Starting over, a bit scared of issues that happened last time

dawlfin318

I am back after 4mos off. My mom ended up in the ICU on a ventilator in May- and since then, my eating is out of control.

I was having trouble on my LCHF lifestyle around March and April. I stopped sleeping- even ambien did not work, lost a lot of hair, and still have dry brittle nails. I became seriously irritable (not good at work).

I think my diet was too strict for too long? And I recently wondered about why things got so wrong. Maybe burning fat for fuel releases chemicals that are stored in the fat? Think of the mercury stored in tuna that pregnant women should avoid- that kind of thing. Who knows what was tucked into all of that fat??

I need to find a middle ground this time. I will be very strict for the first two weeks but then i think I need to up my carbs a bit, more than last time- maybe paleo? I know getting off of sugar will be so good for me- so that is my first goal. I am also going to exercise at the same time this time. I turn 50 in March (six months to get there) and am gifting myself with a healthy diet and some much needed fitness.

Any input from you experts on anything, is appreciated. I was getting enough salt- himalayan and from bouillon. I was taking magnesium and potassium. So electrolyte imbalance doesn't seem to be the issue that messed me up.

Afraid to face the scale, and see how much damage I have done since May- off to get new batteries.

Anyhow, hello old friends! I am back. Albeit very carefully this time.


-Andrea

radiii

I'm one of the folks who has had nothing but good "side effects" from switching to keto, I can't really speak to your problems specifically, but I hope you're able to sort them out and figure out what works best for you in every way.

I know that there are people here who find great success on 100g carbs a day, that's still low carb and a big change for the vast majority of Americans, so it seems like a great idea to just start there and give it some time and see how it feels. Lower the carb count if you aren't seeing any negative effects and if you're still having cravings or struggling after some time (a month or two?), but do it slowly and take your time to figure out what the perfect balance is for you.

Don't worry, we'll all be here to help you out along the way if you need it, good to see you back and ready to give it another go!

dawlfin318

thank you so much Radiii! That sounds doable. I can adjust it as I go.

KittensMaster

Sounds like you have some major things going on

Hair and skin issues are not common

I have been low carb for two years with no issues. No idea what your exact diet is but something sounds bad wrong.

Maybe see a nutritionist after a doctor.

ki4eld

Well, I can tell you why I stopped sleeping, lost 70% of my hair, my nails stopped growing... too few calories. Now, mine is doctor-ordered. Even now, my calorie intake is abnormally low. Again, still doctor ordered. During the hardest restriction, I went into full starvation mode. Hair, nails, skin problems, severe body pain, vision and cognitive issues, some kidney malfunction. Granted, those were better than staying fat for any longer, but they were tough. I'm just now starting to come back from my January-April starving time.

Let me be clear that LCHF had zero to do with the starvation mode. It was *all* caused by too few calories and some micros that were off (and always will be). Now that my weight is lower (down 120lbs), the calorie deficit is much smaller, so the same 800-1000 or so calories a day isn't as abnormally low as it was before.

The fat-soluble toxins are a real problem, but they're usually excreted by the kidneys and liver without incident. There are function tests that can keep an eye on those organs to ensure they're working properly. Yes, this can be an issue for those with compromised systems, but they're rarely an issue for those with healthy organs. I have 2 kidneys, but neither functions at 100%. My liver wasn't in great shape either. Both have been horribly stressed with the low calories, but my keto diet has nothing to do with that. It's all the too-low calories.

To me, it seems your calories went too low. What "too low" looks like for you will be different than what it looks like for me. That's why I'm saying you need to see a doctor and a dietitian. Find a dietitian who understands LCHF, so they don't try to blame it on that. Get a doctor to order a full blood panel. That should include all the micros, fasting blood glucose, as well as TFT for thyroid, LFT for liver, BUN and the Creatinine series for kidney function. If any of those are out of whack, the doc can start setting you right. If they're all good, you then have a baseline.

Get thee to a doctor and a dietitian.



By the by, I'm 45 and my diary is open, but please remember my diet is doctor-ordered and supervised.

Sunny_Bunny_

I second @2Poufs thoughts there. My first thought was that I wondered if your calories were too low.
I can tell you like to jump in aggressively when getting started as you mentioned wanting to be super strict for a couple weeks to start this time. I wonder if you went with too aggressive calorie deficit last time. And I know you said electrolytes were ok, but this one is seriously difficult to understand just how much it may take during the first few weeks at keto levels. Not uncommon to be upwards of 4000g a day, which is A LOT of salt!
My advise would be either to cut carbs back little by little, week by week. Or cut carbs back to keto but do not cut calories until you adapt a couple weeks later. And of course, salt.

DietPrada

KittensMaster wrote: »

Sounds like you have some major things going on

Hair and skin issues are not common

I have been low carb for two years with no issues. No idea what your exact diet is but something sounds bad wrong.

Maybe see a nutritionist after a doctor.

Hair and skin issues ARE actually common. Just because you've had no problems doesn't mean they're rare. I have seen many many posts on here and on the Keto facebook group complaining about hair loss, and skin rashes and itchyness. I have had itchy skin on and off for months mainly around my neck but sometimes all over my body. No rash. I read somewhere it can be a reaction to the fat being secreted through your skin and I find a 24 hour allergy pill seems to control it when it gets too bad. As others have said, I think hair loss is from not eating enough. I haven't had this issue but I tend to eat up around 1800 calories a day.

totaloblivia

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

I second @2Poufs thoughts there. My first thought was that I wondered if your calories were too low.
I can tell you like to jump in aggressively when getting started as you mentioned wanting to be super strict for a couple weeks to start this time. I wonder if you went with too aggressive calorie deficit last time. And I know you said electrolytes were ok, but this one is seriously difficult to understand just how much it may take during the first few weeks at keto levels. Not uncommon to be upwards of 4000g a day, which is A LOT of salt!
My advise would be either to cut carbs back little by little, week by week. Or cut carbs back to keto but do not cut calories until you adapt a couple weeks later. And of course, salt.

4000g a day would be a lot of salt 4kg!!! I know you meant 4000mg though!

Dragonwolf

EbonyDahlia wrote: »

KittensMaster wrote: »

Sounds like you have some major things going on

Hair and skin issues are not common

I have been low carb for two years with no issues. No idea what your exact diet is but something sounds bad wrong.

Maybe see a nutritionist after a doctor.

Hair and skin issues ARE actually common. Just because you've had no problems doesn't mean they're rare. I have seen many many posts on here and on the Keto facebook group complaining about hair loss, and skin rashes and itchyness. I have had itchy skin on and off for months mainly around my neck but sometimes all over my body. No rash. I read somewhere it can be a reaction to the fat being secreted through your skin and I find a 24 hour allergy pill seems to control it when it gets too bad. As others have said, I think hair loss is from not eating enough. I haven't had this issue but I tend to eat up around 1800 calories a day.

It depends on how you define common. You also have to keep in mind that the people for whom LCHF is going off without a hitch aren't going to be posting as much. No drama = nothing to talk about. So while there are more posts here, it doesn't mean that it's actually particularly common. Also, "uncommon" does not mean "never happens." Just because you've had problems, doesn't mean everyone (or arguably even most people) do, too.

I'm pretty sure his definition is more along the lines of "it's not something that typically happens on a properly-executed LCHF diet, and if you're experiencing it, it's most likely that something isn't quite right."

Hair loss and brittle nail issues are nearly always caused by too few calories and corrected by eating more. This is where tracking intake -- especially in the beginning -- can help.

The rash is something that's still uncommon, but not unheard of. There are a few different theories about the exact causes/mechanisms, but as you found, it's generally a histamine thing, and usually transient.

dawlfin318

Wow, thanks everyone! I was getting plenty of salt. I also supplemented mag. and potassium. I ate at least 1500 calories/ day. My hair loss stopped in July, but my nails are the same. I wasn't exercising either.

I have eaten clean the last two days, and being off sugar already feels better.I am not crazy hungry.
I did see my doctor when I was sick and she did get my bmp , thyroid, and iron. All were normal. I really wonder about toxins. I will ask for a toxicology panel if things go wrong again.

Thank you all, your input is appreciated!
-Andrea

bluefish86

@dawlfin318 I also have very brittle nails. For a while I had to trim them daily or else they would break and peel. Biotin and a daily fish oil supplement have really made a difference for me.

Dragonwolf

dawlfin318 wrote: »

Wow, thanks everyone! I was getting plenty of salt. I also supplemented mag. and potassium. I ate at least 1500 calories/ day. My hair loss stopped in July, but my nails are the same. I wasn't exercising either.

I have eaten clean the last two days, and being off sugar already feels better.I am not crazy hungry.
I did see my doctor when I was sick and she did get my bmp , thyroid, and iron. All were normal. I really wonder about toxins. I will ask for a toxicology panel if things go wrong again.

Thank you all, your input is appreciated!
-Andrea

Sounds like you might be deficient in biotin, which is what generally keeps hair and nails healthy. If you can stand/tolerate them, I highly recommend eating eggs and liver for a while to get that back up. The liver has the added bonus of being a nutrient powerhouse in general, which will help you get any other nutrients you may be deficient in.

Try to get an ounce or so of liver in a day on average, or don't be afraid to eat a fair amount of eggs. For a while, I would eat at least four a day.

bluefish86 wrote: »

@dawlfin318 I also have very brittle nails. For a while I had to trim them daily or else they would break and peel. Biotin and a daily fish oil supplement have really made a difference for me.

I'm a big fan of Green Pastures' fermented cod liver and high vitamin butter oil blend. I got my husband to start using it to help with his teeth (he has tons of cavities and whatnot) to hopefully defray the cost of dental work ($25 a month vs tens of thousands in dental work, between fillings, prosthetics, and root canals? Yeah, definitely worth a try), and it has done wonders for him.

KittensMaster

@Dragonwolf

Any particular liver type?

I have not bought or cooked liver.

They do have chicken and calf liver at the grocery store.

KnitOrMiss

@KittensMaster Braunschweiger is like liver pate in a tube, if you don't want to do the preparation yourself, at least at first. Can be eaten on something, or stand alone. (My mom would make this as sandwiches, on toast, or with a spoon all the time when I was growing up, and I never understood why! She also would attempt liver and onions, but always overcooked it brutally, making it a miserable experience.) I have some at home, but I haven't braved busting it open yet. I have a childhood aversion (see above) I'm working to overcome... I keep meaning to make some flax crackers so I have something to put it on (generally served with high end cheese and/or classy crackers)...

I've also seen Rocco DiSpirito - celebrity chef, add 4-8 oz of diced raw liver with 1-2 pounds of ground meats (usually hamburger) without affecting the taste to where picky families cannot tell it's been added. I've yet to be brave enough to sneak this in on my fiance as his taste buds are infinitely more finicky than my own. But supposedly he had really good results doing this.

KittensMaster

@KnitOrMiss

Sounds interesting!

I mix in pork sausage with hamburger so I will try some liver

Seems easy enough

I have seen that Braunschweiger near the bacon at the grocery.

Sitting next to bacon, it must be good!

Thanks!!

KnitOrMiss

If you determine you like the pate, there are a ton of keto recipe version out there. Oh, and my understanding with liver is that you don't want to overcook it (I don't know if this applies when browning meats), or it gets tough, chewy, and generally unappealing!

DietPrada

I eat pate and liverwurst all the time Usually 50g pate and a 40g tub of philly cheese together for lunch. Pate is a great Keto food.

KittensMaster

Great ideas!!

jennybird99

Just a quick comment about "side effects" of eating low/lower/zero carb.
We should all remember that just because some things happen around the same time, it doesn't necessarily translate into one caused the other. It's important to see your doctor about hair loss that is more than just a little shedding. It could be something autoimmune-ish.
Good luck.

Sunny_Bunny_

totaloblivia wrote: »

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

I second @2Poufs thoughts there. My first thought was that I wondered if your calories were too low.
I can tell you like to jump in aggressively when getting started as you mentioned wanting to be super strict for a couple weeks to start this time. I wonder if you went with too aggressive calorie deficit last time. And I know you said electrolytes were ok, but this one is seriously difficult to understand just how much it may take during the first few weeks at keto levels. Not uncommon to be upwards of 4000g a day, which is A LOT of salt!
My advise would be either to cut carbs back little by little, week by week. Or cut carbs back to keto but do not cut calories until you adapt a couple weeks later. And of course, salt.

4000g a day would be a lot of salt 4kg!!! I know you meant 4000mg though!

Thanks for catching my boo boo. You're right, I goofed.

jillmcafee

I have been staying between 75-100g per day, losing weight, and feeling good (other than this cold I caught!).

totaloblivia

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

totaloblivia wrote: »

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

I second @2Poufs thoughts there. My first thought was that I wondered if your calories were too low.
I can tell you like to jump in aggressively when getting started as you mentioned wanting to be super strict for a couple weeks to start this time. I wonder if you went with too aggressive calorie deficit last time. And I know you said electrolytes were ok, but this one is seriously difficult to understand just how much it may take during the first few weeks at keto levels. Not uncommon to be upwards of 4000g a day, which is A LOT of salt!
My advise would be either to cut carbs back little by little, week by week. Or cut carbs back to keto but do not cut calories until you adapt a couple weeks later. And of course, salt.

4000g a day would be a lot of salt 4kg!!! I know you meant 4000mg though!

Thanks for catching my boo boo. You're right, I goofed.

Sorry I wasn't meaning to be pedantic, just had a funny image in my head!

totaloblivia

EbonyDahlia wrote: »

I eat pate and liverwurst all the time Usually 50g pate and a 40g tub of philly cheese together for lunch. Pate is a great Keto food.

Do you eat the pate with anything? Or just on its own?

Dragonwolf

jennybird99 wrote: »

Just a quick comment about "side effects" of eating low/lower/zero carb.
We should all remember that just because some things happen around the same time, it doesn't necessarily translate into one caused the other. It's important to see your doctor about hair loss that is more than just a little shedding. It could be something autoimmune-ish.
Good luck.

Hair loss is also a hormonal issue, especially if it shows up as "male patterned." A very large portion of women have estrogen dominance -- so much so that people think it's normal (hello, PMS/PMDD) -- but it's not and it can throw the rest of the hormones out of whack, too. Dropping carbs tends to drop TSH, which can often be enough to cascade the rest of the hormones, causing issues commonly associated with "women going low carb." What's more likely happening is that the women had underlying issues that were brought to light with the usually-benign changes that come with low carb.

DietPrada

totaloblivia wrote: »

EbonyDahlia wrote: »

I eat pate and liverwurst all the time Usually 50g pate and a 40g tub of philly cheese together for lunch. Pate is a great Keto food.

Do you eat the pate with anything? Or just on its own?

I eat it with cream cheese. Once you get it out of your mind that you need to have crackers with everything (or potatoes as a side) it's very liberating. There are alot of dips and spreads and cheeses that you can have sans crackers. You can also use sliced up cucumber if you MUST have something.

KittensMaster

EbonyDahlia wrote: »

totaloblivia wrote: »

EbonyDahlia wrote: »

I eat pate and liverwurst all the time Usually 50g pate and a 40g tub of philly cheese together for lunch. Pate is a great Keto food.

Do you eat the pate with anything? Or just on its own?

I eat it with cream cheese. Once you get it out of your mind that you need to have crackers with everything (or potatoes as a side) it's very liberating. There are alot of dips and spreads and cheeses that you can have sans crackers. You can also use sliced up cucumber if you MUST have something.

Good idea

I was amazed to see someone using large romaine leaves as taco shells

I have used one as the top of a burger bun before

And of course the UnWhich from Jimmy Johns!

MoiAussi93

Hair loss is common among women who lose a lot of weight, even if they are not low carb and even if they have a small calorie deficit.

I have lost 100 pounds. When I got to 60 or 70 lost I started to notice my hair was getting thinner. At the time I was just keeping carbs under 150, and many people would not even consider that low carb. I was eating around 1400 calories, so I was certainly not starving myself.

I saw my GYN...he said my hormones were normal (I am 44). I saw my primary care doctor, she tested my thyroid, iron levels and some other things I don't recall. All tests were normal. She told me that significant weight loss often causes this, even if done slowly and safely and without any dietary deficiencies. (My googleing confirmed this) She said it can simply shock the system, and that the hair usually grows back when weight stabilizes. It is now getting thicker again, and I can see the new growth. I have been maintaining for several months, so it seems she was right.

BTW, an out of town friend who visited while this was happening noticed my hair was thinner and said the same thing happened to her several years ago when she lost weight...she did NOT do low carb at all. She is a lifelong vegetarian who eats a lot of carbs.

Just my experience, but the point is a lot of things can cause hair loss and there is a good chance it is something other than low carb. You should get tests run to rule out any thyroid issues or micronutrient deficiencies if you have problems again. Just my experience...

bluefish86

totaloblivia wrote: »

Do you eat the pate with anything? Or just on its own?

Someone mentioned in another post eating it with celery. I've tried it and it's been life-changing.

dawlfin318

jennybird99 wrote: »

Just a quick comment about "side effects" of eating low/lower/zero carb.
We should all remember that just because some things happen around the same time, it doesn't necessarily translate into one caused the other. It's important to see your doctor about hair loss that is more than just a little shedding. It could be something autoimmune-ish.
Good luck.

I stopped losing my hair and all the other symptoms went away when I went back to my old WOE (in late May), except for the brittle nails- still a problem.

Thanks for the input, I do appreciate it. I have a nurse at work that dieted (controlled her calories) when I did the keto thing. She also had nail changes. So, I think any diet could cause that.

If I thought I could not eventually find a way to do this in a healthy way, I would not be back. I really think eliminating the sugar is what my particular body needs. Sugar makes me fat, not the fat I eat. But for me, something went haywire! I was just way too restricted, for too long I think.

I am not counting carbs this time so far- just eating clean, and not overeating, or under eating. Making sure to eat many fresh (no starch )veggies ,eggs, butter, cheese,chicken, and the like . I will add berries and yogurt on week three.

I am looking at fat loss over the next six months, not per week. Not using the scale, but using that pair of pants I want to fit back into as a guide. I used to lift weights, and when I did, I added muscle way too easy (for a girl) - which tips the scales.

I was weighing in way too often- for me anyway- it made me obsess over everything I ate. And I probably did eat too few calories- I never tracked dinner because I had no idea how to count anything my hubby cooked. I just did not eat the starch, and sugar. I wasn't hungry much. When I started feeling ill, my weight loss stopped even when I knew I did not under eat. I bet I was producing cortisol in excess, and that was why the weight loss stopped.

If anyone can learn from my mistakes so be it. This is where we help each other.

-Andrea

nvmomketo

KittensMaster wrote: »

@KnitOrMiss

Sounds interesting!

I mix in pork sausage with hamburger so I will try some liver

Seems easy enough

I have seen that Braunschweiger near the bacon at the grocery.

Sitting next to bacon, it must be good!

Thanks!!

That is brilliant... Why didn't I think of that? I too have "issues" with liver that I am trying to get over. That is a great solution.

greenautumn17

RE Liver -
I have a problem with the consistency of raw liver, but I am fine with it once it is cooked. So I do not make my own (and my family refuses to eat liver) but get it at restaurants on occasion. I like liverwurst/braunschweiger but only upon first opening it. After it has been opened I have some kind of pathological disgust toward it. Only one of my daughters eats it, so a lot goes to waste. Wonder if I can find smaller packages?!