Sodium, Blood Pressure, and the Russian Nephrologist
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auntstephie321 wrote: »Lol now I'm more confused. If I have low normal blood pressure will lc make it lower? Do I need more sodium to bring it higher or less sodium?
I'd say try a standard low carb diet and see what it does for you. It may not affect it, or it may even bring it up a little. You hear more about its reducing effects, because most people are on the higher end for blood pressure and when you're low-normal, no one really talks about it.
A lot of these alternative diets often have effects that are better described as "normalizing," or "correcting," not blindly "increasing" or "decreasing." This is largely due to removing the elements in one's diet that are causing disorder in the body and letting the body correct itself.0 -
Blimey! Let us know how you get on with the higher salt (if you do go for that) and your bromance with the nephrologist
seriously it seems as though everything we have been told is wrong about nutrition. 0 -
Interesting post! I seriously salt as much as I can physically handle...until shuddering. I try have kimchi most days, sometime I eat a whole bag of 500g in one sitting...
I'll give you my recipe
Re HR variability. I listened to that podcast on Mark's daily apple on the topic. It struck me that variability not only detects overtraining, but possibly also an instrument for heart disease. Since it reveals ANY overstressing by body and mind. It could be valuable tool for people who are not aware how much they overstimulate amygdala fight or flight response. Just beware that as we increasingly get «measuring metrics», looking too blindly at single numbers without a meaningful body of data, can be misleading. So keep cool.
Keep us posted on the bro-mance!0 -
What does hr variability mean1
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Dan the Man
Sorry too new to Groups. I don't know how to take your quote and respond to it directly. Hope this helps: I use Apple Cider Vinger Organic and Unfiltered. I have never heard of anyone using white vinegar.
Eileen0 -
Oops. I haven't heard of the use of wine vinegar, but you do ask a good question as to why it works. It acts as a blood thinner.0
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Does hr variability have something to do with changes in Heart Rate? (But I thought we were discussing blood pressure)0
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In terms of non-pharmacological intervention, blood pressure lowering by lifestyle modification goes in this order of effect: Weight loss > DASH diet about = Exercise > Dietary salt restriction about = EtOH restriction (less than 2 servings/day for men, less than 1 for women).
It's not that nutrition info is misinforming, but rather it is more complicated than it seems. EtOH for instance, lowers blood pressure in small doses but raises BP in high doses. The dose differentiates poison from potion0 -
I love the taste of good salt, I don't even usually waste it on my food but grind it into the palm of my hand a few times a day and lick it off/crunch the crystals. Of course it's Fleur de Sel, or Pink Himalayan, or Sicilian Sea Salt.
If you think you are craving potato or tortilla chips give it a try. Don't use the crap salt that's sold by the huge box in the stores. You WILL taste the difference.0 -
I just opened my first jar of kimchi today. It started bubbling when I opened it. OMG! It's alive! Then I noticed the jar label said something like "Stay calm. The bubbles are due to fermentation. Just open the damn jar over the sink and relax." Whew!
I think I am over the shock of the initial visit with the Russian nephrologist, and I'm starting to read. He opens one of his presentations with a quote:
“The greatest danger to a man with high blood pressure lies in its discovery, because then some fool is certain to try to reduce it”. Hay BMJ 1931;2:43-7
The bromance is still on! 1 -
Love the quote @wabmester! Too many freak over the blood pressure when it should just be left alone in some cases. Prescribing of all of the medications has led to worsening symptoms for the patients, imo. The rollercoaster ride of the blood pressure being up and down over time is more stressful for the patient. Usually, upon diagnosis, the patient is asymptomatic anyway. Not that some don't become symptomatic in time, I just feel that immediately prescribing meds isn't proper treatment. I believe it bears watching, taking pressures at different times of the day throughout a month to see fluctuations. One reading in a doctor's office once, or twice, a year isn't enough for proper diagnosis imo. More data helps your physician help you.0
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Yep, JNC8 guidelines actually changed target BP goals for elderly to reflect the J-shape phenomenon. BP control is supposedly most import to control during mid-life as far as mortality goes...40-50yo. Too much orthostasis with these elderly on like 5 different classes of BP meds0
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I believe it bears watching, taking pressures at different times of the day throughout a month to see fluctuations. One reading in a doctor's office once, or twice, a year isn't enough for proper diagnosis imo. More data helps your physician help you.
He loves data. I gave him about 6 months worth of home-collected data. Not just different times of day, but also associations with weight loss, exercise, and other factors.
One of the reasons he says not to worry much about high BP is because of the lack of causality. Yes, there's correlation. But take stroke, for example. Most of it is due to ischemia. How could high BP lead to ischemia?
Variability is more of a concern because he can see both a correlation with events and a mechanism of action.
So the proposed experiment is to increase sodium and measure BP for a few weeks. Daily at the same time, first thing in the morning. High morning BP is the biggest risk factor.
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This is so cool, love this story !0
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My SO's has high blood pressure, in his 20s his Dr put him on 2 different meds for it. I always questioned that because his grandmother also has high bp, she's 84 never goes to the Dr and doesn't take any meds for anything except one aspirin a day. She got pneumonia a couple years ago and was hospitalized, she had to see the Dr then and they tried to force her to take meds for her bp. She did while she was there then stopped again when she got home, her Dr actually yelled at her for not taking it.
It's crazy for my SO they only focus on the family history of those with high bp that also had strokes or heart disease, they pay no mind to the others with high bp that have lived long healthy lives.
He's now down to just one bp med and they lowered his dose so at least they are getting somewhere.0 -
Well it was a high BP reading (just one, I didn't dare get another, so may have not been a real problem at all) at a workplace healthcheck that made me start thinking seriously about the effects of my obesity on my health. It may have all been fine, but rightly or wrongly it, and a few other problems, gave me a wake up call and brought me to ketogenic diet. 40lbs later, I do feel much healthier.
I have to say that learning so much more about nutrition and how the advice we get is wrong, it does make me much more willing to question almost anything that we are "told" about our health and the necessary prerequirements for good health. Unfortunately, unlike @wabmester I have no mental tools/scientific knowledge for thinking about it constructively, just advice from others, research on the web (where there's a lot of chaff you need to wade through to get through to the wheat of good advice - that' s not the best metaphor for LCHF board, is it?!?!?), etc.0 -
By the way, I loved this thread so much that I added it to the launch pad sticky. 0
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I don't have much of an update yet. I wanted to postpone any radical diet changes until I completed a metabolic analysis for my kidney stone -- that should happen this month.
I did try to clarify if he really wanted me to ramp up to 20g of sodium, so I talked to his nurse, and we both agreed that he must have said 20g of SALT (which is like 8g/d of sodium).
Last week, I did try to increase my salt intake a bit. I added some kimchi and ate a couple pickles a day.
Too soon to tell for sure, but my BP was normal for the few days I checked. And even in a hospital setting, where my BP always takes off, they recorded me at 114/77 mmHg. Perfectly normal.0 -
Interesting experiment going on. I look forward to hearing future developments!1
