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The Simplicity of Fasting by Dr. J. Fung
KETOGENICGURL
Posts: 687 Member
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com
Even Dr. Fung got tired trying to teach LCHF..his last fasting post says it all.
_______________
What is the advantage of using a strategy based on intermittent fasting versus simple dietary changes alone – such as the LowCarb HighFat diets that we prefer? There are several good ones.
Effectiveness_vs_Simplicity
Reason #1 – Simplicity
Simplicity.
When I started out my clinic, I tried to persuade people to adopt the LCHF diet. I was doing this for people of all ages, of all nationalities. It is difficult enough for a well educated English speaking, computer literate person to adopt a strict LCHF diet. This is hard given all the conflicting advice flying around the internet and the airwaves.
We would tell people to go Low Carb and find food diaries full of whole wheat bread and plates of pasta. Many people honestly did not understand the diet at all. I spent lots of time and grey hair trying to change their diets, but many people simply did not understand. Furthermore, their diets had not significantly changed in 40 years, and they were having a lot of trouble changing it.
Since the Low Fat approach had been indoctrinated into them for the last 20 years, it was hard for people to understand how to eat a diet high in natural fats, rather than the low fat fare they were used to. Using a completely different approach such as fasting was much easier for people to understand.
Fasting itself, is so simple that it can be explained in two sentences. Eat nothing including sugars or sweeteners. Drink water, tea, coffee or bone broth. That’s it. Even with this simple method, we (Megan, not actually me anymore) spend hours explaining ‘how to’ fast.
The most obvious benefit to simplicity, though is demonstrated by the startlingly simple graph above. The simpler, the more effective. Amen.
Reason #2 – Cheap we-love-cheap-sheep
While I may prefer patients to eat organic, local grass fed beef and avoid the white bread and processed foods, the truth is that these foods are often 10 times the cost. Some people, simply put, cannot afford to eat that well.
This is due to the distorting effect of government subsidies on cost of food. Since grains enjoy substantial government subsidies, it is far cheaper to make something out of flour than whole foods. This means that fresh cherries cost $6.99/ pound and an entire loaf of bread will cost $1.99. Feeding a family on a budget is a lot easier when you buy pasta and white bread.
But that does not mean they should be doomed to a lifetime of type 2 diabetes and disability. Fasting is free. Actually, it is not simply free, but it actually saves people money because you do need to buy any food.
MealsAwayFromHomeFrom The Atlantic “Cheap Eats” March 8, 2013
Reason #3 – Convenience
While I may advise people to always eat a home cooked, prepared-from-scratch meal, there are many people who simply do not have the time or inclination to do so. The number of meals eaten away from home has been increasing over the past few decades. While there are many who try to support the ‘slow food’ movement, it is clear that they are fighting a losing battle.
Don’t get me wrong, I love cooking as much as the next guy. But it just takes a lot of time. Between work, writing, and taking my kids to school stuff and hockey, it just doesn’t leave a lot of time.
So asking people to devote themselves to home cooking, as noble as it may be, is not going to be a winning strategy. Fasting, on the other hand is the opposite. You save time because there is no time spent buying food, preparing, cooking and cleaning up. It is a way to simplify your life. I often skip breakfast in the mornings. Man, the time saved! I often skip lunch, too. Man, the time saved! If time is money….
Reason #4 – Cheat days
While I might advise people to never, ever again eat ice cream, I don’t think that is actually very practical advice. Sure, you might be able to swear off of it for 6 months, or 1 year, but for life? And would you really want to? Think about it. Think about the joy that some people get from savouring an especially delicious dessert at a wedding feast. Do we need to deny ourselves that little bit of pleasure forever? Let us all enjoy our birthday salad feast! Thanksgiving kale festival! All you can eat brussel sprouts! Yes, life just got a little less sparkly. Forever is a long time.
Now, I am not saying that you can eat dessert every single day, but fasting gives you the ability to occasionally enjoy that dessert because if you feast, you can balance the scale by fasting. It is, after all, the cycle of life. The reason these ‘cheat’ days are important is because it builds compliance. Simply put, it makes the diet easier to follow and changes it into a lifestyle instead. We often counsel that the most important aspect of fasting is to fit it into your life.
Reason #5 – PowerClenched-fist-300x300
I often treat type 2 diabetic patients. Most of them have had it for 10 years or more. So, of the obese patients I treat, they are often the worst of the worst in terms of obesity and insulin resistance. Sometimes, even a strict LCHF diet is not strong enough. The fastest and most efficient way to lower insulin is intermittent fasting.
In the end, you must ask yourself this question. If you do not eat anything for 1 week, do you think you will lose weight? Even a child understands that you must lose weight. It is almost inevitable. So its efficacy is unquestioned.
There are only two remaining questions. First – is it unhealthy? On the contrary, there are extraordinary health benefits. Two – can you do it? Well, if you never try it, you will never know. I think almost everybody can do it.
Reason #6 – Flexibility
Fasting can be done at any time and in any place. Furthermore, if you do not feel well for any reason, you simply stop. It is entirely reversible within minutes.
Consider bariatric surgery (stomach stapling). These surgeries are done so that people can fast for prolonged periods of time. And they tend to work, at least in the short term. But these surgeries has tons of complications, almost all of which are irreversible.
Furthermore, why would we assume that somebody cannot fast for 1 week or 1 month without ever having tried it?
Reason #7 – Add to any diet
Here is the biggest advantage of all. Fasting can be added to any diet. That is because fasting is not something you do, but something you do not do. It is subtraction rather than addition.
You don’t eat meat? You can still fast.
You don’t eat wheat? You can still fast.
You have a nut allergy? You can still fast.
You don’t have time? You can still fast.
You don’t have money? You can still fast.
You are travelling all the time? You can still fast.
You don’t cook? You can still fast.
You are 80 years old? You can still fast.
You have problems with chewing or swallowing? You can still fast.
What could possibly be simpler?
Even Dr. Fung got tired trying to teach LCHF..his last fasting post says it all.
_______________
What is the advantage of using a strategy based on intermittent fasting versus simple dietary changes alone – such as the LowCarb HighFat diets that we prefer? There are several good ones.
Effectiveness_vs_Simplicity
Reason #1 – Simplicity
Simplicity.
When I started out my clinic, I tried to persuade people to adopt the LCHF diet. I was doing this for people of all ages, of all nationalities. It is difficult enough for a well educated English speaking, computer literate person to adopt a strict LCHF diet. This is hard given all the conflicting advice flying around the internet and the airwaves.
We would tell people to go Low Carb and find food diaries full of whole wheat bread and plates of pasta. Many people honestly did not understand the diet at all. I spent lots of time and grey hair trying to change their diets, but many people simply did not understand. Furthermore, their diets had not significantly changed in 40 years, and they were having a lot of trouble changing it.
Since the Low Fat approach had been indoctrinated into them for the last 20 years, it was hard for people to understand how to eat a diet high in natural fats, rather than the low fat fare they were used to. Using a completely different approach such as fasting was much easier for people to understand.
Fasting itself, is so simple that it can be explained in two sentences. Eat nothing including sugars or sweeteners. Drink water, tea, coffee or bone broth. That’s it. Even with this simple method, we (Megan, not actually me anymore) spend hours explaining ‘how to’ fast.
The most obvious benefit to simplicity, though is demonstrated by the startlingly simple graph above. The simpler, the more effective. Amen.
Reason #2 – Cheap we-love-cheap-sheep
While I may prefer patients to eat organic, local grass fed beef and avoid the white bread and processed foods, the truth is that these foods are often 10 times the cost. Some people, simply put, cannot afford to eat that well.
This is due to the distorting effect of government subsidies on cost of food. Since grains enjoy substantial government subsidies, it is far cheaper to make something out of flour than whole foods. This means that fresh cherries cost $6.99/ pound and an entire loaf of bread will cost $1.99. Feeding a family on a budget is a lot easier when you buy pasta and white bread.
But that does not mean they should be doomed to a lifetime of type 2 diabetes and disability. Fasting is free. Actually, it is not simply free, but it actually saves people money because you do need to buy any food.
MealsAwayFromHomeFrom The Atlantic “Cheap Eats” March 8, 2013
Reason #3 – Convenience
While I may advise people to always eat a home cooked, prepared-from-scratch meal, there are many people who simply do not have the time or inclination to do so. The number of meals eaten away from home has been increasing over the past few decades. While there are many who try to support the ‘slow food’ movement, it is clear that they are fighting a losing battle.
Don’t get me wrong, I love cooking as much as the next guy. But it just takes a lot of time. Between work, writing, and taking my kids to school stuff and hockey, it just doesn’t leave a lot of time.
So asking people to devote themselves to home cooking, as noble as it may be, is not going to be a winning strategy. Fasting, on the other hand is the opposite. You save time because there is no time spent buying food, preparing, cooking and cleaning up. It is a way to simplify your life. I often skip breakfast in the mornings. Man, the time saved! I often skip lunch, too. Man, the time saved! If time is money….
Reason #4 – Cheat days
While I might advise people to never, ever again eat ice cream, I don’t think that is actually very practical advice. Sure, you might be able to swear off of it for 6 months, or 1 year, but for life? And would you really want to? Think about it. Think about the joy that some people get from savouring an especially delicious dessert at a wedding feast. Do we need to deny ourselves that little bit of pleasure forever? Let us all enjoy our birthday salad feast! Thanksgiving kale festival! All you can eat brussel sprouts! Yes, life just got a little less sparkly. Forever is a long time.
Now, I am not saying that you can eat dessert every single day, but fasting gives you the ability to occasionally enjoy that dessert because if you feast, you can balance the scale by fasting. It is, after all, the cycle of life. The reason these ‘cheat’ days are important is because it builds compliance. Simply put, it makes the diet easier to follow and changes it into a lifestyle instead. We often counsel that the most important aspect of fasting is to fit it into your life.
Reason #5 – PowerClenched-fist-300x300
I often treat type 2 diabetic patients. Most of them have had it for 10 years or more. So, of the obese patients I treat, they are often the worst of the worst in terms of obesity and insulin resistance. Sometimes, even a strict LCHF diet is not strong enough. The fastest and most efficient way to lower insulin is intermittent fasting.
In the end, you must ask yourself this question. If you do not eat anything for 1 week, do you think you will lose weight? Even a child understands that you must lose weight. It is almost inevitable. So its efficacy is unquestioned.
There are only two remaining questions. First – is it unhealthy? On the contrary, there are extraordinary health benefits. Two – can you do it? Well, if you never try it, you will never know. I think almost everybody can do it.
Reason #6 – Flexibility
Fasting can be done at any time and in any place. Furthermore, if you do not feel well for any reason, you simply stop. It is entirely reversible within minutes.
Consider bariatric surgery (stomach stapling). These surgeries are done so that people can fast for prolonged periods of time. And they tend to work, at least in the short term. But these surgeries has tons of complications, almost all of which are irreversible.
Furthermore, why would we assume that somebody cannot fast for 1 week or 1 month without ever having tried it?
Reason #7 – Add to any diet
Here is the biggest advantage of all. Fasting can be added to any diet. That is because fasting is not something you do, but something you do not do. It is subtraction rather than addition.
You don’t eat meat? You can still fast.
You don’t eat wheat? You can still fast.
You have a nut allergy? You can still fast.
You don’t have time? You can still fast.
You don’t have money? You can still fast.
You are travelling all the time? You can still fast.
You don’t cook? You can still fast.
You are 80 years old? You can still fast.
You have problems with chewing or swallowing? You can still fast.
What could possibly be simpler?
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Replies
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I totally see the same thing as he does. People tell me they want to eat low carb, high fat and then they're eating bread and pasta and 0% fat yogurt with fruit at the bottom. People try my way of eating... and want to know how much fruit they can have. Seriously! They do this all the time.
I don't envy people who have to explain this to others.0 -
Thanks for posting this. I am almost through all his videos on obesity and he is my new hero. He gives hope for a well and happy old age.0
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Yes, Mr. Goat…and the weirdo looks i get when I try to explain why so much fruit can affect some of us…so disbelieving. No oranges, no bananas??? Surely my... [insert name of dessert here]... can't hurt?
As an MD it must have driven his logical mind nuts!
( even reading the Egg Fast group blog on FB, the moderator keeps repeating.".there is NO FOOD LIST..its eggs, fats some cheese..period." but people can't grasp it! )
Just watched the dietdocotr interview with the woman who lost 240 pounds…amazing AND she STILL has to eat <10 carbs a day..and no fruit.. she had intense inflammation and back pain at over 300 lbs, and when she met Dr. Westman she couldn't believe it was possible to eat fats.
she tried the starving on 600 calories a day of Medifast type liquids..did it THREE TIMES, lost a ton of weight, paid a lot o money, hungry, miserable, hair fell out… I forgot about those crazy diets.
now she's still not able to eat more than a bite of a dessert or some carb dish..but the trade off being active is worth it for her. 20 min of the 30 interview is free on the DD site.0 -
Ty @KETOGENICGURL, again a good share from you
The fastest and most efficient way to lower insulin is intermittent fasting.
Many people on keto report lowering FBG, getting off medication, in effect remission of T2. For some very hard cases, keto alone is not enough. When you think bout the mechanics of keto and fasting: They are both dietary interventions that push in the same direction, but with differences. Both «simulate» metabolic starving to some extent. By stacking keto + fasting may work better for people on the margins. Like two Lego blocks matching each other. Is it fun ? No. View it as a therapy method to attempt repair beta cell function.
Letting the pancreas getting a much needed rest occasionally is paramount for people with bad glucose metabolism, from everything I've gathered on the subject.
I'm not saying everyone should do this. Maybe just changing up your foodtypes is sufficient! But if you're one of the people who have multiple metabolic dysfunctions...then reconsider the methods you're currently doing. Worth a shot!
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3168743/
From the study above:After 1 week of restricted energy intake, fasting plasma glucose normalised in the diabetic group (from 9.2 ± 0.4 to 5.9 ± 0.4 mmol/l; p = 0.003). Insulin suppression of hepatic glucose output improved from 43 ± 4% to 74 ± 5% (p = 0.003 vs baseline; controls 68 ± 5%). (...)
Maximal insulin response became supranormal at 8 weeks (1.37 ± 0.27 vs controls 1.15 ± 0.18 nmol min−1 m−2). (...)
From conclusion:
Normalisation of both beta cell function and hepatic insulin sensitivity in type 2 diabetes was achieved by dietary energy restriction alone. This was associated with decreased pancreatic and liver triacylglycerol stores.
It was only 9 subjects (3 dropped out), but they did a semi fast on shakes and vegs at 600 kcal, for 8 weeks. Interestingly, results came in after only 1 week! Since I've been doing 5:2 fasting protocol, I think just eating keto foods on the «fasting» days works too. No need shakes as long as get the micronutrients needed, but that's just my opinion.0 -
I've just started Fung's IF protocol in the hope that it will reduce my insulin resistance more than just keto alone has done. The first fasting part didn't seem difficult at all and now I'm on an eating day. His ideas make a lot of sense to me.0
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This is excellent. Thank you for sharing. I have been on the fence regarding IF and I think I want to try skipping breakfast two times a week, then eating Keto the rest of the time.
I need to do some more reading, but just to clarify, I could have coffee with butter and coconut oil for breakfast on those "fasting days", because there are no carbs and it won't affect my BS, correct?0 -
Foamroller wrote: »Ty @KETOGENICGURL, again a good share from you
Both «simulate» metabolic starving to some extent. By stacking keto + fasting may work better for people on the margins. Like two Lego blocks matching each other. Is it fun ? No.
I do keto + IF and I think it's fun.
(LEGOs are fun too)
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inspirationstation wrote: »I need to do some more reading, but just to clarify, I could have coffee with butter and coconut oil for breakfast on those "fasting days", because there are no carbs and it won't affect my BS, correct?
That is the BPC school of thought, but not Dr. Fung.
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/practical-fasting-tips-part-12/All calorie-containing foods and beverages are withheld during fasting.
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inspirationstation wrote: »I need to do some more reading, but just to clarify, I could have coffee with butter and coconut oil for breakfast on those "fasting days", because there are no carbs and it won't affect my BS, correct?
That is the BPC school of thought, but not Dr. Fung.
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/practical-fasting-tips-part-12/All calorie-containing foods and beverages are withheld during fasting.
Okay, thanks. Good to know.
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great link thanks for this0
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Foamroller wrote: »Ty @KETOGENICGURL, again a good share from you
Both «simulate» metabolic starving to some extent. By stacking keto + fasting may work better for people on the margins. Like two Lego blocks matching each other. Is it fun ? No.
I do keto + IF and I think it's fun.
(LEGOs are fun too)
Stacking IF and Keto is arguably more fun, especially for someone with insulin issues, than trying to do IF without a LCHF foundation. =/fangirlish wrote: »I've just started Fung's IF protocol in the hope that it will reduce my insulin resistance more than just keto alone has done. The first fasting part didn't seem difficult at all and now I'm on an eating day. His ideas make a lot of sense to me.
Interestingly for me, even the combination of keto and IF wasn't sufficient. I've ended up having to go the way FIT_Goat did and drop the plants, too. Even on very low carb and doing IF, I was struggling to keep my FBG numbers under 100mg/dL and it was slowly creeping upward. I still do a kinda-sorta IF routine, since I don't actually eat for breakfast (might have a latte with cream in the mornings, though), though it's not an official thing by any means.
The hardest part for people like us is that sometimes "this one thing" doesn't work and we have to go to the "extremes" and/or do a lot of experimenting to actually get results, but we never know until we fiddle around with things.0 -
It was really eye opening to see this woman who lost 240 reveal how very difficult it was..but her back pain and the limits if drove her to was her motivator. she had tears in her eyes describing being able to walk and do things with her children.
we think LCHF is the salvation..and it is, for many, but as Baconslave has said.."Keto works until it doesn't" ..being able to find and DO another regimen like IF takes using our "endurance gene."
I admire people who stick with it no mater what..perserverance is often the true success!!0
This discussion has been closed.