Could it be...?

InADarkRoom

I feel rough - I mean awful! My nose is blocked and running at the same time. I initially thought it was hayfever and took an extra antihistamine but that had no effect at all. My head is stuffy. I'm so very tired.

I woke up like this this morning. Today is my third day (this time around!) of being really good and limiting carbs to 20g or less. I also had weird cramps in my arms last night and really struggled to get to sleep.

So I'm wondering....could this possibly be the "flu"? How likely is it? Can you tell I'm almost hopeful?!

Edited to add: if it is the flu, should I start to see some weight loss soon...even just a little?

FIT_Goat

It could be. Add more electrolytes and see if that helps. If it does, it probably is.

Will you see weight loss soon? Maybe. There is no guarantee of when the weight loss will come. Only that, if you are consistent, it will come eventually.

GaleHawkins

I had a lot of weird stuff happen for the first few months getting into eating <50 grams of carbs daily but it all turned out fine.

I went 6 FULL weeks and did not drop a pound but I was dropping in size.

I had started getting annual physicals a couple years before starting very LCHF so knew I had health issues due to being fat but nothing with the heart or other critical systems so I did not get real concerned with the weirdness of very LCHF but would Google and read about what might be going on.

wabmester

If you're restricting carbs to 20g, you were ketogenic by day 2.

You're probably dumping a lot of the ketones in your urine, and they are being accompanied by sodium for cation coverage.

So, yes, you'll feel like crap and you'll lose a bunch of water weight. Do people really look forward to these effects?

deksgrl

I thought the keto flu was symptoms like lethargy and aches, not nasal congestion? So, not sure that your stuffy head is related.

KnitOrMiss

@wabmester I know she does, because it means she's actually making progress she hasn't made before.

But yes, sounds almost exactly like the mild flu I had when I bumped from LC to full keto... Electrolytes like crazy!

wabmester

deksgrl wrote: »

I thought the keto flu was symptoms like lethargy and aches, not nasal congestion? So, not sure that your stuffy head is related.

Yeah, the nasal symptoms may be unrelated, but a lot of people experience them. Low-carb does affect immune system, mucus production, and it has an impact on food for bacteria and fungi. So the mechanism isn't clear, but the association with low-carb is possible.

InADarkRoom

Thanks for the replies guys. @KnitOrMiss has got me totally figured out too!
Just peed on a stick and it's showing trace. And according to the scales I'm down about 3lbs. Not sure whether to believe them though!

wabmester

No specific studies, but mucus is a glycoprotein -- i.e., you need glucose to make it. When you restrict carbs, the body seems to conserve the remaining glucose for the brain. Anyway, that's my theory.

I've definitely noticed a reduction in mucus production -- my sinuses are clear and my eyes no longer have any discharge in the morning.

But mucus is VERY important for protecting the GI tract, so I get nervous about restricting carbs too low for too long. It'd be nice if we had better data to guide us.

ambergem1969

InADarkRoom wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys. @KnitOrMiss has got me totally figured out too!
Just peed on a stick and it's showing trace. And according to the scales I'm down about 3lbs. Not sure whether to believe them though!

My theory is that when the scale is down, I believe it. When it goes up, I don't

deksgrl

Very interesting.

KnitOrMiss

And when I went low carb to start, I didn't get much flu at all, maybe a headache here or there. But after a month of low carb, dropping to keto, I felt like I had a horrific sinus infection, congestion and all. Taking meds heavy enough to tranq a horse barely touched me. Took my electrolytes serious and ramped them up, instantly relief. So yes, for some of us, congestion and stuffiness can be Keto/Carb flu symptoms.

I haven't noticed lessening in my mucus production yet, but I am SO UP for some relief there... I have major year round allergies, and any easing there would be a miracle!

InADarkRoom

ambergem1969 wrote: »

My theory is that when the scale is down, I believe it. When it goes up, I don't

I love that!! I might steal that philosophy!

@deksgrl: I do have the aches and severe lethargy too, that's kinda why I thought maybe it was the "flu"

mlinton_mesapark

I have seen an improvement in my seasonal allergy symptoms so far. I'm curious to see what happens when Cedar Fever season starts in mud-December. I'll probably have to give up dairy to truly avoid symptoms.

KnitOrMiss

mlinton_mesapark wrote: »

I have seen an improvement in my seasonal allergy symptoms so far. I'm curious to see what happens when Cedar Fever season starts in mud-December. I'll probably have to give up dairy to truly avoid symptoms.

I imagine that will probably be the way of it for me, too! I've cut down dramatically, but for whatever reason, I've noticed new sensitivities to all kinds of food I didn't have a month ago. It's really frustrating. Coconut oil, pickles, any high salt items, sometimes pepperoni, last night it was heavy cream! UGH.

wabmester

I googled around a bit for any insights into the sinus / mucus thing.

A little about the structure of mucus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mucin

The dense "sugar coating" of mucins gives them considerable water-holding capacity and also makes them resistant to proteolysis, which may be important in maintaining mucosal barriers.

How much do we make?

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1997-03/856841521.An.r.html

Mucus is by far the most abundant substance secreted by mammals, with saliva in a distant second place. Studies in rodents have shown that, in the gastrointestinal tract alone, the mucus layer ranges from 120 to 830 microns thick depending on the location (Atuma et al., 2001), and the mucus is completely regenerated about every 20 hours (Faure et al., 2002). Given the large surface area of the gastrointestinal tract, a substantial amount of mucus must be continually secreted to maintain this mucus layer: To maintain a comparable mucus layer and turnover rate in the human gastrointestinal tract would require the daily production of more than 4 liters of mucus per day, with more than 300 ml per day secreted in the large bowel alone.

We produce a LOT of mucus each day. Multiple liters of the stuff. The viscosity is a function of water content. And water binds to mucus via the hydrophilic glucose coating.

So thick mucus is a sign of too little water. Perhaps due to either dehydration or a reduction in the density of the glucose coat.

Sinus congestion is less about mucus production and more about swelling in the sinuses.

Still unknown: does carb restriction limit mucus production and/or glycosylation of mucin? This would be a great research topic!

wabmester

Thanks, but my ninja google skills aren't a good substitute for actual research.

This guy says mucin production can be limited by a protein deficiency, but no evidence for limitation due to glucose.

http://www.lucastafur.com/2011/03/ketomyths_08.html

But what exactly determines GI mucin production? Mucin biosynthesis is highly sensitive to protein malnutrition, specially threonine deficiency (1,2,3). Other aminoacids like serine, proline and cysteine can also promote mucin synthesis (4). When intestinal epithelial goblet cells are deprived of glucose, butyrate modulates MUC gene expression and becomes the main regulator of mucin synthesis (5). There is no evidence that the abscence of dietary glucose affects mucin synthesis. So any deficiency of mucin in ODs would occur because of a low protein intake, not because of a glucose deficiency (call it a secondary-glucose deficiency if you wish).