Cholesterol information needed
deasphodel
Posts: 23 Member
My mum is worried that if I'm eating keto, which I have been for about a week now, that this is going to cause my cholesterol to rise. Is that really any information I can give her or any web pages for her to read that will help her understand?
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I'm reading a book called "Cholesterol Clarity" right now that is an awesome resource! Plus, my cholesterol went down after right at five and a half months of being keto. The brainwashing is truly deeply rooted in the family members who express concern over this woe. You keep on keeping on and she will see the proof too! Good luck!0
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My trigylcerides dropped, my HDL went up, and my LDL went up (it will for most people during active weight loss). The most important ratio is trigs to HDL... There are some great links and resources in the stickied post "launch pad" at the top of this group! And the book above is another great one, too.
Most of us showing publicly our labs would be happy to send you real life info, too...
Cholesterol brings energy to your brain... you need it. If you don't eat it, your body starts making it, and that's where you run into troubles... Studies have shown there is little correlation between eating cholesterol and blood cholesterol levels! Good luck convincing your mum... Old habits and misinformation die hard!0 -
You're 22 and your Mom is worried about your cholesterol? The biggest risk factor, by far, is age.
If you want a web page, Dr Peter Attia explains is very well here:
http://eatingacademy.com/cholesterol-2/the-straight-dope-on-cholesterol-part-ix0 -
My LDL & HDL went up over my first few months of LCHF, my Total/HDL ratio remained about the same. Then by month 6, my LDL went down, and now my Total/HDL ratio is the lowest its been in over 10 years.0
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Chapter 8 of the Phinney and Volek book covers just about everything you need to know about cholesterol in all its various forms with regard to following a keto lifestyle:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Art-Science-Carbohydrate-Living/dp/0983490708
So, you can always pick up a copy of this book and give it her to read.0 -
As far as I know, cholesterol is not a risk factor for women except that those with low cholesterol are at greater risk of CAD.0
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I'll leave this here, since I got bloodwork done last week and my doctor's website has this neat tool to compare past results. I started keto January 2014. Unfortunately I didn't start requesting the lipoprotein NMR test until after I was already on keto for awhile so before that I only have the old crappy test. My HDL pre-keto doesn't show up but it was always 27 or 28. HDL has been a pain in the butt to move for me.
Some who are friends of mine may have already seen this, those that haven't, feel free to comment/analyze, relate to this discussion however you'd like
I'm 38 years old, currently weigh 270.0 -
yes, that's a great book - I really recommend itI'm reading a book called "Cholesterol Clarity" right now that is an awesome resource! Plus, my cholesterol went down after right at five and a half months of being keto. The brainwashing is truly deeply rooted in the family members who express concern over this woe. You keep on keeping on and she will see the proof too! Good luck!
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I'll leave this here, since I got bloodwork done last week and my doctor's website has this neat tool to compare past results. I started keto January 2014. Unfortunately I didn't start requesting the lipoprotein NMR test until after I was already on keto for awhile so before that I only have the old crappy test. My HDL pre-keto doesn't show up but it was always 27 or 28. HDL has been a pain in the butt to move for me.
Some who are friends of mine may have already seen this, those that haven't, feel free to comment/analyze, relate to this discussion however you'd like
I'm 38 years old, currently weigh 270.
Thanks so much for sharing this. I wish my healthcare providers was clued in on more than just a calculated LDL which is mostly without any predicting value when it comes to health. HDL going up and triglycerides coming down clearly shows improving health markers when on LCHF or any other way of eating. A NMR test is not an option I was told by the VA clinic but yet they wanted me to start taking statins because LDL had moved to 316 from 208 and ignore that my HDL moved from 38 to 55 and triglycerides moved down from 222 to 115. They just said my test numbers did not make sense.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Thanks so much for sharing this. I wish my healthcare providers was clued in on more than just a calculated LDL which is mostly without any predicting value when it comes to health. HDL going up and triglycerides coming down clearly shows improving health markers when on LCHF or any other way of eating. A NMR test is not an option I was told by the VA clinic but yet they wanted me to start taking statins because LDL had moved to 316 from 208 and ignore that my HDL moved from 38 to 55 and triglycerides moved down from 222 to 115. They just said my test numbers did not make sense.
Ugh, that is frustrating with the VA Clinic. Makes no sense to not cover this test to me.
On the rest, unfortunately, my doctor is mostly humoring me here. I requested this test specifically once I got on keto and started reading all of the cholesterol discussions that take place on various low carb forums. My doctor found that my insurance does cover the test, and is willing to order it. But he wants me on statins based on these results + me being a diabetic (and for awhile, I was), and offers zero help interpreting these results outside of looking at the same markers from the standard cholesterol test.
When I posted this on my wall I was mostly frustrated about the fact that my LDL Particle number is still significantly high. A couple of folks here pointed out the drop in Small LDL Number, the increase in LDL Size and the LP-IR score, but I'll be honest in that I still don't fully get how to interpret all of this, since some things are clearly improving but some are not.
In the end, I decide not to worry or to do anything different b/c of cholesterol results until I finish losing weight.
Also, congrats on the improved scores in your tests, that HDL jump is awesome to see 0 -
AFAIK, the science is still unsettled, but my understanding is that the trio of low HDL, high triglycerides, and small/dense LDL are all markers for the same thing: metabolic syndrome, which itself is a manifestation of insulin resistance.
So your results tell you that your insulin resistance is under control. You no longer have metabolic syndrome. Your risks are very much reduced. That's the good news.
It's not really known why insulin resistance is such a huge risk, but one aspect of it may be systemic inflammation.
Inflammation is not necessarily a Bad Thing. It's a normal immune system response. But inside the arteries, it can lead to plaques.
And that's where LDL particle count is a factor. LDL can penetrate the inner arterial wall. In the context of inflammation associated with IR, that can be the seed for a plaque.
So, higher LDL particle count = higher risk. And that risk is cumulative, so the older you are, the more plaque risk.
What's not known (AFAIK) is whether reducing inflammation means that high LDL is less of a risk.
What's also not known is how the stability of the plaques come into play. Some people like to get a calcium score that will tell them how many calcified plaques they have. But calcified plaques are stable plaques, and they may not be much of a risk.
Unstable plaques are the killers.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Thanks so much for sharing this. I wish my healthcare providers was clued in on more than just a calculated LDL which is mostly without any predicting value when it comes to health. HDL going up and triglycerides coming down clearly shows improving health markers when on LCHF or any other way of eating. A NMR test is not an option I was told by the VA clinic but yet they wanted me to start taking statins because LDL had moved to 316 from 208 and ignore that my HDL moved from 38 to 55 and triglycerides moved down from 222 to 115. They just said my test numbers did not make sense.
Ugh, that is frustrating with the VA Clinic. Makes no sense to not cover this test to me.
On the rest, unfortunately, my doctor is mostly humoring me here. I requested this test specifically once I got on keto and started reading all of the cholesterol discussions that take place on various low carb forums. My doctor found that my insurance does cover the test, and is willing to order it. But he wants me on statins based on these results + me being a diabetic (and for awhile, I was), and offers zero help interpreting these results outside of looking at the same markers from the standard cholesterol test.
When I posted this on my wall I was mostly frustrated about the fact that my LDL Particle number is still significantly high. A couple of folks here pointed out the drop in Small LDL Number, the increase in LDL Size and the LP-IR score, but I'll be honest in that I still don't fully get how to interpret all of this, since some things are clearly improving but some are not.
In the end, I decide not to worry or to do anything different b/c of cholesterol results until I finish losing weight.
Also, congrats on the improved scores in your tests, that HDL jump is awesome to see
So, you're improving on your own, but your doctor wants to put you on meds??? Run screaming from there, please. Remember, too, that your LDL will go up as long as you are in active weight changes. Until your weight is very stable for 6+ months, that result doesn't mean anything nearly as much as others say.0 -
AFAIK, the science is still unsettled, but my understanding is that the trio of low HDL, high triglycerides, and small/dense LDL are all markers for the same thing: metabolic syndrome, which itself is a manifestation of insulin resistance.
So your results tell you that your insulin resistance is under control. You no longer have metabolic syndrome. Your risks are very much reduced. That's the good news.
It's not really known why insulin resistance is such a huge risk, but one aspect of it may be systemic inflammation.
Inflammation is not necessarily a Bad Thing. It's a normal immune system response. But inside the arteries, it can lead to plaques.
And that's where LDL particle count is a factor. LDL can penetrate the inner arterial wall. In the context of inflammation associated with IR, that can be the seed for a plaque.
So, higher LDL particle count = higher risk. And that risk is cumulative, so the older you are, the more plaque risk.
What's not known (AFAIK) is whether reducing inflammation means that high LDL is less of a risk.
What's also not known is how the stability of the plaques come into play. Some people like to get a calcium score that will tell them how many calcified plaques they have. But calcified plaques are stable plaques, and they may not be much of a risk.
Unstable plaques are the killers.
Insulin resistance, among other things, stores foods as fats almost immediately, and generally visceral fats at that, due to the hide and seek game with insulin that results in way too much being produced. IR is also responsible for plaque (soft, detachable, etc.) build up in arteries in otherwise healthy patients who present this condition. IR affects hormone production, conversion and balance. IR can burn out your pancreas, leading patients down the hellpath that is diabetes... IR is also known to be the trigger of many other conditions with which it is generally associated, rather than the result, as previously assumed in many cases.
I could go on for a long bit, but I won't. As a sufferer of IR, this issue leaves me particularly passionate. While I may not have studies quoting all of this data, these are data segments my Endocrinologist has shared with me, combined with my own first hand experience and anecdotal evidence of other patients in his practice.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »AFAIK, the science is still unsettled, but my understanding is that the trio of low HDL, high triglycerides, and small/dense LDL are all markers for the same thing: metabolic syndrome, which itself is a manifestation of insulin resistance.
So your results tell you that your insulin resistance is under control. You no longer have metabolic syndrome. Your risks are very much reduced. That's the good news.
It's not really known why insulin resistance is such a huge risk, but one aspect of it may be systemic inflammation.
Inflammation is not necessarily a Bad Thing. It's a normal immune system response. But inside the arteries, it can lead to plaques.
And that's where LDL particle count is a factor. LDL can penetrate the inner arterial wall. In the context of inflammation associated with IR, that can be the seed for a plaque.
So, higher LDL particle count = higher risk. And that risk is cumulative, so the older you are, the more plaque risk.
What's not known (AFAIK) is whether reducing inflammation means that high LDL is less of a risk.
What's also not known is how the stability of the plaques come into play. Some people like to get a calcium score that will tell them how many calcified plaques they have. But calcified plaques are stable plaques, and they may not be much of a risk.
Unstable plaques are the killers.
Insulin resistance, among other things, stores foods as fats almost immediately, and generally visceral fats at that
Context is VERY important. Calories matter here. Total fat storage matters. And, for plaque risk, inflammation matters.
The state of adipose storage is kind of fascinating to me. One theory is that a reason for both high triglycerides and inflammation is that fat cells are too full and calories are coming in too fast to be handled "gracefully."
And that's why visceral and other ectopic fat gets stored. The inflammation may be due to dead fat cells that weren't getting sufficient blood flow (because new vascularization couldn't keep up with new fat cell demands). One of the immune system's normal functions is to clean up after cell death.
As I said, unsettled science, but still very interesting.0 -
Thanks @wabmester for the additional details, that really helps!So, you're improving on your own, but your doctor wants to put you on meds??? Run screaming from there, please. Remember, too, that your LDL will go up as long as you are in active weight changes. Until your weight is very stable for 6+ months, that result doesn't mean anything nearly as much as others say.
He doesn't want to put me on statins out of nowhere after a recent improved result. I was taking Simvastatin since about 2008 or so when I was officially diagnosed as a diabetic (I likely was diabetic as far back as 2005 but wasn't seeing any doctors then). I'm actually not even sure he realizes I just stopped taking it, I'd mentioned my concerns about statins in an appointment last year but I'm not sure I told him I'm not taking them anymore.
I have a really good working relationship with this guy and it took me a very long time to find someone I was comfortable with at all, he's helped me through a lot of other issues along the way. I might try to fish around for a great doc who totally gets everything about low carb and all of this stuff at some point, but for now I'm content with someone that I'm comfortable with who is not trying to push me away from keto and is happy with what I'm doing given my results so far.0 -
Thanks @wabmester for the additional details, that really helps!So, you're improving on your own, but your doctor wants to put you on meds??? Run screaming from there, please. Remember, too, that your LDL will go up as long as you are in active weight changes. Until your weight is very stable for 6+ months, that result doesn't mean anything nearly as much as others say.
He doesn't want to put me on statins out of nowhere after a recent improved result. I was taking Simvastatin since about 2008 or so when I was officially diagnosed as a diabetic (I likely was diabetic as far back as 2005 but wasn't seeing any doctors then). I'm actually not even sure he realizes I just stopped taking it, I'd mentioned my concerns about statins in an appointment last year but I'm not sure I told him I'm not taking them anymore.
I have a really good working relationship with this guy and it took me a very long time to find someone I was comfortable with at all, he's helped me through a lot of other issues along the way. I might try to fish around for a great doc who totally gets everything about low carb and all of this stuff at some point, but for now I'm content with someone that I'm comfortable with who is not trying to push me away from keto and is happy with what I'm doing given my results so far.
Sorry for my overreaction... I just get frustrated with docs who forget to take a step back and see the big picture sometimes. I'll let you know how I feel after Friday's appointment! LOL0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Sorry for my overreaction... I just get frustrated with docs who forget to take a step back and see the big picture sometimes. I'll let you know how I feel after Friday's appointment! LOL
No worries at all "Find a new doctor" has been my advice to folks here many many times! This is definitely something I struggle with, but I'm ok with where I'm at for now. I am sure I could find someone better suited for me, but that might involve finding 10 docs who tell me keto is killing me first, I'm not ready for that yet.
I am looking forward to hearing how your visit Friday goes, good luck!0 -
Well, I got back partial results when I had to go give them another vial of blood... HDL is up from 45 to 50. Trigs are down to 76 from 96. Total is up from 212 to 241. LDL is (calculated) at 176 or something, but the calculator made for low trigs says 159...so in the "risk" zone for now - which as we know means almost nothing independently. I'm not paying for another particle size test right now, but I'll see if the doc wants to run it... If not, we'll recheck particle size in a year, once I've lost another chunk of weight....
But I'm still in active fat loss/weight loss mode, so to me the LDL is not of much concern, as it is inaccurate. Plus when fasting (required for test), if glucose is needed, the liver will release it, but it will raise the LDL temporarily in the process. I finished dinner at 8 something that night, didn't get blood drawn until 8:45 am the next morning, so entirely possible that there was a glucose burst...0
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