IF, longer term fasting and maintaining muscle mass?

jumanajane

Question.... I was busy, busy yesterday and didn't eat until the evening. Calories nice and low but fat and protein way low too. How do people who do long fasts or IF ensure they are getting enough protein not to be losing muscle mass? Ok I need minimum of 70gm protein x4 cals =280 cals but to get fats at the percentage they should be according to macros????? Obviously fasting means far less cals but how do they maintain muscle mass. Must be detrimental long term????

jumanajane

Just bumping this as no one has commented yet. There are a few of us interested in fasting but cant/dont want to lose what little muscles we have left! Lol.

Dragonwolf

Obviously fasting means far less cals...

No it doesn't. A lot of people who fast actually eat the same amount of calories, depending on their fasting routine, as someone who doesn't fast, it's just either a smaller eating window or a different way to achieve a week-based calorie deficit. The Leangains guys build muscle on IF routines. They eat a ton of food. They just do so in a smaller window.

The point of fasting, particularly the smaller fasting windows (24 hours or less), isn't to starve oneself or reduce calories. It's to extend the fasting window, in which pretty much everyone makes ketone bodies, for as long as feasible/healthy/beneficial (ie - doesn't screw with hormones and doesn't eat into lean mass). In the context of building muscle, the idea behind an IF routine is to get the benefits of a bulk (lean mass gains) while minimizing the fat gains. Whether it actually works that way is a discussion for another thread, but that's the motive.

Calories nice and low

Why? Calories don't need to be severely restricted on this way of eating, for a number of reasons. Eat more food. If you're not able to eat enough food to fuel your body, then stop or change your IF routine. Getting enough food is the most important thing.

Ok I need minimum of 70gm protein x4 cals =280 cals but to get fats at the percentage they should be according to macros?????

For most of us, what matters most is the absolute numbers, not the percentages. Get at least 70g protein and at most 30g of carbs (or whatever your personal limit is). Fill the rest in as fat to satiety. For some people, a higher percentage of fat works better, while for others, a lower percentage works better. Don't get hung up on the percentage and the numbers in general. Let your body settle into what works best for it.

jumanajane

I guess I haven't explained myself very well. I regularly have days when I deliberately have a long window between meals....and others when I eat when hungry. I have kept reading about needing to eat enough protein to maintain muscle mass. Not increase...just maintain. My problem is on those days I struggle to eat anywhere near the grams of protein I am told on the keto calculator is the minimum I need. Unless I'm almost drinking cream or butter ( almost did today,lol) I dont/can't eat more so my cals are lower too. I would like to do more and/or longer periods but worry about the low protein level. Today I had 2 eggs and 2 1/2 oz bacon and thought my protein would be Ok bit. ...only 34 gms.
Just asking for advice/suggestions. I am not doing any weights or building regimen. Just want to maintain what little muscle I still have.

Juliste

You could either supplement with a protein shake (25-30 gr of protein) and/or choose meats that are higher in protein. You could do that in a 4 hour eating window (20/4)

Dragonwolf

jumanajane wrote: »

My problem is on those days I struggle to eat anywhere near the grams of protein I am told on the keto calculator is the minimum I need. Unless I'm almost drinking cream or butter ( almost did today,lol) I dont/can't eat more so my cals are lower too.

That means that your eating window is too short for you.

Again:

If you're not able to eat enough food to fuel your body, then stop or change your IF routine. Getting enough food is the most important thing.

I know that's not what you want to hear, but IF isn't for everyone, and it may not be for you if you can't eat enough during your eating windows.

jumanajane wrote: »

I have kept reading about needing to eat enough protein to maintain muscle mass. Not increase...just maintain.
Just asking for advice/suggestions. I am not doing any weights or building regimen. Just want to maintain what little muscle I still have.

You also asked:

How do people who do long fasts or IF ensure they are getting enough protein not to be losing muscle mass?

That is why I brought up the Leangains folks. If they can gain muscle with IF, then it's entirely possible to maintain lean mass while IFing, but the key is that calories (and therefore protein) are not lower.

That said, if you're doing, say, a 5:2 routine (5 days at or slightly above maintenance calories, 2 non-consecutive days of fasting), you can "make up" the protein on your feeding days. The one or two days a week that you're fasting won't outrun 5 other days of eating more than sufficient amounts of protein. Again, though, make sure you're eating enough food (read: at or close to maintenance) on those days, and don't try to do the full deficit that MFP wants you to do. (See also: alternate day fasting, 5:2 fasting)

On a side note, even if you only want to maintain what you have, I highly recommend some kind of strength training program. The body is very much a "use it or lose it" machine. All the protein in the world won't help you if you aren't using your muscles. Strength training is also important to bone health, because making the skeleton support weights it normally doesn't (either through things like weight training, or even push-ups) helps prevent bone demineralization, which is very important for women as we age.

sweetteadrinker2

Dragonwolf wrote: »

On a side note, even if you only want to maintain what you have, I highly recommend some kind of strength training program. The body is very much a "use it or lose it" machine. All the protein in the world won't help you if you aren't using your muscles. Strength training is also important to bone health, because making the skeleton support weights it normally doesn't (either through things like weight training, or even push-ups) helps prevent bone demineralization, which is very important for women as we age.

I second this. Maintaining muscle requires using the muscle.

And IF, being intermittent, doesn't require a decrease in calories consumed. If you want to keep your current schedule for fast feed there are plenty of super delicious super high calorie dishes that you could try.