Back at it again!

beastmode_kitty

Hey all! I've been off and on this forum for awhile, still trying to figure out why I'm stalling so bad.

So here's where I'm at:

I've been around 160 pounds for months now, and have lost next to no inches. My current activity level is I lift weights 4 times a week, and I do cardio 4-5 days a week with 2 of those days being at least HIIT either on the treadmill or on the elliptical.

After speaking with a friend who is a registered dietitian she told me that eating 1600-1700 calories a day is far too few for the level of activity that I am at. She pegged me to eat around 2200 or so.

So I calculated on scooby to have a 15% calorie reduction and 3-5 hrs a week of moderate exercise (I do about an hour a day, give or take), which gives me approximately 1900 calories to eat a day.

So I'm starting this again and 160 pounds with the goal to lose fat and inches. Last week I still had gains eating around 1700 calories, but I was very exhausted throughout the day, so I am looking forward to eating more and staying more focused and being more energized throughout the day!

I'm just worried that if I see a significant increase on the scale, that I may want to revert back to eating less calories. Hopefully I can get through the mental aspect of it and just keep pushing through, trusting the process.

heybales

You only list exercise - are you a sedentary couch potato outside exercise for work and home life?

Regarding exercise - if you are really attempting true HIIT on the recovery days of the lifting - I sure hope you aren't killing the repair process of a potentially good workout by using the same muscles.
That's nothing but stress to the body, unrecovered exercise, and will lead to the next workout not being that great. Especially if the lifting with same muscles occurs day after HIIT using them.
Which easily leads to rather mediocre workouts in general.

Is all that exercise and the types because you think it's needed for weight loss?


Also - suggest you increase slowly, and all the way to a better estimated TDEE.
If you haven't been losing eating 1600-1700 - guess what your current real actual suppressed TDEE is?

Are you accurate on that food logging - weighing all foods and math on serving sizes and such?
If so, that is your TDEE right now.

So that means you need to unstress your body, and that routine I don't think is going to be helping it a bit.

Might use this for better TDEE estimate.
Just TDEE please, better than 5 level TDEE charts.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing

beastmode_kitty

heybales wrote: »

You only list exercise - are you a sedentary couch potato outside exercise for work and home life?

Regarding exercise - if you are really attempting true HIIT on the recovery days of the lifting - I sure hope you aren't killing the repair process of a potentially good workout by using the same muscles.
That's nothing but stress to the body, unrecovered exercise, and will lead to the next workout not being that great. Especially if the lifting with same muscles occurs day after HIIT using them.
Which easily leads to rather mediocre workouts in general.

Is all that exercise and the types because you think it's needed for weight loss?


Also - suggest you increase slowly, and all the way to a better estimated TDEE.
If you haven't been losing eating 1600-1700 - guess what your current real actual suppressed TDEE is?

Are you accurate on that food logging - weighing all foods and math on serving sizes and such?
If so, that is your TDEE right now.

So that means you need to unstress your body, and that routine I don't think is going to be helping it a bit.

Might use this for better TDEE estimate.
Just TDEE please, better than 5 level TDEE charts.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing

I do HIIT outside of lifting, and I do steady state on days of lifting. OUtside of working out I have a sedentary job, and when I'm home I don't do a lot either.

I do weigh and measure all my food as best as I can.

heybales

I understood HIIT was outside of lifting, which is actually the worst time for it.

True HIIT, done properly, is as close to lifting as you can get while doing cardio - which means it requires the same sort of repair during rest for recovery as lifting does for the muscles used.

Therefore - if you lift with legs on Tue and do HIIT running on Wed and lifting with legs on Thu - you've ruined 3 workouts.

If you even got a good workout on Tue, you killed the repair process that takes 24-36 hrs by putting another extreme load on the same muscles. Would you squat every day thinking you'd advance or benefit much?

The attempt at HIIT on Wed would leave the body still trying to recover on Thu, and if you attempted a good lifting workout with legs - you wouldn't get it, because muscles are still fatigued and unrecovered, especially now after 2 prior days in a row.

Keep doing that sort of routine and your workouts won't have nearly the benefit they could, basically wasting a big part of all the hard effort put in to them.

Exercise tears the body down if done properly.
Rest for recovery and repair allows it to be built back up, stronger if diet allows.

I'm betting you are doing the HIIT that often and along with lifting because you read it was better for fat loss compared to straight cardio for equal time.

It can be, but if willing to lift, just get the best straight benefits of lifting and skip the HIIT.

If you just like the feeling of intervals, then do them after the lifting with whatever energy you got left - it won't be HIIT - but it'll feel like it.

And that's the problem with these types of workout routines - they feel like they must be good because of how hard they feel while doing it. But doing something fatigued and unrecovered, while still giving it your all - is no where near the same response as giving it your all on fresh muscles.

It would be like running a hard 6 miles as fast as you can - and then go do squats and thinking you are actually benefiting from the lifting for the normal purpose of increasing strength and gaining muscle.

beastmode_kitty

Lifting I do upper body on mondays, lower body on tuesdays, HIIT on wednesdays, upper body thursday and lower body friday. I do steady state no longer than 20 mins on mondays, tuesdays, thursdays and fridays. Then I try to get in one HIIT on Sundays if possible.

heybales

So if HIIT on Wed is using same muscles as lower body lifting on Tue - you are killing the repair process by putting another heavy load on the muscles - just so you know.
And you are unlikely to be hitting the high intensity part of the HIIT as high as you could with muscles that weren't trying to recover from prior day. Which means you really aren't getting out of the HIIT what it's potential is.

You might get away with it with early morning Tue lifting, and late Wed HIIT.
That's just means at least 1 good day of just plain ole stress on the body - but not the good kind.

Rest of it looks like good separation.

I'd suggest if you just feel the need for that HIIT session, do it right after the lifting with whatever you got, even though it can't be true HIIT either.
If you need some comments from others like Eric Helms or Schoenfeld as backup - I'll find their video discussions of it. Or any number of other sites that discuss this principle of adequate recovery to allow good repair and workouts, especially while in a deficit.

beastmode_kitty

heybales wrote: »

So if HIIT on Wed is using same muscles as lower body lifting on Tue - you are killing the repair process by putting another heavy load on the muscles - just so you know.
And you are unlikely to be hitting the high intensity part of the HIIT as high as you could with muscles that weren't trying to recover from prior day. Which means you really aren't getting out of the HIIT what it's potential is.

You might get away with it with early morning Tue lifting, and late Wed HIIT.
That's just means at least 1 good day of just plain ole stress on the body - but not the good kind.

Rest of it looks like good separation.

I'd suggest if you just feel the need for that HIIT session, do it right after the lifting with whatever you got, even though it can't be true HIIT either.
If you need some comments from others like Eric Helms or Schoenfeld as backup - I'll find their video discussions of it. Or any number of other sites that discuss this principle of adequate recovery to allow good repair and workouts, especially while in a deficit.

I work at night, so thats why all my workouts are done in the morning. If I follow the schedule, when do you recommend doing HIIT if I cant do it at night?

heybales

Since HIIT was found many many years ago (before the current fad) to be the program to use for cardio
based athletes to increase muscle needed for their sport - but only doing cardio no weights - are you sure you really need to do it?

I'm betting you've read somewhere it increased fat burn for recovery. Compared to cardio, sure, 14% compared to 7%. Not that huge.

But if you have the time, skip the HIIT and just do actual lifting.
Are you within 1st year of lifting - then 3 x weekly each muscle is going to be better option to see best improvements.
That would allow repeating your upper/lower split 3 x weekly, no HIIT at all needed.

Do you actually have a cardio sport you do that needs that type of training?
Or is it purely because you heard it burns fat better than regular cardio? (again, because it's closer to lifting)
It also burns less calories in total than regular sustained cardio. Same way lifting does too.

The HIIT on Sundays is only time, legs get to recover doing an upper body workout on Monday, and I'm guessing lower aerobic that can be easy level or repair.

But I'd still suggest your upper/lower split 3 x weekly - because you need volume if under 1 yr of serious lifting.

beastmode_kitty

Ok, I can do HIIT just on Sundays. I just like it for the pure sport of it. I like how it gives me an adrenaline rush afterwards in just a short amount of time

heybales

You'll get exactly the same feeling attempting intervals right after leg lifting day. And talk about mental stamina being willing to push for all you got.

Hill sprints will do the same thing if you have a few repeating short hills around.
Nothing like flying up in the air at the top of a hill because of going full speed. Well, physically that doesn't happen, but it sure feels like it sometimes.

beastmode_kitty

heybales wrote: »

You'll get exactly the same feeling attempting intervals right after leg lifting day. And talk about mental stamina being willing to push for all you got.

Hill sprints will do the same thing if you have a few repeating short hills around.
Nothing like flying up in the air at the top of a hill because of going full speed. Well, physically that doesn't happen, but it sure feels like it sometimes.

Unfortunately I don;t have hills like that here. I live on prairie land, and its pretty flat LOL

heybales

Ya, I'm in literally flatter than a pancake KS. But my end of the state is the extreme, so I got short hills around most the creeks cutting through the limestone going to the rivers.

beastmode_kitty

Do you experience a little bit of a gain on the scale when you first start eating more? Ive noticed a couple pound gain but my pants dont feel any tighter.

retirehappy

Yes, not uncommon, but if the lbs. are fast, it is mostly your body replenishing water etc. Two lbs. of fat would take a lot longer to gain. It is water mostly.

beastmode_kitty

retirehappy wrote: »

Yes, not uncommon, but if the lbs. are fast, it is mostly your body replenishing water etc. Two lbs. of fat would take a lot longer to gain. It is water mostly.

I guess after time it levels off and drops maybe? I'm looking more for fat loss and inches lost than pounds gone off the scale.

heybales

When in a diet your body stores less than possible glucose in the muscle. That stores with water.

When that is gained back in maintenance it stays, it doesn't drop again until you go in to a diet again.

This is the glucose stores your body wants based on the workouts you ask it to do.
It is increased LBM and metabolism.

It's one reason your metabolism slows as soon as you diet, not much, but some.

wannabf1t

I have gained three lbs since increasing calories in the beginning of August. It has really leveled off over the last few weeks. I still fluctuate a couple of pounds up or down but weight is pretty stable mid week. Also, my weight gain was gradual. I feel the same in my clothes and measurements are still the same.

beastmode_kitty

Since upping my calories I've noticed my appetite increasing, and I want to eat more food. Not sure if this is a side effect or not, so I'm trying to drink more water and/or tea to try and combat it.

retirehappy

beastmode_kitty wrote: »

retirehappy wrote: »

Yes, not uncommon, but if the lbs. are fast, it is mostly your body replenishing water etc. Two lbs. of fat would take a lot longer to gain. It is water mostly.

I guess after time it levels off and drops maybe? I'm looking more for fat loss and inches lost than pounds gone off the scale.

I have lost @10 inches all over but 3 on my waist and that is usually the last spot to let go of stored fat. So the scale not going down has not freaked me out (much:) ). Began reset first week of June, I started a small cut in Sept. while I am still not down to a lower weight, the weight I put on is coming off VERY slowly. I am older, do walking for aerobic activity, do body flex 2x a week, and work out with dumbbells. I know I am not as active as a 30something would be, so I am fine with this. My clothes have gone down two sizes as well during this period.

There is more to life than a number on a scale.

beastmode_kitty

Update: I have increased my calories now to what Scooby calculator has said which is about 2000 calories. I am finding that since increasing it sometimes I feel a bit more hungry. I read somewhere that it is a side effect when you start increasing and that it will go away.

But Im very glad I did increase it. This friday I have a measurement day at my gym, so hopefully I lost inches somewhere

heybales

Be ready to test out that estimate too.

For every person that the rough 5 levels (and probably only 2 considered for use) nails their actual TDEE correctly - scores more that are not going to be that exact number. Might look at the number for level above your guess too.

So may be hungry because body actually wants more due to good workouts - and you need to keep increasing.

Lack of gain sadly doesn't prove out current level is true, it merely means that's what your body is burning right now on average.

Just as it was at each of the prior levels getting up to 2000.
But was 1900 potential TDEE because of no gain there?
Was 1800?
Was 1600-1700?

What proved the lower level wasn't potential?