WHAT IS THE RIGHT TYPE OF KETO for a newbie?
kinketo42
Posts: 14 Member
Confused as to which if the difference between the two types of Ketogenic diets that are (supposedly for weight loss) popular. Both agree with carbs under 20g..But what is the reason they are so different in what they claim as the right adjustment of fats and proteins. One is super high in fats and mod to low proteins. The other stated High proteins and mod to low fat... Which one is better for a newbie trying to learn the right way...sustainable as a lifelong way of eating?
Confused..:/
Confused..:/
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Ooh good question! I've tried both ways and fewer fat grams with more protein grams works better for me. Personally, I keep to over 30 and under 50 fat grams a day. Of course there are 9 calories per gram of fat and 4 calories per gram of protein (I think this is right?), so looking at the ratios like MFP shows can be kind of misleading. There are good arguments for either way. You'll most likely need to play around with your macros and see what works best for you.0
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I would think that neither is particularly spectacular. You need a certain level of protein to maintain your existing levels of muscle health.
I always think of carbs as a limit, protein as a range (better explanation in the link below for amounts), and fat only to satiety.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/KnitOrMiss/view/how-to-calculate-your-protein-needs-749965
This helps with overall macros, too: http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
Longer term, most folks find that high protein low fat is NOT SUSTAINABLE because it is hard on your kidneys. But some people are wired to better use protein, so it's really a case of finding what works for you.
THERE IS NO ONE RIGHT TYPE OF KETO.
What I would suggest, probably, is to use the first calculator to get an idea of what your range should be, use the second one to work out the rest of your macros. I would personally start at the lower end of the protein range unless you do a lot of heavy lifting and such. Then, maybe every 2-4 weeks, adjust a little more protein/a little less fat if it just isn't cutting it for you...
But: the first 4 weeks you just need to get in and adjust to the program. I do not recommend restricting calories during this time. That more than triples your chances of failing. Adjusting is difficult. Electrolytes must be well managed and salt dramatically increased.... There are a huge number of factors...0 -
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The closed group of FB ketogenic dieters bit my head off today.. first visit and they are ruthless. i really MISUNDERSTOOD they are TRULY HIGH PROTEIN…no allowance for eating higher fat, in fact protein is DOUBLE fats in their view.. ( from what I gathered while ducking missiles) so it's not the group for me as too much protein is bad for my sole kidney, but they say 'dont eat fats'…um..OK…not for me then. first time i've seen such a harsh reaction to STRICTLY reading EVERY rule and link..their leader believes in high protein..so be it. the closed LCHF group seems nicer..but too many tempting food pics..they are doing a Facelift Friday..pics of before and after faces are sure nice to see.0
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In my experience people fall into what is right for them after they start. My protein is often "too high" and my fat "too low", but it's what works for me, I'm one who can use protein very well.0
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I personally find high fat moderate protein so incredibly easy to follow. Hubby and I both adopted this a little over 5 weeks ago and it's going extremely well. We went cold turkey and it's been a lifestyle change that was very easy to switch to0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »I would think that neither is particularly spectacular. You need a certain level of protein to maintain your existing levels of muscle health.
I always think of carbs as a limit, protein as a range (better explanation in the link below for amounts), and fat only to satiety.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/KnitOrMiss/view/how-to-calculate-your-protein-needs-749965
This helps with overall macros, too: http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
Longer term, most folks find that high protein low fat is NOT SUSTAINABLE because it is hard on your kidneys. But some people are wired to better use protein, so it's really a case of finding what works for you.
THERE IS NO ONE RIGHT TYPE OF KETO.
What I would suggest, probably, is to use the first calculator to get an idea of what your range should be, use the second one to work out the rest of your macros. I would personally start at the lower end of the protein range unless you do a lot of heavy lifting and such. Then, maybe every 2-4 weeks, adjust a little more protein/a little less fat if it just isn't cutting it for you...
But: the first 4 weeks you just need to get in and adjust to the program. I do not recommend restricting calories during this time. That more than triples your chances of failing. Adjusting is difficult. Electrolytes must be well managed and salt dramatically increased.... There are a huge number of factors...
^^yep. Agreed. :-)
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I think that I may be eating a higher protein percentage than most in the keto group because I am recovering from injuries and eat much less calories. I try to get a minimum of 60 g of protein like a bariatric patient and finish the rest of my diet with fat. I think it is really a matter of trial and error and that you may want to vary the ratio. I agree with @knit that the important thing for me is to keep my carbs very low. My carbs generally come from nut butters, supplements, and medication.0
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The low carb high fat group on Facebook are very lovely... they follow the lowcarbisland.com way of eating.0
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KETOGENICGURL wrote: »The closed group of FB ketogenic dieters bit my head off today.. first visit and they are ruthless. i really MISUNDERSTOOD they are TRULY HIGH PROTEIN…no allowance for eating higher fat, in fact protein is DOUBLE fats in their view.. ( from what I gathered while ducking missiles) so it's not the group for me as too much protein is bad for my sole kidney, but they say 'dont eat fats'…um..OK…not for me then. first time i've seen such a harsh reaction to STRICTLY reading EVERY rule and link..their leader believes in high protein..so be it. the closed LCHF group seems nicer..but too many tempting food pics..they are doing a Facelift Friday..pics of before and after faces are sure nice to see.
I had the same experience. I had joined the group & when I was having a stall back at the beginning of the year. I upped my protein as instructed and did start to lose again briefly but after about a week I started to gain weight and was feeling awful so I said I was going to go back to moderate protein & that my body didn't like all that extra protein & they ripped me a new one. I promptly left the group.
I think keto is a very personal thing, everyone is different and the guidelines are just that, a guide. You really have to tweak your macros until you start to see success. Personally I do best with high fat,moderate protein & low carbs.0 -
Krisafb- Personally I do best with high fat,moderate protein & low carbs.
Yes, me too..
it was my mistake to assume that "Blue" for me is the same a "Blue" for them hahaahah. they come off like a cult.0 -
Confused as to which if the difference between the two types of Ketogenic diets that are (supposedly for weight loss) popular. Both agree with carbs under 20g..But what is the reason they are so different in what they claim as the right adjustment of fats and proteins. One is super high in fats and mod to low proteins. The other stated High proteins and mod to low fat... Which one is better for a newbie trying to learn the right way...sustainable as a lifelong way of eating?
Confused..:/
Succinctly:
A higher protein diet is not a good diet for beginners and should be medically supervised, because high protein can harm you. This type of Keto diet is VERY RARE.
When someone talks about a normal Keto diet, it is High fat, Medium protein and low carb. This is the VAST majority of the definition of the Keto diet.
And there are more than two types and variations, here is my blog on the subject:
DittoDan's Keto Sub Groups Blog
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
103 pounds down, 21 to go.
It's Ketogenic or Bariatric Surgery! How I Found the Ketogenic Diet
Previous Discussions on the LCD & Keto Groups
Blog #10 Keto: Abbreviations, Acronyms & Terminology Used on the LCD & Keto Discussion Groups Updated
Blog #13 DittoDan's Milestone's, First's And Good Changes Since Starting the Ketogenic Diet Updated
DittoDan's Keto Blogs
How I got Off of Diabetic Prescriptions Drugs Since I Started Keto Updated
Blog #11 Really Good Keto Websites
Low Carb Discussion Group on MFP (LCD)
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I get a bit miffed by all the what is keto discussions as well. Ketogenic eating is NOT a version of a weight loss diet. Its an often long-term therapeutic method of eating, which may alleviate or, with some luck, cure various serious conditions. What the vast majority of folk are talking about on MFP are lower carb/higher fat diets (LCHF diets), set at various levels of severity and variating, depending on what books you have read and who you have chosen for your current diet guru.
A ketogen diet is, (IMO the first focus) as low in protein as is necessary to provide an indididual's necessary nourishment, because any extra protein converts to carbs and then is stored as fat. Your carbs are also very low (around 20g or lower) because you want to force the body out of a carb burning state into a fat-burning state and have it stay there to provide the therapeutic effects. The vast majority of caloric input will be fat.
I wish we were all more purist and just talked about LCHF diets, which vary a lot and all work with different variations of nutrients and so forth, and all equally valid and effective for most people who are fatter than they want to be. I would be very rich if I got a £ for every person on MFP or other forums who go straight from weight watchers to 'keto' and then have problems, both because they have no useful knowledge base and no will to do the hard work - as someone has rightly said already on this thread, there isn't too much 'wiggle room' with a real ketogenic diet! This way of eating can get quite obsessive, because sometimes its a life & death matter. Why do it if that sort of stringency isn't needed?0 -
I didn't even know there were two types. I find that most people do 75%/20%/5% fat, protein and carbs. That's what I've been seeing around anyway.0
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I just thought keto was eating low enough carbs so one makes ketones. I didn't think there were divisions between high fat or higher protein. I thought that was just a personal choice.
I follow high fat with 5%C, 20-25%P, and 70-75%F. It seems to work for me. If I was very active I would bump up my protein a bit more, or try to.0 -
I just thought keto was eating low enough carbs so one makes ketones. I didn't think there were divisions between high fat or higher protein. I thought that was just a personal choice.
I follow high fat with 5%C, 20-25%P, and 70-75%F. It seems to work for me. If I was very active I would bump up my protein a bit more, or try to.I just thought keto was eating low enough carbs so one makes ketones. I didn't think there were divisions between high fat or higher protein. I thought that was just a personal choice.
I follow high fat with 5%C, 20-25%P, and 70-75%F. It seems to work for me. If I was very active I would bump up my protein a bit more, or try to.
Same here!!! Those same macros are working for me too!! I guess if I stop progress (stalled/ plateau) for about a month, then I guess it will time to rethink and readjust until I find my optimal level... ❤️keto on.0
