Ketostix.....
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InADarkRoom
Posts: 84 Member
Rightly or wrongly, I've been using them as a measure of how I'm doing. They give me an idea of where my threshold is. For the best part of a week I've been showing ++ ketones. And this afternoon I'm just about showing trace.
I know a lot of people say that blood is the better way to measure but I can't afford that or the breath analyzer. So my question is: how can I tell if I'm still in ketosis? I'm not confident enough to go by feeling. I have been feeling less hungry, bit more energy, but I don't yet have that "I feel great!!" feeling.
Should I be concerned about the readings? Do I need to cut the carbs even further?
I know a lot of people say that blood is the better way to measure but I can't afford that or the breath analyzer. So my question is: how can I tell if I'm still in ketosis? I'm not confident enough to go by feeling. I have been feeling less hungry, bit more energy, but I don't yet have that "I feel great!!" feeling.
Should I be concerned about the readings? Do I need to cut the carbs even further?
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The color of the ketostix can be affected by your hydration level and numerous other things. So if you've drank more today or tested in the afternoon, it could be lighter. As long as it shows trace, it means you are in ketosis. It's like a pregnancy test; you are or you aren't.
Mine never go above small and mostly stay in trace. Last night before bed was the first time I've ever seen it go anywhere close to moderate. And that was weird to me because it was right after I completed a 4 mile hour long walk. /shrugs I guess I was just really dehydrated.
I don't worry so much about it personally. I'm using mine up and not going to buy anymore.0 -
InADarkRoom wrote: »Should I be concerned about the readings? Do I need to cut the carbs even further?
The readings are useful for one thing: if you're peeing out ketones, you're also losing sodium. If you don't feel great, ensure that your sodium intake is sufficient. How do you know it's sufficient? You'll feel great when it is.
Do you need to lower carbs? Absolutely not! You are making ketones if your carb intake is below about 150g/day. Period. Why would you want more ketones than you need?
How do you know if you're getting the benefits of ketosis? Solely by your hunger level. If your appetite is suppressed, you're on the road to weight loss.
If you're an athlete and want to maximize fat-adaptation, then it might make sense to target a certain ketone range for a few weeks. Otherwise not.0 -
@InADarkRoom I use the $15 breathalyzer about daily. The color light blow meter uses the same type acetone sensor but cost a lot of $$$. While neither sticks or blow meters are accurate like the blood meter they will tell you Yes or No on being in ketosis. On the blood meter I find a reading of 1.5 +/-0.5 is a good ketone range for me to lose weight.
ebay.com/itm/LCD-Digital-Police-Breath-Alcohol-Tester-Analyzer-Detector-Breathalyzer-Advanced-/311159276709?hash=item487289c4a50 -
If you are maintaining keto levels, you are maintaining ketosis. You don't need a strip for that. The strips are exciting to use, in the beginning, but don't truly indicate much once you are fully adapted. You won't have as many ketones spilling into your urine to show on the strip after you've adapted. So, it sounds like you are there. I think you will know, now, if you drop out of ketosis in one of two ways: 1. From the foods you choose to eat, and 2. The terrible side effects that can come from the bad choices of number 1. One of the best parts is that if you do make a bad choice, the side effects don't last too long (as long as you get back into making the best choices) and you get back into ketosis quickly!
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The strips are exciting to use, in the beginning, but don't truly indicate much once you are fully adapted. You won't have as many ketones spilling into your urine to show on the strip after you've adapted.
Maybe. Maybe not.
This is the conventional wisdom (at least on the net), but I'm not convinced that's how the body works.
Ketone demand is pretty constant, and it's mostly driven by the brain.
Ketone production is highly variable. It's just not very tightly regulated. If you generate too much, it lowers blood pH, and the kidneys need to dump them to regulate pH.
Some things do change in the first week or two, but it's mostly within the kidney. The adaptations involve ketones, uric acid, and ammonia. It's more complicated than just increased utilization of ketones, but the bottom line is that urine ketone levels should track blood ketone levels pretty well over time and will be higher in the first week.0 -
Is that not why the more accurate test is by blood measurement? Yes, the functions of every organ is transformed with this woe, but quantities of ketone excess spilling over into measurable levels on the strips would decrease over time, would it no?. This is just my personal opinion, mixed with some personal experience. No supporting research to go along. I welcome others opinions though!0
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Blood ketones are a measurement of VENOUS blood levels. I.e., you're just measuring the leftovers after the brain has slurped up its needs. It is accurate, but it doesn't tell you much.
Urine ketones are not "excess" per se. They are an acid, like uric acid, that are dumped to regulate blood pH.
My guess is that blood pH drops with increasing ketone production (i.e., ketoacidosis), and pH balance is brought back by dumping enough ketoacid. So the levels should track each other pretty well, and that's what experiments have shown too (well, I only read one experiment that tracked both).0 -
Interesting theory @wabmester! Thanks for your thoughts. I have always compared it to glucose spilling into your urine at times, when elevated. Then can be near negative on the glucose urine strips, even though blood glucose can be in the elevated range. Is interesting to hear others opinions too, though!0
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Back in the day I was a medical technologist. It was recommended that Ketones be measured in the first morning urine. It will be more consistent as the first morning urine is more concentrated. Later in the day the ketone concentration will be more variable due to fluid intake. If you are looking for comparitive data, the first morning is the way to go.0
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Do you need to lower carbs? Absolutely not! You are making ketones if your carb intake is below about 150g/day. Period. Why would you want more ketones than you need?
How do you know if you're getting the benefits of ketosis? Solely by your hunger level. If your appetite is suppressed, you're on the road to weight loss."
?? I am not an expert on this low-carb stuff, but I though I would have to eat between 20 - 50 gr of carbs a day to enter ketosis.0 -
fastforlife1 wrote: »?? I am not an expert on this low-carb stuff, but I though I would have to eat between 20 - 50 gr of carbs a day to enter ketosis.
That's a pretty standard prescription, but you start making ketones at much higher carb levels (150ish) and you make more ketones as carbs decrease (or as they're consumed via exercise, for example).
Whatever works for you is what matters. Personally, I can tolerate a fairly high carb intake. For others, it might be 0g.
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In that case it is good that you qualify your own statement:
Do you need to lower carbs? Absolutely not! You are making ketones if your carb intake is below about 150g/day. Period. Why would you want more ketones than you need?
That's because the OP might want less insulin than they're getting?0 -
Since ketones are the product of fat being metabolized, wouldn't it suggest that higher ketone concentration is the result of higher fat metabolism? The portion of metabolized fat that came from consumed or body fat would depend on when you last ate and how much consumed fat was available.
If I understand correctly, someone should expect to see a rise in ketones (because of fat burning) during exercise or fasting. And would see fewer ketones during inactivity or if burning off carbs.
So while, you're either in ketosis or you're not, is true, the amount of extra unused ketones you're dumping, I would think, would be suggestive of a higher fat burn.
You don't need ketones to burn fat.
You need to burn fat to create ketones.
Also, ketone strips are showing you a result based on about 2 hours prior to testing. At least that's what my daughters endocrinologist told us.0 -
Ketones are produced in the liver. They are a product of partial FFA oxidation, but there's still FFA available for energy. They are not a product of fat metabolism in muscles and organs using fat for fuel. Higher concentrations of ketones actually slow down FFA release -- that's how the level is self regulated.
If you're making enough ketones to have them show up in the urine, your insulin is very low (unless you're diabetic, in which case the combo of high insulin, high glucose, and high ketones is a Bad Thing).
This is a very good study that looked at ketosis and weight loss:
http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2002-021480
there was no correlation between the level of plasma β-hydroxybutyrate and weight loss
The lower insulin levels do seem to help some people with weight loss. So do the appetite reducing effects. I've never seen any evidence that the level of ketones matters.
That being said, it may matter for some benefits other than weight loss, but even epilepsy seems to be helped by some effect other than the blood ketone level. Phinney and Volek never really justify their target levels of ketosis -- they just want you to always stay in ketosis for the health benefits, and 50g/day of carbs is a way to ensure that.0
