Keto Adapted

NewSue52

How do you know that you are keto adapted. Is it just a matter of time or is there some marker that you can test? I haven't found anything on line that explains how you know that the adaptation has taken place

wabmester

It's very ambiguous, and there's no single marker. Most of the important stuff happens in a matter of days. Uric acid levels seem to take longer, maybe a couple months.

The cool stuff, like increased fat utilization during exercise, requires exercise. You can determine fat utilization by measuring O2 consumption vs CO2 exhalation.

wabmester

Bumping in the hope that I may have missed something. My own experience is that exercise recovery was quicker and that I didn't seem to need to breathe as hard when I ran. But I don't know how much of that was due to simple exercise adaptation.

To give you an idea of how subtle the adaptations are, by day 3, 90% of your energy comes from fat. By the time you're fully adapted, that may go to 94%.

asyroyez

Kind of curious about this as well since I'd help if it wasn't so wishy-washy. My eating isn't always perfectly below 20g carb per day either, so it'd be nice to know when I'm close to ketosis vs in it. I shoot for around 20g usually, but sometimes it just seems absurdly low amount. Maybe because I'm just starting, or maybe because I'll naturally gravitate to a bit higher. Either way knowing where that line is would be awesome.

wabmester

20g carbs is a reasonable goal to shoot for, but you don't need it that low for ketosis. The brain is the biggest consumer of glucose -- normally on the order of 150g/day. Restricting below that level (150g) is guaranteed to make ketones.

Even once adapted, the brain still consumes about 40g of glucose per day. You can get about half of that from the glycerol that comes from fat burning.

That leaves 20g. And that's where the 20g carb thing comes from. If you restrict below that, the glucose has to come from the breakdown of protein. The brain will meet its needs no matter what you eat or don't eat.

So, no need to test. No need to adapt. Just restrict below 150g and you'll make ketones. Restrict to about 20g if you want to maximize ketone production. At some point, you might ask yourself why you'd want to do that.

asyroyez

@wabmester trust me I am asking myself that NOW. It's good to know that the 20g thing is the very bottom, instead of "the goal" as I have thought. Apart from a disaster I always stay under 100g easily (IF makes that easy) and always below 150g for sure. So... party party.

nicintime

wabmester wrote: »

At some point, you might ask yourself why you'd want to do that.

Because we love ketones and they are our friend on many many levels!!

I appreciate your experience Mr. Wabmester, but there would be a serious difference in me between 100 to 150 carbs a day and 20.

They are NOT the same in outcomes in my body - the most important test of all.

wabmester

I lost most of my weight restricting to around 100g. That was sufficient for the appetite suppression effects for ME.

I understand that the psychological aspects are different for different people, but the physiological effects are pretty much the same for everybody.

There actually may be a good reason to restrict carbs to around 20g and maximize ketone production. By doing that, you're maximizing glycerol availability from fat. The higher the glycerol, the less protein needed for gluconeogenesis.

So, in terms of protein sparing effects, 100g may be worse than 20g carbs.

lodro

I don't know about any "objective" markers but I do notice a difference in the long distance cycling that I do. That now is completely different from how i used to operate, with carb gel packs and frequent stops to refuel with loads of carbohydrate. Now I just get on the bike, hydrate well and I keep cycling. I do take MCT oil with me, for quick spoonfuls along the way, or I will get big deficits in calories. And I'll snack on almonds, but that's all. I do have the feeling I can go on forever and I feel much more efficient and in charge.

nicintime

wabmester wrote: »

I lost most of my weight restricting to around 100g. That was sufficient for the appetite suppression effects for ME.

I could only wish.... sigh.... Glad it worked for you!

fastforlife1

wabmester wrote: »

20g carbs is a reasonable goal to shoot for, but you don't need it that low for ketosis. The brain is the biggest consumer of glucose -- normally on the order of 150g/day. Restricting below that level (150g) is guaranteed to make ketones.

Even once adapted, the brain still consumes about 40g of glucose per day. You can get about half of that from the glycerol that comes from fat burning.

That leaves 20g. And that's where the 20g carb thing comes from. If you restrict below that, the glucose has to come from the breakdown of protein. The brain will meet its needs no matter what you eat or don't eat.

So, no need to test. No need to adapt. Just restrict below 150g and you'll make ketones. Restrict to about 20g if you want to maximize ketone production. At some point, you might ask yourself why you'd want to do that.

I have been wondering about this because Gary Taubes says that most people are burning ketones when we sleep from the excess carbs eaten during the day. Is ketones just a fancy name for fat? Do you have a source for your info? (Not because I don't believe you, but because I want to read more.)

I've been eating about 60 grams of carbs a day for 4 weeks (down from 130) & 1700 calories. Even though I have my macros set at 10% I am almost always at 15% carbs. Sometimes I have the "signs" of ketosis (headaches, muscle cramps, feeling high and energetic or barely able to walk up a hill at other times, and stinky pee) and sometimes I feel just normal - but a little less hungry.

I've been losing weight at both 130 gr carbs and 60 gr carbs with calorie counting & exercise - just slower than I'd like.

wabmester

Ketones are produced in the liver by partially oxidizing fat. Burning ketones for fuel isn't the same as burning fat for fuel. Ketones are smaller than fat molecules, and that allows them to get through the blood brain barrier and feed the brain as an alternative to glucose.

I think the best book on this stuff is Phinney and Volek's Art and Science, but even they don't go into a ton of detail.

The absolutely best sources for how this stuff works is from research done in the 1960's and 1970's on starvation. George Cahill wrote a famous study called Starvation in Man. The details in some of those papers are really remarkable, and the studies were beautifully done, but they probably wouldn't be allowed for ethical reasons today.