The Rice Diet (94% carbs)
wabmester
Posts: 2,748 Member
I've always said that the debate rages on about low-fat vs low-carb because both sides are right. I figured it was a matter of genetics. I may have been wrong about that. Maybe a low-fat diet will work for just about anybody....
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
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And this lovely lady lost 115 pounds in 33 weeks. Her fasting blood sugar dropped from 315 mg/dL to 100 mg/dL, and her triglycerides plummeted from 516 mg/dL to a peachy keen 79 mg/dL—after eating a diet literally made of refined sugar and starch.
I haven't finished reading the entire article yet -- my mind needs a rest from being blown.
http://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
[...]
And this lovely lady lost 115 pounds in 33 weeks. Her fasting blood sugar dropped from 315 mg/dL to 100 mg/dL, and her triglycerides plummeted from 516 mg/dL to a peachy keen 79 mg/dL—after eating a diet literally made of refined sugar and starch.
I haven't finished reading the entire article yet -- my mind needs a rest from being blown.
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I have always said my low carb diet was calorie restricted and worked for those two reasons.
Lower sugar
Lower calories
It is awesome when anyone can win at losing weight
It is a rare and amazing thing that she has done.0 -
Wow, what a hugely long article.... I'm mainly wondering about the COMBINATION of high fats and high carbs. Perhaps that is the dangerous diet (and it's the SAD, let's face it) whereas the 'extreme' ends of the spectrum (low carb OR low fat) unchain that dangerous combo and the good health effects follow. Just an idea... that is what I use for my maintenance diet - one meal is 3or4:1 ratio of carbs to fats (approx.) the other is 3or4:1 fat grams to carb grams. But then again I've never had a problem with blood lipids or metabolic syndrome.0
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I think this or a similar concept was talked about here: https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience/comments/3ntjzl/denise_mingers_new_post_low_fat_high_carb_works/
And this response is probably the best summation of things like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ketoscience/comments/3ntjzl/denise_mingers_new_post_low_fat_high_carb_works/cvurtla
"If a modest reduction in carbohydrates shows nearly 100% success rate, and an obscene increase in carbohydrates shows a 50-70% success rate I know which one I would opt for."0 -
We're talking about a lifestyle change. If I had to pick between eating very low fat and very low carb for the rest of my life, I would opt for low carb instead of constant hunger and cravings.0
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Given the age of the photos, I'd like to see the ingredients of those "refined carbs". There's a heck of a big difference between rice, and rainbow bread.
Thanks for the link, it was an interesting read, and yes, I'd find a diet higher in fats (mostly plant based, in my case) than a white bread diet. blech, I'd die.0 -
@wabmester - my mind is also blown. Maybe there really are different diets for different folks.0
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That is way too long for me to read now. Does it mention calorie intake?0
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It is a long article, but it's worth it.
Calories were restricted, and that was the reason for weight loss, but the article is mostly about the health benefits. Yes, health benefits of an almost-all-sugar diet.
As Kempner pointed out, any obese patients were indeed encouraged to lose weight—but the improvements in blood sugar levels and insulin requirements occurred “both in patients who lost weight and in those who did not have a significant weight change”
She describes a few other diets that also show the benefits of restricting fat, especially saturated fat.
Her hypothesis is that there's a "swampland" zone that most people live in with moderate-fat and moderate-carb, but if you move out of swampland IN EITHER DIRECTION by restricting carbs to under, say, 50g or restricting fats to under, say, 20g, then magic happens.
The magic in the carb-restriction case is ketosis. There's no name for the fat-restriction case, but she calls it "carbosis."
Peter has a very interesting blog post on a possible mechanism:
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2015/10/protons-and-ultra-low-fat-once-more.html
He goes into the biochemistry (basically due to how mitochondial outputs can regulate insulin sensitivity), but the take-home message is that both low-carb and low-fat can improve insulin sensitivity and reduce insulin levels.
I agree with @FIT_Goat's comment and that low-carb diets are more palatable, but the potentially mind-blowing thing is on the long-term health effects.
For me, this is the key paragraph in the entire article:
But even with those shortcomings, I’ll say it loud ‘n clear: I’m impressed. The study documents true heart disease arrest, and actual reversal for some. We don’t yet have any published studies of that sort on ketogenic, low-carb, or paleolithic diets (as far as I’ve seen!). And in my old age, I’ve come to appreciate the fact that real-world outcomes (i.e., whether or not someone keels over and dies) are more valuable than intermediate risk markers (like specific blood lipid ratios). It doesn’t matter that your health looked good on paper if you still end up in the ER!
She'll follow up on this idea in part 2. 0 -
The massive muscle loss without eating protein would eventually make that diet untenable
It may sound bad, but I really don't care about fad diets and extremes.
It is a diet that would not work for me. If it works for someone else, that is great for them...
But I really don't care or have a reason to. I pay attention to my diet, my plate, my fitness.
I think it is a terrible diet plan for me!
First off.... No bacon. That is just sad.0 -
Huh, fascinating, thanks for sharing 0
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Stop the Insanity! LOL. (ref. to Susan Powter.. ugg)
I think the idea of what exactly is a low-fat diet can be misunderstood by many. Interesting, that what Americans consider low fat really isn't, compared globally. The thing with American processed foods, is that people thought they are eating "low fat" because they ate foods with labels indicating "low fat" in big bright red letters. No one paid attention to the added sugar. There's a difference between eating low fat <fill in the blank> and not eating foods that contain fat.
And sure, I lost weight just eating salads every meal, but it sux'd.0 -
It seems to back up my hypothesis/conclusion that it's not really the quality of any of the diets that create the results we nearly always see (at least in the short term), but the fact that the SAD is just that bad (potentially regardless of the food itself, but primarily the macronutrient ratio) that nearly any change will produce remarkable health improvements for at least the short term and at least for the studied health issues. She does point out the big issue from which both sides of modern research suffer -- the "low fat" (and in most cases, the "low carb") diets aren't actually "low," but only a slight reduction from normal.
There are two things that concern me with the low fat diets -- compliance and long-term nutrition.
That rice diet looks boring as hell after the novelty of doing something like adding sugar to your bowl of rice wears off. And this comes from someone who pretty much eats only meat. There's also the question of eating frequency that didn't seem addressed. Is it like SAD, where you are driven to eat every couple of hours? I'd be curious to know (without trying it for myself).
It doesn't take a scientist to know that the rice diet is anything but nutritionally sound, but for even the other low fat ones, I can't help but wonder about the fat-soluble vitamin levels and deficiencies. This is arguably the biggest downfall for the plant-only diets, particularly the more extreme ones (fruitarian, raw, etc). Without sufficient fat, A, D, E, and K can't be properly absorbed or utilized. I hope she finds information on how the true low fat populations handle this issue (I also hope she finds information on the mechanisms by which the LFHC diets improve/reverse Diabetes, since it's that counter-intuitive).0 -
I tried the rice diet before, I lost a lot of weight, but when I got tired of it...Like most of do, I blossomed right up again and more! because the rice soon turned into other sweet carbs
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Sure, no way to sustain the diet, therefore regain of weight.0
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I know it took me a life time to get into the condition of being 172kg (380lb) so it will be a lifetime of a WOE to keep it at bay. I have tried so many diets & lost a little but couldn't sustain it longer than a few weeks, and then put back on a lot more.
I am now 18weeks into LCHF ketosis & not hungry at all, and understanding it now (but made mistakes earlier). It is the longest I have been focused & can see it being a permanent WOE. I will not entertain something like a rice diet that I cannot be on in years to come as it is not sustainable.
Interesting concept but as someone said what is she like today?0 -
I've read that those with insulin resistance tend to do better at weight loss on a LCHF diet. Those who were metabolically healthy lost weight essentially whenever calories were restricted.
I think it really does depend on the body, but like @FIT_Goat pointed out, LCHF worked for all, and the other diets worked for only some. LCHF with restricted calories appears to be more of a sure thing.0 -
The article does give some follow-up stats. I know it's long, so I'll be your guide.
... from the first page of the “Rice Diet Renewal” book, which states that 43% of rice dieters had maintained their weight loss (or lost even more) six years after their stint in the program. (For comparison’s sake, an Annual Review of Nutrition paper estimates that on average, about 20% of folks who’ve lost significant weight are able to maintain that loss for at least a year.)
The main point isn't really about weight loss, though, unless you believe that low insulin is required for weight loss, as Gary Taubes tells us. If you believe Taubes, then this should mess with your mind a bit. Even weirder, he can still be right about insulin and wrong about carbs since these diets show that ultra-high carb intake can lead to low insulin.0 -
I've read that those with insulin resistance tend to do better at weight loss on a LCHF diet. Those who were metabolically healthy lost weight essentially whenever calories were restricted.
I think it really does depend on the body, but like @FIT_Goat pointed out, LCHF worked for all, and the other diets worked for only some. LCHF with restricted calories appears to be more of a sure thing.
I've read that about 20% of the populations does better on lower fat/higher carb diets. I have to say that my Japanese students are all very slim and eating a bowl of white rice 3 times a day is their main food source. However they don't eat hardly any sugar.0 -
They also likely don't eat very much fat either, a traditional (non-Indian) Asian diet is quite low in fats except for fish oils with meats being a small part of the meal - more like a garnish than the usual SAD.fastforlife1 wrote: »I've read that those with insulin resistance tend to do better at weight loss on a LCHF diet. Those who were metabolically healthy lost weight essentially whenever calories were restricted.
I think it really does depend on the body, but like @FIT_Goat pointed out, LCHF worked for all, and the other diets worked for only some. LCHF with restricted calories appears to be more of a sure thing.
I've read that about 20% of the populations does better on lower fat/higher carb diets. I have to say that my Japanese students are all very slim and eating a bowl of white rice 3 times a day is their main food source. However they don't eat hardly any sugar.
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canadjineh wrote: »
They also likely don't eat very much fat either, a traditional (non-Indian) Asian diet is quite low in fats except for fish oils with meats being a small part of the meal - more like a garnish than the usual SAD.fastforlife1 wrote: »I've read that those with insulin resistance tend to do better at weight loss on a LCHF diet. Those who were metabolically healthy lost weight essentially whenever calories were restricted.
I think it really does depend on the body, but like @FIT_Goat pointed out, LCHF worked for all, and the other diets worked for only some. LCHF with restricted calories appears to be more of a sure thing.
I've read that about 20% of the populations does better on lower fat/higher carb diets. I have to say that my Japanese students are all very slim and eating a bowl of white rice 3 times a day is their main food source. However they don't eat hardly any sugar.
Hi @fastforlife1, where do you live? Many of the Japanese high school students I see daily at my train station in Ome, Tokyo, are stopping by the 7-11 to buy white bread snacks, sweet soft drinks, ice cream and other carbage after class... Also, they have to bring their own lunches, and so don't get the dietitian-designed lunches that elementary and junior high schools provide. I'd say young people in Japan are trending to be fatter and less healthy than their counterparts were 30 years ago. Many of them stay slim by just eating less (portions smaller here overall), the "consume just 80% of your plate diet" or fasting, some even by bulimia. OTOH, they do have a more rigorous phys ed system at the schools from elementary through high school to burn off excess calories. And of course, there isn't the obesity rate here that is in the west--yet! Just saying, Japan today does not have any wonder diet that is the cure to health woes. If they still ate the way their ancestors did, they might be healthier. But I doubt they all do. Fast food is all over the place here, not just McD's, but local chains like Freshness Burger and the like are copying the western food fads.
Was it this list or a Fbook group that just posted this link recently? It is from 2013, but I think it still is pretty accurate: http://justhungry.com/whats-so-healthy-about-japanese-food
In my company cafeteria, the main dishes on offer are deep-fried tonkatsu, croquettes, and grilled fish, served with rice and a bowl of miso soup. Pastas with cream sauce. Japanese curry (stew like with a few bites of meat, tons of rice, pickled ginger as garnish). Ramen and soba at the noodle bar, with deep fried onions or prawns on top. It is hard to find a low carb offering, so I buy salad at the conbini and bring my own meats and olives for lunch.
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On the Minger post, Dr. Fung did a response on his blog: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/thoughts-on-the-kempner-rice-diet/
He is not totally convinced...0 -
Dr. Fung blog has a link to Dr Kemper which is far more interesting IMO. Lorne Greene followed a diet like the rice diet?!? Wow; talk about a walk back in time.0
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fastforlife1 wrote: »I've read that those with insulin resistance tend to do better at weight loss on a LCHF diet. Those who were metabolically healthy lost weight essentially whenever calories were restricted.
I think it really does depend on the body, but like @FIT_Goat pointed out, LCHF worked for all, and the other diets worked for only some. LCHF with restricted calories appears to be more of a sure thing.
I've read that about 20% of the populations does better on lower fat/higher carb diets. I have to say that my Japanese students are all very slim and eating a bowl of white rice 3 times a day is their main food source. However they don't eat hardly any sugar.
I wouldn't say rice is my japanese students' (or Chinese or Korean) main food source. I would say it's their "bread". i.e. where we eat bread with meals, they eat rice.0 -
The whole world is becoming more Americanized with these food chains expanding their international markets! I'm not surprised the students spend their money on carbage! The addiction begins early. Maybe they (the Japanese govt) will recognize the trend, before it becomes the epidemic that we are seeing in the U.S.!0
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On the Minger post, Dr. Fung did a response on his blog: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/thoughts-on-the-kempner-rice-diet/
He is not totally convinced...
Great blog / analysis - very effectively pokes huge holes in the study, at least as far as a plus for low fat, and explains well why this and other "crazy unsustainable " diets "work" but don't.
Thanks for posting that link!0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »Dr. Fung blog has a link to Dr Kemper which is far more interesting IMO. Lorne Greene followed a diet like the rice diet?!? Wow; talk about a walk back in time.
WOW. that is a flashback.0 -
On the Minger post, Dr. Fung did a response on his blog: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/thoughts-on-the-kempner-rice-diet/
He is not totally convinced...
Thanks for this. Very interesting!0 -
@camtosh - an elite Japanese woman's university in the Western US (not teaching there at the moment) - It is true that Westernized diets are becoming more common and sugar laden in Japan. However, rice is traditional which was my point.0
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