip, and I move my eyes from right to left and pretend like I'm watching them pass by. It gives me something to do to *really* focus on the concept of just observing my thoughts and not interacting heavily with them, and it helps. Different people figure out different things to do, though. Other people in our class didn't really find that cloud anaolgy helpful but would describe other ways they view things to help them out.
Anyway, hang in there, and stick with it
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I have one piece of "meditation music" I only use for going to bed (like a grown up type of lullaby). For whatever reason, it helps clear my mind and put me to sleep. I never use it for other meditation and only for sleep. And I don't think it's ever taken more than 15-20 minutes for it to help me close down my mind and sleep. It isn't a specific meditation. I just do it every night. My sleep quality has improved loads. It also helps me go right back to sleep if I wake up to pee or anything in the middle of the night. Even when I'm angry and stressed and frustrated, I listen to the music and just at first sometimes, consciously, then not other times....let it all go for tomorrow.
Like I said, my "manic meditations" were all pre-keto. I still get stubborn thoughts and stuff, but I love your wording and imagery above. I'm so stealing it for later!0 -
http://themindfulnesssummit.com/
Free resources daily for the month of October with a lot of big name speakers in the Mindfulness world. It looks like there are a decent mix of topics just looking through the speaker list between theory talk or science talk and specific talk about practices/guided meditations etc.0 -
Wow, that looks great @radiii. Thanks for posting this link. I will likely register for this, as a way to renew my vows with myself. ( I have let my practice slip.)0
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i sometimes have issues with "mindfulness" when it is used as a mental "anti-stress pill". Mindful means being mindful to suffering as the general human condition. This means a clear view of your position, not a means to lull you to sleep because of "deep relaxation". And when there's a clear view of suffering, to end it by stopping to grasp at the differences between this and that. These are no other than the four noble truths of the Buddha, but exactly those don't seem to figure highly on the mindfulness agenda.0
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I've been meditating regularly for over 25 years.
I'm very mindful about my self talk, my thoughts, how I perceive what is happening around me and choosing my response. I've also focused on my body and my weight and still reached 155 kgs. When a food physically interacts with your body no amount of meditation will correct or reverse it. If it did, I would be effortlessly slim. There are rules of physics, chemistry and the like that exist and cannot be counteracted by meditation e.g. gravity, chemical interactions. Our world wouldn't exist without predictable scientific rules and interactions.
Discovering that carbs and sugar are what were really making my body hold fat was just as enlightening as 25 years of meditating. The detrimental affects of carbs and sugar on my body is a fact. If I could change that through meditation and mindfulness it would have happened. Meditation and mindfulness are not miracle cures, they are tools to assist you.
I love meditation and mindfulness. They make me calm and less stressful. I can be responsive rather than reactive. Life is a series of events and there are still times when I find it difficult to settle. The important thing to remember is not to judge yourself for not being perfect. Just notice what is happening, accept that and know that next time it will be different. What I find personally helpful is to write down what is going around my head. Not just type it out, physically write it on paper. It helps me get some perspective on the events and calm the thoughts in my head.
I meditate in different situation in different positions for varying lengths of time. Do what works for you. There is nothing wrong with meditating to fall asleep. I do it all the time. If you feel you would like to be more mindfully present for your meditation sit somewhere comfortable. The couch or a lounge chair work beautifully for me. You don't have to sit in lotus position.
If it works for you, it's fine. Focus on making meditation enjoyable.
Have a great day.0 -
i sometimes have issues with "mindfulness" when it is used as a mental "anti-stress pill". Mindful means being mindful to suffering as the general human condition. This means a clear view of your position, not a means to lull you to sleep because of "deep relaxation". And when there's a clear view of suffering, to end it by stopping to grasp at the differences between this and that. These are no other than the four noble truths of the Buddha, but exactly those don't seem to figure highly on the mindfulness agenda.
Mindfulness does seem like its become a buzzword, especially in the business world, but it seems like there is a pretty huge gap between something with an agenda or something pitched as a quick fix "anti-stress pill" and going all in on spirituality and Buddhism. I fall somewhere in that gap. I don't see any quick fixes here. I see a lifetime of committment to a practice having all kinds of benefits. I do get the sense that some people that start learning about mindfulness in an honest (non-buzzwordy) will see that naturally lead into a study of philosphy and may end up in a place you're talking about.
For me, my interest lies in the fact that there are a quickly growing number of studies showing real benefits to the practices that, to me, started with a curiosity about mindfulness. That curiosity has turned into a practice including meditation and yoga, and just as importantly an understanding of how much of most of our lives are spent being distracted and sleepwalking through life, allowing for countless opportunities every day to slow down and become fully aware of what's happening in the present, even if just for a minute here and there.
But in the end, for me its all about science and wanting to live a better life and be a better person. To tie that back into the forum, very similarly to the way that discovering keto has given me a better life!0
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