Carbs = an addiction?
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Short Definition of Addiction:
Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.
Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.
This is from the American Society of Addiction Medicine. It seems like a pretty fair statement and I think what Ang is describing has a lot of these elements. So I'll chime in on the yes side.
Thanks for posting the definition. I tend to stay away from the sugar/carb addiction threads as they can become rather heated and nasty.
I do believe that people have different criteria for what qualifies as an addiction. Based on their own personal experiences. I personally have never seen first hand individuals dependant on drugs or alcohol so other than what I've seen on Intervention i don't really know what people go through. I can only imagine how awful it must actually be.
What I dont like seeing is others who have faced addictions to drugs/alcohol telling someone else that their addiction to carbs/sugar doesn't qualify as an actual addiction based on their own beliefs on the subject. Also i don't feel that brushing it of as someone 'making excuses' for their behavior, does anything other than insult the individual struggling with it. I would argue that the same could be said about any addiction, I've heard of people quitting drugs/alcohol cold turkey, so if some can make the decision to do that, then are others that haven't just making excuses for their behavior?
Based on the above definition of addiction, one does not have to be selling their body, etc to obtain a substance to be an addict. Therefore addiction can come in many forms and mean different things to different people.
Chemical dependency may be the term many are looking for when arguing that carb addiction does not meet the standards.0 -
I believe I am addicted to carbs/sugar. I used to think it was just all food. This was due to the physical response I had to it. If I went into a bakery I would get the shakes and couldn't concentrate. It would almost bring me to tears to be around it. I couldn't just have 1 piece of cake. I hid food. I was ashamed of what I ate. I lied about it. I would get the shakes if I wanted it. That first bite would calm me down. Now that I haven't had any processed carbs or sugar in 2 months that is all gone. So I would say yes, there can be some form of physical reaction to carbs/sugar.0
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I believe carbs can be addictive. There is a lot of research that indicates this may be the case. Based on my experience, I think the research is correct. The more of certain carbs I have (anything with added sugar is the absolute worst, but bread or wheat in general has a similar though slightly weaker effect on me) the more I want.
People talk about moderation, but it isn't realistic with carbs for me. I can moderate any other food with no problem...cheese, dairy in general, almonds, any meat, etc. But once sugar enters the equation, it sets off massive cravings that are extremely difficult to resist. It often results not only in finishing the sugary food (the entire pint of ice cream or entire bag of cookies) but then looking around for anything else I can binge on.
It is MUCH easier and sustainable for me to just not buy that stuff. Every month or two, when out in a social situation, I might have a small sugary something...but that is it. Anything more is asking for trouble.0 -
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I tried over and over to taper off of carbs and did not make it happen so I finally went off cold turkey. It was a hellish two weeks.0
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A lot of semantics always gets debated when this issue comes up.
For me, it's simple. Good food makes me less hungry after I eat it. Some carb-laden food (definitely not all of it) makes me want MORE after I eat it. I try to avoid the latter.
Don't wake up the Sugar Devil and I don't have to fight it
Carbs are a funny thing. I do eat them but only before exercise and burn them off
The craving does not kick in
But I have not had a doughnut in almost 2 years
There is something to keeping out of harms way0 -
I appreciate and respect the differing ideas here and appreciate that conversations like this don't suddenly "disappear" from the post list as others I have contributed to elsewhere have.
Having an open mind is important. As we have all figured out already when we decided to eat lots of fat! Lol0 -
I am firmly on the addiction bandwagon, mostly because of the inability of many people to stop eating excess carbs despite obvious physical detriment. I know someone who could get off their blood pressure medication, if they would give up soda. They did this for a while, but then went back to the soda and medication. I know someone with the elevated levels to suggest early stage NAFL (Non-Alcholic Fatty Liver). Finding that out convinced them to give up carbs, to stop and reverse the damage. They lasted less than 72 hours. I have a diabetic relative who knows their blood sugar is chronically too high and out of control, but will go out and buy enough pastry for 10 people. Same person even pointed out that the things he was buying drove his blood sugar up, but he had new faster acting insulin, so now he could eat them again.
There's hundreds of other examples. But, when you know something is harming you and you still can't stop, that's addiction in my book.0 -
I think a lot of the disagreement concerning this topic is because the word addiction is interpreted as something extremely compulsive, almost involuntary, enslaved, which is based mostly on a subjective experience. From my view across the pond, americans of the USA are very quick to politicize words...making them more normative. This drive to turn behaviors into disease, isn't doing anything good, IMO.
Avoidance. So, is addiction purely a psychological phenomenon or does it also have physiological processes ?
IMO, addiction does come in many forms and shapes. I was quite obsessed by videogaming for years. I'm also prone to bingeing on food and shopping. All of this is for ME a distraction. A way to avoid myself. Someone (slimzandra ?) said something like this: "Wherever I go, there I am." This is cut to the core about any addictive behavior. One is ultimately forced to face oneself if the core reason for "treating myself", "celebrating stuff", "bad day comforting"...is not addressed in the first place. I can choose different strategies to varying degrees, abstaining, moderating, occasional treat etc...but merely cutting down the supply will NOT remove why I have addictive behavior. I think this is one of the reasons why yo-yo dieters find themselves starting over. Ignoring the emotional component of destructive behavior patterns is like trying to fill a bag of grains with a hole in the bottom.
Birth defect. I think any addictive behavior has mostly a psychological component and it can have a physiological component. After watching Rob Sapolsky's lecture series on Human Behavioral Biology from Stanford, I think that some people do come at an disadvantage from birth. Poor frontal lobe function (low impulse control) paired with traumatic events/neglect amp up the difficulty to say "no" to oneself. It comes as no surprise that prisons are full of people who scores high on aggression paired with low impulse control. (Hare: Without Conscience) A bit more surprising to me was that people who scored high on aggressiveness, but also high in impulse control often were good leaders, Fortune 500-esque people. Some people are also more sensitive to the dopamine and other hormones that flush when experiencing pleasure. Making the emotional loop even more seductive. However, low impulse control does NOT mean that we as individuals can't say no to ourselves. It means it's harder. "No fate" to paraphrase Terminator 2.
Repeating patterns. We all know or have met that one person who in casual settings, the company xmas party, the old friends get together, always end up getting hammered, repeating the same old jokes. Or they reek alc on the bus or they drink themselves to stupor most nights. I know this, cause I grew up with it in my family. There are still family members who are seldom sober, addicted to pills. They do have the ability to say no. It's just executed very seldom.
YMMV. I don't like the labelling of trying to define which addictions are worse or "easier". In my case I've chosen to be addicted to lesser aggravating stuff. I'm still addicted to the act of eating. Keto is not the fix for this for ME, it just makes it easier to not go totally overboard stay within reasonable calorie limits with less negative effects.
What are your triggers ? I still have some "organic yummy candy" somewhere from last year. No trouble. Gimme a bag of onion rings and they're gone within 5 mins. Go figure. I'm working on the moderation part. The last bag of potato chips (fried in peanut oil) has been in my cupboard for a couple of months, but when I first started eating it, it was gone in 2 days. We all have our different triggers.
You're not alone. And if there is any consolation. You are not alone. One of the most profound and harrowing authors in world literature wrote an "autobiography" about his gambling addiction:And I believed in my system ... within a quarter of an hour I won 600 francs. This whetted my appetite. Suddenly I started to lose, couldn't control myself and lost everything. After that I ... took my last money, and went to play ... I was carried away by this unusual good fortune and I risked all 35 napoleons and lost them all. I had 6 napoleons d'or left to pay the landlady and for the journey. In Geneva I pawned my watch.
He describes how he moves from city to city in order to avoid paying his piling debts. He describes the despair, the hopelessness of being sucked back in. The feelings and reactions are classic, although the setting is from the 1860's. Who is he ? None other than Fyodor Dostoevsky, the author of Crime and Punishment, The Idiot etc. The book is called The Gambler.
Another book is Novel with Cocaine, author unknown. IMO, both books were pioneers in describing addictive behavior.
So it doesn't matter whether the hero in the story has to hail horsecarriages in St. Petersburg or secretly makes stashes of candy in the innermost closet in modern day life. The reaction patterns are the same. I have pondered a lot about this topic. I think the common denominator is inability to handle, accept feelings or never learnt how to healthily cope with having bad/conflicting/ambiguous feelings. Sometimes cognitive dissonance is an emotionally easier solution than facing the uncomfortable truth. Because, by logic, if you consciously admit to something, you'll have to act on it. Excuses are run out. Change is hard.
But it's possible. Work hard. Forgive yourself mistakes. Work hard again. No excuses.
Do you wonder who you are? BBC Child of Our Time - The Big Personality Test 2010
A docu series about a bunch of kids, Nature vs. Nurture. Interestingly enough, people who have experienced trauma in some form, often get to be extroverted with low conscientiousness = more impulsive, more led by validation. People who are high earners: extroverted, high conscientiousness, slightly less agreeable. Most successful in corporate ladder: Medium range. Happy/content people: rated higher agreeable by others. See for yourself it only takes 10 mins!
...now I need a drink...of water.
Edit: put in a book reference and inserted more info in that paragraph, plus some minor changes.
Oh, forgot to mention I quit smoking (slow process), quit my love affair with gaming cold turkey.0 -
I am absolutely convinced it's an addiction. For me, cutting carbs back to nothing produced similar feelings of anxiety and physical withdrawal that I went through when I quit smoking. My wife has also said the same thing. Over the last 10 months, the craving for carbs has also waned. The cravings are still there, but the intensity of those cravings is nothing like it used to be. Now it's more just background noise that I can easily choose to ignore. This sensation is not all that different from the cravings I still occasionally experience when I see someone smoking in a social situation. I remember the pleasure I once derived from smoking, but it's not something I have any desire to ever do again.0
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I'll leave it up to the experts to make the final call but as a layperson? I can't tell the difference between a drug addict and someone who abuses food. I have them all in my family: drug addicts, alcoholics and sick people who can't stop eating junk. They all know how bad it is, they all really, truly desperately want to change and almost all of them still abuse their substance of choice.
I think we've made a huge mistake putting an emphasis on the emotional aspects of overeating and ignoring the role the food itself plays.
ETA: From my own experience eating junk food (aka carbs) and smoking were exactly the same. I'd have the same feeling of well being while smoking/eating and then a gradual build up of needing/wanting to smoke/eat again for my next "fix". Over the years I needed ever increasing amounts to be satisfied and I worked my way up to a 2+ pack a day smoking habit and ever increasing, insane amounts of junk food and morbid obesity.
When enough was enough and I resolved to quit that was the same too. The same cravings, panicky feelings and anxiety. With cigarettes it became easier and easier over time. With junk food it got harder. I struggled every. single. day. for six months with cravings, food obsession and compulsions to eat and keep eating while eating a moderate carb, no junk food diet.
Within a month of eating a low carb diet all of that food obsession was just gone -- like someone flipped an off switch in my brain. It wasn't the only thing I need to do to gain control over my eating and come out the other side -- eating anytime, anywhere, anything habits needed to be changed as well -- but low carb plays a crucial role. And every time I indulge and eat high carb (holidays, special occasions) I'm prepared for the cravings and insatiable appetite that almost always follows so I don't relapse into old, bad habits.
I don't know if I'm an addict or not -- I don't think I am but I use some of the same strategies that addicts use to prevent me from abusing food.0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »I'll leave it up to the experts to make the final call but as a layperson? I can't tell the difference between a drug addict and someone who abuses food. I have them all in my family: drug addicts, alcoholics and sick people who can't stop eating junk. They all know how bad it is, they all really, truly desperately want to change and almost all of them still abuse their substance of choice.
I think we've made a huge mistake putting an emphasis on the emotional aspects of overeating and ignoring the role the food itself plays.
I disagree. Although I agree that food macros make a hormonal impact. This is something one can change, that is within reach. Blaming the substance of abuse isn't improving anyone's life. The abuse itself still wrecks havoc. And I'd politely disagree that abuse IS an emotional response whether it has a physical manifestation or not.0 -
When a drop in blood sugar creates a hormonal surge to eat (carbs specifically) I'd say yes, it's an addiction. Retraining your body to settle for lowcarb foods, burning keytones, and having high carb food unavailable (not stocking it in your kitchen) are all reasons LCHF works.
I agree with the poster who said eating low carb over time lowers the background noise of carbs. It's all about habits, and humans are very habit driven, but reaching for the right foods and for food that don't cause more cravings when the insulin rush from storing excess sugar as fat floods your body, so yes, it's physiological too!
It's not just a mental or emotional thing when you consider the blood sugar/insulin responses in your body and then the high sugar drop and desire for more quick energy. Keeping blood sugar low and stable all day are vital. Eat carbs, raise blood sugar. It's logic.0 -
I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in too. I find it hard to believe I had/have a food addiction, I need food to live.
I don't have any problem saying I "abused" the hell out of food. For me I didn't care what I ate just as long as there was plenty of it.
That's why I have soo much weight to lose.
I can honestly say I don't have "withdraw" because I still eat. LCHF
I did have a definite aha moment, where I knew I had to make a drastic change, but not the usual "rock bottom" event.
I quit smoking about 30 years ago, and that was hell on earth "cold turkey" talk about the "joneses". Nothing like a diet.
I've done tons of other diets were I didn't have the will power to see them through. "fall of the wagon"
I must be up to a nickle by now... I guess I can see both sides of this coin.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »Within a month of eating a low carb diet all of that food obsession was just gone -- like someone flipped an off switch in my brain.
I think it took longer than a month for me, but I also feel like a switch has been flipped. Some of my triggers have lost their power, which I frankly find amazing. But I don't push my luck.
I did a little experiment recently. I was full. No desire at all for food. Then I intentionally ate something that I found mildly addictive (cocoa-dusted almonds). I went back for seconds. So the fullness was enough to prevent cravings, but eating the addictive food was enough to trigger a craving for MORE.
But I was able to stop with almost no effort. For me, I think the problem is that some foods are just a quick and easy source of pleasure. A distraction from less pleasant tasks. The path of least resistance. And a path that makes you fat if you take it too often.0 -
There was a philosophy professor that had a class full of young students. He started the first class by asking a simple question:"If a tree falls in a remote forest, does it make a sound?"
One by one the students debated this topic, half the class said it didn't make a sound and the other half stated that it did. They debated for a couple hours. Then one bright student stood up and ask the professor to define the word, "Sound".
The Professor defined the word sound, "vibrations that travel through the air or another medium and can be heard when they reach a person's or animal's ear."
The debate was over. Since the forest was remote, there were no people to "hear" the tree falling. Therefore the tree did not make a sound when it fell.
Moral of the story, "Define your terms before debating". This will cut to chase the debate.
Now to the original post. Definition of the word, "Addicted":ad·dict·ed əˈdiktəd/ adjective
physically and mentally dependent on a particular substance, and unable to stop taking it without incurring adverse effects.
"she became addicted to alcohol and diet pills"
synonyms: dependent on; More enthusiastically devoted to a particular thing or activity.
"he's addicted to computers"
synonyms: devoted to, obsessed with, fixated on, dedicated to, fanatical about, passionate about, enamored of, a slave to; source: Google
Carbs are an addiction by the definition of the word. You will feel adverse effects when you stop eating them ~ if your addicted to them. I also state, its more than mental, its physical. There are hormones that cause the cravings, Wab can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they're called Gherlin? (or something like that).
Since the title of this post is: "Carbs = an addiction?" I think I answered that.
And I think that maybe a better question would be, "How can I handle my addiction to carbs?"
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Recovering Carboholic
Keto / IF / E.A.S.Y. exercise program
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »Within a month of eating a low carb diet all of that food obsession was just gone -- like someone flipped an off switch in my brain.
I think it took longer than a month for me, but I also feel like a switch has been flipped. Some of my triggers have lost their power, which I frankly find amazing. But I don't push my luck.
I did a little experiment recently. I was full. No desire at all for food. Then I intentionally ate something that I found mildly addictive (cocoa-dusted almonds). I went back for seconds. So the fullness was enough to prevent cravings, but eating the addictive food was enough to trigger a craving for MORE.
But I was able to stop with almost no effort. For me, I think the problem is that some foods are just a quick and easy source of pleasure. A distraction from less pleasant tasks. The path of least resistance. And a path that makes you fat if you take it too often.
The 30 day flipping an off switch effect sums up my experience when I finally got fed up and quit carbs cold turkey that my physical cravings for carbs stopped. It was like another 90 days before my mental addiction like cravings started to fade. Like I could remember what a lemon icebox pie tasted like and I want some. 6 months later I do not typically have a physical or mental craving for food that is going to cause me joint pain.
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I used to think I was addicted to carbs, but now I am not so sure because I am not dependent on eating them, have given them up for long periods without physical or mental anguish, and only had positive effects that I am aware of. I used to crave them like mad and binge eat and generally overeat. That was when I ate the SAD, HCLF, and high protein. Eating LCHF seems to have taken the addiction aspect away for me.
I would describe myself as using some of the synonyms such as passionate about or enamored of certain carbohydrates. But I see these as a choice not an addiction.0 -
I have what I imagine to be a mild addictive type of relationship with carbs. When I had some, I wanted more within a pretty short order of time. If I couldn't get any I got migraines, the shakes, cranky and lightheaded. I had to eat every 2-3 hours, right up to bed time or I felt poorly. When I went lower carb (150g/day), I had the initial poor feelings, but the headache and fatigue lasted longer, and then I switched to keto and it got more intense for a few days. It may just have been the switch to ketosis but I don't think that is it.
I'm a celiac and I gave up gluten a few years ago. When I went GF I had a huge migraine for well over a week, was tired, cranky and week... the same as what I experienced when I went vLCHF. I was anything BUT low carb back when I went GF because I was proving to myself that I wasn't missing out; candies, pop, baked goods, and pretzels were daily foods for me.
Withdrawal from gluten is not at all unusual. It's known among well read celiacs that giving up something (a food) that is not good for you can cause a withdrawal, so I wasn't surprised when it happened again when I cut my sugars down to almost nothing, and my carbs pretty low.
I'm not sure if my carb issue is an addiction, chemical withdrawal, prediabetic blood sugar madness, or whatever, but it was definitely something - for me. And I know it was more than a craving. I still crave a cola sometimes but being many weeks away from having one it is not hard to ignore that craving unlike when I hadn't had my carbs for 3 hours. KWIM?
Kudos to you Angie for owning it and moving one. That's pretty impressive.
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I ate some Cliff Blox before riding. Almost pure carbs. That was 100 calorie servings x2. Burnt 5 times that riding.
No carb cravings. I did have a 12 ounce steak for dinner.
It seems elevated sugar carbs not being used, they start the cravings. When I'm exercising it off it never happens
Idk...
I don't eat doughnuts for a snack. That would get me wanting more.0 -
I feel like I have a very bad relationship with carbs.
I don't tell many people this as it's embarrassing, but for the first 5 weeks of using MFP I made lunch for my kids and locked all the food in the garage and made my partner take the key with him to work. I would shake and sweat and and tried to break in a few times.
Definitely disordered eating. I don't know about addiction.0 -
@minties82 I am like you about the validity of the term 'addiction' as it relates to carb abuse. I left them cold turkey when tapering off did not work. It was a very hellish two weeks and by week 5 the cravings had pretty much faded. No more getting up in the middle of the night to drive to a drink machine to get a Coke was required. 0
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Very interesting! I recently had an "addicting" experience myself. I allowed myself to indulge in chips and cookies once night, after being "good" for many weeks. THe next day I was totally craving again --- I wanted to stuff my face with more chips and cookies, it was nuts! I managed to stay on track after 24 hours but it was difficult. Couldn't believe how little it took.0
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Came across this excellent article today and it reminded me of this conversation. http://authoritynutrition.com/how-to-overcome-food-addiction/
While I get that carbs are not an addiction to everyone, I can say they are for me and I have to cut sugar especially out of my life (potatoes too) or I'm seemingly helpless regarding them.
Will this change in the future? Hopefully.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWXXvOJ4SKI
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