Starting an exercise and weight program (p90x) while vLC

nvmomketo

Hi all, I've been eating LCHF for over a month, and been in ketosis for 3 weeks or so. I think I am settled in and fat adapted because my energy is coming up and I'm starting to get the urge to get moving, which I like!

I've started walking and have enjoyed that but I want to expand my exercise to include weights, more specifically P90x (modified to my fitness level). Those workouts are usually an hour long, although I may cut them in half depending on how I do, and involve focusing on a couple of body parts per day. It think it goes shoulders and back, legs, yoga, plyometrics, arms, kempo, then rest.

I've done P90x in the past and really enjoyed it but my inflammatory arthritis and a back injury has helped prevent me from doing it for more than a couple of months at a time... Okay, laziness played just a "tiny" role too.

Anyways, any advice when starting this? Do I need to worry about bonking if my workouts are 60 minutes or shorter? Is a low GI carb (like nuts) helpful to have before a workout? Is it fine to get right to it first thing in the morning? Should I worry about protein (my protein is set at 20% or just over 70g)?

I'm just wondering if you think there is anything I should know, or take into account, before starting weights on Monday?

Thanks all. You've been a great help.

AngInCanada

I started Les Mills Pump about 2 weeks into keto. I didn't bonk at all when lifting weights. I lifted a little bit lighter at the start but my lifts got stronger the farther I got on keto. Now running is a different story. There's some days I bonk at kilometer 2 lol. I say try it out and see how it works for ya!

wabmester

If you look at those Attia experiments, you'll see a couple of relevant tidbits: his aerobic activity (biking) burned a lot more calories than his anaerobic exercise, and his blood glucose spiked during exercise.

So that tells you that you will burn glycogen, but the burn rate isn't very high = low chances of bonking unless you run/bike.

Some people do a high-GI carb before a workout, and then protein after, but that's a minor tweak. I do fine totally fasted. Attia said he can go 6 hours on a bike with just water intake.

However, I will say that if you think you're fat adapted, you may not be. It really requires the muscles to be stressed, IMO. So the workout may kick your butt at first, but after a few more weeks, you'll truly be fat adapted.

My only advice would be to keep sodium on hand. I usually eat a pickle before and after a run. The other thing Attia showed was that ketone levels skyrocket after a long workout. It takes a while for your kidneys to adapt to the high level, and you'll dump both ketones and sodium.

IMO, this is just about the only use for ketostix -- if urine ketones are high, you are losing lots of sodium.

nvmomketo

AngInCanada wrote: »

I started Les Mills Pump about 2 weeks into keto. I didn't bonk at all when lifting weights. I lifted a little bit lighter at the start but my lifts got stronger the farther I got on keto. Now running is a different story. There's some days I bonk at kilometer 2 lol. I say try it out and see how it works for ya!

Thanks. I'm probably over thinking this - I' m not a competitive athlete, or really even an athlete right now. Lol

wabmester wrote: »

If you look at those Attia experiments, you'll see a couple of relevant tidbits: his aerobic activity (biking) burned a lot more calories than his anaerobic exercise, and his blood glucose spiked during exercise.

So that tells you that you will burn glycogen, but the burn rate isn't very high = low chances of bonking unless you run/bike.

Some people do a high-GI carb before a workout, and then protein after, but that's a minor tweak. I do fine totally fasted. Attia said he can go 6 hours on a bike with just water intake.

However, I will say that if you think you're fat adapted, you may not be. It really requires the muscles to be stressed, IMO. So the workout may kick your butt at first, but after a few more weeks, you'll truly be fat adapted.

My only advice would be to keep sodium on hand. I usually eat a pickle before and after a run. The other thing Attia showed was that ketone levels skyrocket after a long workout. It takes a while for your kidneys to adapt to the high level, and you'll dump both ketones and sodium.

IMO, this is just about the only use for ketostix -- if urine ketones are high, you are losing lots of sodium.

I've started reading Attia but his fitness level is far beyond mine that I am loath to apply his numbers to me. LOL

Thanks for the advice. You made a lot sense. Basically it sounds like I should just jump in, have some extra sodium, prepare for a butt kicking, and tweak as needed.... I'm almost looking forward to experimenting now.

saraphim41

What kind of pickles do y'all eat? My bread and butter pickles have sugar in the pickle juice. And I don't like dill pickles. So?

AngInCanada

saraphim41 wrote: »

What kind of pickles do y'all eat? My bread and butter pickles have sugar in the pickle juice. And I don't like dill pickles. So?

Bread and butter pickles are delicious but dulfulll of sugar. I eat baby dills

Kitnthecat

I made sugar reduced bread and butter pickles last year and will make more next month when my cucumbers are ready. I just googled recipes, chose a lower sugar recipe, then cut the sugar even more. It still had sugar in it, but just a fraction of the sugar of the original recipe. I figure that for a few pieces of pickle, the sugar impact will be minimal....unless I eat too many !

_Terrapin_

So P90X and your options. If you do this in a fasted state in the AM, personally I think you'll increase the chances of getting light headed and gassing out early in a workout. So, a simple TBSP of peanut butter and some coffee is enough to get you started. Post workout I'd have a high GI food like a potato so you replenish your glycogen levels quickly. If it fits within your caloric carbs I'd try this. The rationale of glycogen repletion is so subsequent workouts allow you to push through as opposed to gassing out though YMMV. P90X has a few components which are more aerobic then anaerobic. Plyometrics, yoga X, and Kenpo X are pretty good aerobic workouts. When you are doing the other anaerobic you can get away with less carbs post workout.

As with any workout routine, modifying makes sense and pay attention to your body. A back injury can be greatly improved with a strengthened core and adequate stretching. I do not know the extent of your injury so caution is best. And, last, I'd probably recommend increasing your protein consumption. You want efficiency with Protein so let it do what it is designed to do--repair and maintain muscle mass. Carbs for the glycogen and best of luck.

nvmomketo

_Terrapin_ wrote: »

So P90X and your options. If you do this in a fasted state in the AM, personally I think you'll increase the chances of getting light headed and gassing out early in a workout. So, a simple TBSP of peanut butter and some coffee is enough to get you started. Post workout I'd have a high GI food like a potato so you replenish your glycogen levels quickly. If it fits within your caloric carbs I'd try this. The rationale of glycogen repletion is so subsequent workouts allow you to push through as opposed to gassing out though YMMV. P90X has a few components which are more aerobic then anaerobic. Plyometrics, yoga X, and Kenpo X are pretty good aerobic workouts. When you are doing the other anaerobic you can get away with less carbs post workout.

As with any workout routine, modifying makes sense and pay attention to your body. A back injury can be greatly improved with a strengthened core and adequate stretching. I do not know the extent of your injury so caution is best. And, last, I'd probably recommend increasing your protein consumption. You want efficiency with Protein so let it do what it is designed to do--repair and maintain muscle mass. Carbs for the glycogen and best of luck.

You know your stuff. I almost feel like I should pay you for a consultaion. LOL Thank you.

Sounds like a good plan. I was actually thinking of nuts and coffee (with cream) to get me started. I'll add the veggie afterwards eventually. I think I'll try it for a while without and see how that goes.

My back injury was burst disc a few years ago. I get a lot less back issues now, but the injury resulted in some paralysis down one leg so I am slightly drop footed on my right. There are a few exercises in P90x I modify because of that. I tend to baby my back - I'm sure that doesn't help me one bit in the long run. darn it.

Thanks again.

I am actually going to put off P90x for one more week because we're going to have some company staying with us. I just can't start an exercise program, with all my sweaty, breathless flabbiness in front of my in-laws. I just can't. LOL Another week of moderate to vigorous walks for me.

annalisbeth74

I just started doing tae bo this week (and granted, I'm only a week in, but I've been LC for 3 months now) and I had a little salt before each workout. Today I skipped the salt and couldn't complete it. So that would be my advice!

I just grab a handful of salt packets from the hospital cafeteria where I work and keep them in my purse. Quick and easy for me, since I don't like pickles.

GSD_Mama

If I workout early morning, I down my loaded BPC, after workout I make me some bacon, eggs and avocado. All three nutrients I one meal.
Handful of nuts can also help right after working out or a protein shake.

nvmomketo

Thanks all. I appreciate the advice.

Salt. check.

All macros in a tastey meal and my favourite snack - nuts. Check.

saraphim41

Kitnthecat wrote: »

I made sugar reduced bread and butter pickles last year and will make more next month when my cucumbers are ready. I just googled recipes, chose a lower sugar recipe, then cut the sugar even more. It still had sugar in it, but just a fraction of the sugar of the original recipe. I figure that for a few pieces of pickle, the sugar impact will be minimal....unless I eat too many !

Can you give me the recipe you used, please. I love b&b pickles but had given them up because of the sugar. After I try your recipe, I'll attempt to substitute stevia. (Raising my own. It'll be ready by then.)

Also, starting a new routine with kettlebells. (Can't keep up with those workouts y'all do.) I have one kettlebell now. And will be getting another soon. Going from 10 lb to 15 lb. By the time it gets here I will have gotten back into practice. I love kettlebells. They're not really hard, and they work the entire body.

Kitnthecat

Oh oh, @saraphim41, I have no idea which recipe I used ! I just googled a few and chose one. I'm terrible for remembering what I've done. I should have printed the page I was looking at or at least written it down. Sorry, I don't have it.

But it was a recipe that also included sliced onions and red pepper. It was so pretty, and they were so good. This year I'll probably cut down the amount of onions and peppers as well to reduce carbs. I made half of them spicier with hot peppers too. I think I made 7 kinds of pickles last year, all new recipes that I have no idea where I got them. Also made 3 kinds of dills, beets and dilled carrots from garden veggies. I reduced sugar in all recipes.

If I can find the recipes, I'll let you know. And please let me know how stevia works. I tried searching for results, but I don't think there is much info regarding how well canned goods made without sugar fare in terms of staying preserved. I'm fairly new to canning, last year being my most adventurous canning expedition.

baconslave

saraphim41 wrote: »

What kind of pickles do y'all eat? My bread and butter pickles have sugar in the pickle juice. And I don't like dill pickles. So?

There are cheat/microwave recipes. We use one for asparagus. Except we sub in sucralose. My littles won't eat asparagus except "pickled", then they eat the heck out of it. We made some sweet pickles out of cucumbers from the aunt's garden. I haven't tried them yet, but we used the same "brine" as the asparagus, so it has to be good.

If you are feeling adventurous, like @Kitnthecat said, there are legit recipes out there for making honest pickled pickles. Takes time but making your own, you can control what's in there.
I personally about to embark on the adventure of making my own real saurkraut. My son is lactose intolerant and has other issues I feel are gut flora related. And maybe I'll make some yellow/orange/red peppers in similar fashion. Yumminess. Hubby bought the Art of Fermentation. I've been reading the section on veggies. Too bad zucchini is too starchy to use, because we have had a prolific crop so far.

professionalHobbyist

Triathalon training on low carb

I have not read the whole thing

I do agree with much of it

I had 9% of my food from veggie carbs and still had a fast 20 mile ride. Only stopped cuz it was getting dark

I think the food production industry has really soaked our nation in misinformation on the supposed need for so many carbs

http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2013/05/low-carb-triathlon-training/

KnitOrMiss

baconslave wrote: »

saraphim41 wrote: »

What kind of pickles do y'all eat? My bread and butter pickles have sugar in the pickle juice. And I don't like dill pickles. So?

There are cheat/microwave recipes. We use one for asparagus. Except we sub in sucralose. My littles won't eat asparagus except "pickled", then they eat the heck out of it. We made some sweet pickles out of cucumbers from the aunt's garden. I haven't tried them yet, but we used the same "brine" as the asparagus, so it has to be good.

If you are feeling adventurous, like @Kitnthecat said, there are legit recipes out there for making honest pickled pickles. Takes time but making your own, you can control what's in there.
I personally about to embark on the adventure of making my own real saurkraut. My son is lactose intolerant and has other issues I feel are gut flora related. And maybe I'll make some yellow/orange/red peppers in similar fashion. Yumminess. Hubby bought the Art of Fermentation. I've been reading the section on veggies. Too bad zucchini is too starchy to use, because we have had a prolific crop so far.

@baconslave I'm trying to incorporate more fermented stuff myself, but I've had zero luck so far... Any good recipes you want to share?? I love the sound of your "brine." I personally love roasting asparagus into oblivion, but having some other options, particularly that I could use with the less expensive frozen or canned stuff would be awesome. I'm terrified of sauerkraut. And I'm Polish. *hangs head low* The smell always used to be so off-putting when my grandma would make it. My fiance finally got me to try it on a Reuben a while back and it wasn't bad. And I love cabbage, so I'd be thrilled to try this... Thanks in advance!

baconslave

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

baconslave wrote: »

saraphim41 wrote: »

What kind of pickles do y'all eat? My bread and butter pickles have sugar in the pickle juice. And I don't like dill pickles. So?

There are cheat/microwave recipes. We use one for asparagus. Except we sub in sucralose. My littles won't eat asparagus except "pickled", then they eat the heck out of it. We made some sweet pickles out of cucumbers from the aunt's garden. I haven't tried them yet, but we used the same "brine" as the asparagus, so it has to be good.

If you are feeling adventurous, like @Kitnthecat said, there are legit recipes out there for making honest pickled pickles. Takes time but making your own, you can control what's in there.
I personally about to embark on the adventure of making my own real saurkraut. My son is lactose intolerant and has other issues I feel are gut flora related. And maybe I'll make some yellow/orange/red peppers in similar fashion. Yumminess. Hubby bought the Art of Fermentation. I've been reading the section on veggies. Too bad zucchini is too starchy to use, because we have had a prolific crop so far.

@baconslave I'm trying to incorporate more fermented stuff myself, but I've had zero luck so far... Any good recipes you want to share?? I love the sound of your "brine." I personally love roasting asparagus into oblivion, but having some other options, particularly that I could use with the less expensive frozen or canned stuff would be awesome. I'm terrified of sauerkraut. And I'm Polish. *hangs head low* The smell always used to be so off-putting when my grandma would make it. My fiance finally got me to try it on a Reuben a while back and it wasn't bad. And I love cabbage, so I'd be thrilled to try this... Thanks in advance!

I'll hunt the recipe for the pickled asparagus. DH has it. Of course, it is not fermented. But it tastes like the pickled version you can buy in the store, which is also not fermented, but it's yummy and salty nonetheless.

You can make other veggies, like peppers, carrots, or radishes (the less starchy veggies) just like kraut. All raw veggies have the lactic bacteria on them. I've seen even green beans. The guy who wrote Art of Fermentation ( (Sandor Ellix Katz) talked about brining and fermenting them, spiced with dill. I may try that sometime.

Basically you shred or chop your cabbage (or peppers-whatever) up. The smaller the pieces, the more surface area available for fermentation. Salt those puppies to taste. Then bruise them, either using hands or a mashing tool, until they release enough juice to cover all. You can make a non-chlorinated water and salt brine to use instead, but their own juice is best. The key to the growth of those natural bacteria is submersion in liquid. The process is impeded by air. You can add spices if you like. That slows the fermentation a little. But you have to watch and wait anyway. Fermentation requires occasional venting of the brew as gas is produced and will build up pressure. You have to watch it. It can take days to weeks depending. The warmer the temp where you store it, the faster the fermentation goes. But too cold will halt fermentation.

It's simple, AND complicated. I could write a novel in here and still forget important details. I do recommend trying to find that book (which is pretty much a Zen of fermentation manual, plus a how-to for just about every kind of fermentation there is from kraut, to mead, to kefir) at a library, or find a similar book on food fermentation. If you hate the veggies idea, you can get a SCOBY and make kefir or something else. There are so many different ways to make different fermented foods or drinks. You might find something you like. Meanwhile, I'm waiting on the kraut to get ready. I like to add it after cooking is done. I just mix it into veggies on my plate, or in my sauce, so the bacteria is still intact. It gives them a little kick, without being full-on-smacked with krautiness.

nvmomketo

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

I'm terrified of sauerkraut. And I'm Polish. *hangs head low* The smell always used to be so off-putting when my grandma would make it.

Tsk tsk.

nvmomketo

professionalHobbyist wrote: »

I think the food production industry has really soaked our nation in misinformation on the supposed need for so many carbs

http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2013/05/low-carb-triathlon-training/

I think you are 100% right. Thanks for the link. I'm going to take a look now.