Finding my correct TDEE

bnowell724

Hi guys! I have recently started tracking my calories and it's really fun! I'm 5'2" and started at 125.5 lbs a few weeks ago. I do Crossfit 3 times a week(started consistently going 3x/week a month ago, although I've been a member for a year) , and have a busy restaurant job where I'm briskly walking around for several hours, 4 days a week. Based on the Scooby calculator my TDEE is around 2100. A 15% cut would be 1780 calories per day.

Based on Heybales's spreadsheet calculator my TDEE is close to 2200, and a 15% cut would be 1900.

My actual intake has fluctuated between 1700-2100 a day with most days close to 1850, although I've tightened that up recently as I'm making smarter food choices and getting used to counting calories. I've gone from 125.5 lbs to a skinny-fat-looking 122 lbs in a couple of weeks.

It was my TOM during those two weeks, so that influenced things. I think my real weight was close to 124.5 before my Tom/pre Tom hormonal fluctuations. I had spent an entire month previous to that really pigging out, like every day, and not working out at all. So i'd say I've lost around 2 or 2.5 lbs over a couple weeks of consistently counting calories and exercising regularly.

I'm wondering which calculation I should use for my TDEE - Scooby's(2100) or Heybales's(2200)? On the days I eat closer to 1780 I tend to feel a hunger sensation as I'm falling asleep. Not like I'm mentally craving food , but like my body is physically in need of fuel. Is that normal in a cutting situation? I've been looking over in the bodybuilding.com forums and they all advise that it's normal while cutting...

I've been getting more consistent at meeting my macro requirements (40% carbs, 30 protein, 30 fat). If anything I sometimes go under on carbs and over on fat. I don't always get 25 grams of fiber.

bnowell724

Huh. I just checked my calorie daily averages on mfp, and for last week they were around 1850, the week before that 2000(tom), and the week before that they were around 1700. Interesting.

bnowell724

OR for my weight /height /activity level, should I even be cutting? Should I just try for maintenence and attempt body recomp? Can I do that with crossfit 3x/week?

Thanks for any help!

And thanks for providing that comprehensive TDEE calculator Heybales!

wannabf1t

Hi you can try to recomp. I think it is possible with CF as long as you focus more on the wods that incorporate weights. I did it for 9 months and saw big improvements but decided to give weight lifting a try.
We have the same stats I just eat less because I have a desk job. I started at 122 ( maybe 124?) and eating around 2030ish. I have decreased my cals since dropping CF. i do think that I have made some muscle gains but also some fat gains. But I have been slacking a bit with the food.
I think you should definetly up the cals to what heybales worksheet says and start from there. I think it comes down to what do you feel comfortable with? I'm happy maintening at this weight but I would like to eventually cut some fat. I'm looking forward to see if I made any muscle gains in the few mo ths I've bern lifting heavier and eating at maintenance.

bnowell724

Hi! Thanks for the input-it's helpful to hear from someone with a similar body type If you don't mind, I have a few questions:

How many times a week did you do Crossfit? I have been going for a year but have not seen much progress until I started consistently going 3x/week for the last month and eating better.
What improvements did you see?
Did you lose or gain lbs at that 2030 calorie level, or was that maintenence?

This morning I weighed in at 121.6. I think that's good, right? I feel ok at this calorie level, i just don't want my metabolism to slow down too much, and if I can eat more and maintain/recomp, I'd much rather do that.

Before I started tracking, I think my daily intake was all over the place - sometimes really high, sometimes probably a little low, and my macros were definitely out of whack. I know I rarely got enough protein, and often too much fat. I didn't fuel properly for my workouts either, so they weren't very fun, which is why I didn't consistently go. I was tired all the time. Now with my current diet my energy level is consistently much better than it was, so that is a good sign, however maybe it could be even better if I shoot for a bit more calories... For some reason I'm hesitant to increase though, since I seem to be getting results.

Anyway, thanks for listening!

bnowell724

wannabf1t wrote: »

I'm happy maintening at this weight but I would like to eventually cut some fat. I'm looking forward to see if I made any muscle gains in the few mo ths I've bern lifting heavier and eating at maintenance.

That's something I'm interested in: can someone at our weight/height eat at maintenence and build muscle, if they are at a relatively low weight but feel they have some fat to lose? Does it work like that?

wannabf1t

I will send you a private message in a bit.

bnowell724

My sleeping patterns have been disrupted due to hunger a few times now, and I've been hitting my macros pretty consistently. I will up my calorie intake to around 1900. But now what about my macro amounts? Do I keep them at 40% carbs, 30% protein, 30% fat? That would put me at 145 grams of protein per day. Don't we only need 1 gram per lb of body weight? If I go down to 121 grams of protein per day, what do I set carbs and fat at?

Thanks for any help!

heybales

Several studies have shown that max protein that is actually of benefit to the body is 0.82 g / lb of body weight, and that is outlier stats for max.

Above that is just wasted protein as it's converted to glucose anyway. So if it doesn't hurt your liver or pocket book, and you need help feeling full by eating more protein, then you can eat more.
But no benefit to helping to retain muscle mass in a diet at that point.

Keep fat at least at 0.35 g / lb of BW, carbs the rest.

So in essence - memorize a protein gram goal, fat probably not an issue, carbs where they fall to hit calorie goal.

bnowell724

Okay, wow! My fat is set at 30%, so around 64 grams. Is that too much? .35 grams per pound would be close to 40 grams.

Thanks Heybales, you're so helpful!

bnowell724

I upped my calories to around 1900 yesterday and I still woke up way early this morning, after only 6 hours of sleep! I'm not really hungry, just wide awake. This is so strange.

heybales

When protein is high enough, too much fat isn't an issue, if you don't need the carbs for intense workouts.
Basically you don't want too much fat to rob you of calories that should be used elsewhere.
But when eating enough - that's generally not an issue anyway - so much more range to adjust there.
When in deficit it won't be as wide a range.
But for now - enjoy the freedom - just don't enjoy it too much. ;-)

Your body may be doing just fine on that much sleep and better recovery with more food.

bnowell724

Got it, I feel much clearer about things now, thank you!


... After that last post about waking up, I ended up falling back asleep for two more hours, so I guess it was a false alarm. I'm not a wakeful sleeper so that was unusual for me. I guess I'll start to see lots of fluctuations in the way my body works with this new consistent diet. I'd guess I was getting on average 40-60 grams of protein a day before this, like half as much as I eat now. I have SO much more energy now. For my whole life I just thought I was a low energy person, how silly.

bnowell724

Can I please get some input?

I have been tracking for about two months. I estimated my TDEE to be somewhere between 2000 and 2200. I started closer to 2000, then re-measured it with Heybales's spreadsheet and it was around 2200. At a 15% cut, my daily intake started around 1700-1800(the first few weeks), then with the higher estimated TDEE went up to 1900 or so(most of November) . Over all that has been pretty consistent. I had a few days that went over but also some that were under. Nothing too crazy on Thanksgiving.

Before this time I did crossfit inconsistently and didn't track calories. I wasn't getting enough protein and was probably over eating a lot, lots of fat and sugar. For these two months I have consistently been going to CrossFit classes three times a week. I have a job that involves a good amount of brisk walking around (restaurant). I am 31 years old, 5'2".

Here is what my weight did:

October 6th: 124
October 13th: 125.5(around TOM)
October 20th: 125
October 28th: 121.6
November 4th: 123.1
November 13th: 121.5
November 17th: 123.8 (TOM)
November 22nd: 119.4
Today: 121.9

I have very recently, for the past week, been trying to lower my salt intake and increase my water intake. I know I was drinking well below the recommended amount of water, and was consistently over my salt allotment before this week. I also had a week recently where I was baking lots of cookies. Although I mostly for them into my calorie allowance, my sugar levels were high.

Is the lack of loss due to water weight? Or is my TDEE overestimated or what? What do you guys think?

I appreciate any advice!

bnowell724

Also, my sleeping has normalized to between 7-8 hours. I don't get an empty hunger feeling at night on 1900 calories, but I do when I'm closer to 1800. Is that feeling a sign something is wrong? It may be something that fixes itself if I get all my macros right...

Nikion901

Just an observation ... your weight is fluctuating the way mine does ... up and down within a couple or so pounds from one weigh-in to another ... and that is normal. Your weight is not an exact and stable number because sometimes you have more water, food, BM in your system than at other times. What you want to see is a downward trend over time. Looking at your weigh-ins, you are coming in over 5 pounds lower on your lowest than you were 6 weeks before. How do your clothes fit now compared to then? ... or better yet, what are your measurements now compared to then?

The swings could also be happening because you do have ups and downs in your caloric input ... I think the only way you can have the same amount each day is to eat the same things in the same portions every day ... and wouldn't that be a bore! And ... watch that salt!

heybales

Just keep in mind that the difference of 100 calories daily would mean it would take 35 days for 1 lb of fat to be burned.
If eating over by 100, it would be less than that. If strength training, not even fat as that would be super minor surplus that body would add as muscle if good program being done.

But you are going down.

Also, I just realized - is this the Just my TDEE calc, or the bigger Weight Loss spreadsheet?

Because on Just my TDEE one, figuring in daily activity is easier though more general.
But the Weight Loss one which is more detailed, you have to get good data entered - like those daily walking hours done in a week.

Curious which one you used?

And Crossfit would be combo of weights and high cardio for either sheet, if you do the whole program where usually there is some straight lifting time.

bnowell724

Thanks guys.

Nikion901 wrote: »

Just an observation ... your weight is fluctuating the way mine does ... up and down within a couple or so pounds from one weigh-in to another ... and that is normal. Your weight is not an exact and stable number because sometimes you have more water, food, BM in your system than at other times. What you want to see is a downward trend over time. Looking at your weigh-ins, you are coming in over 5 pounds lower on your lowest than you were 6 weeks before. How do your clothes fit now compared to then? ... or better yet, what are your measurements now compared to then?

The swings could also be happening because you do have ups and downs in your caloric input ... I think the only way you can have the same amount each day is to eat the same things in the same portions every day ... and wouldn't that be a bore! And ... watch that salt!

This is some very good common sense advice. I've never taken my measurements but I guess I'll have to if I want to gauge fat loss more accurately. My clothes definitely fit better. I have a fitted pea coat that is less snug in the shoulders than it used to be. This is interesting because I'm naturally broad shouldered and I strength train. I've also noticed less back spill over when wearing a bra... Maybe my back/upper body is where I lose fat first?

I'm just wondering if the loss I've seen so far is actual fat or if it's possible is just water weight?

I will continue to keep an eye on my salt intake:)

heybales wrote: »

Just keep in mind that the difference of 100 calories daily would mean it would take 35 days for 1 lb of fat to be burned.
If eating over by 100, it would be less than that. If strength training, not even fat as that would be super minor surplus that body would add as muscle if good program being done.

But you are going down.

Also, I just realized - is this the Just my TDEE calc, or the bigger Weight Loss spreadsheet?

Because on Just my TDEE one, figuring in daily activity is easier though more general.
But the Weight Loss one which is more detailed, you have to get good data entered - like those daily walking hours done in a week.

Curious which one you used?

And Crossfit would be combo of weights and high cardio for either sheet, if you do the whole program where usually there is some straight lifting time.

I used Just My TDEE. Where can I find the other one?

I'm wondering if I'm really eating as far below my TDEE as I assumed? If 2200 is my actual TDEE, would a 2 lb loss make sense over two months, with a 15% deficit in calories? Salt and water intake were both way out of whack during this time...

I attend structured group CrossFit classes, we do a warm up for 10 - 15 minutes, then about 30 minutes of strength (this includes 10-15 minutes going over/practicing the movements), then the WOD which is anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes. The intensity level is higher for the shorter ones I think. They utilize a periodized strength program.

heybales

I'd say stick with Just TDEE since you have active day.

If warmup on CF is like walking - I'd separate that out. 12.5 x workouts weekly.
30 min sounds right for weight lifting x weekly.
15 min x weekly for high cardio WOD I'd suggest.

So that's 3 x weekly - 38 min walking, 45 min high cardio, 90 min lifting. Then add on any other exercise you do.

The body improvements you'd be making would have water weight gain as part of response, so that will hide some fat weight being lost.
But not the inches - because the water weight gain is spread throughout all the muscles you use - the fat loss is usually more specific until it moves to another spot.

If you had an unmasked fat loss of 2 lbs over 8 weeks, then the following would be true:

2 lbs x 3500 / 8 weeks / 7 days = 125 cal deficit implied.

2200 x 15% = 330 cal deficit.

But - this assumes no water weight gain from a change in exercise program.

Since that weigh-in 8 weeks ago (and I'll assume it was valid weigh-in with no known expected water weight fluctuations) - have you changed your workout program?

The other assumption here - is your body has not already been running slower because of a prior low eating level.
If you were, and body never got back up to full speed - the math is out the window.

Because there's no need chasing a crashing daily burn further in to the ground by basing that kind of math on it.

bnowell724

I've never had a problem with under eating, ha. My body goes into panic mode pretty quickly if I restrict too much. I once tried a lemonade cleanse diet and I felt like I was dying. I made it a whole week but I looked and felt terrible.

Thanks for those numbers - I will go plug them into the spreadsheet.

The CF warm up usually includes jogging or rowing, then some stretches/mobility stuff and some movements that will be in the strength/wod. Usually some squats or push ups. It usually gets my heart rate up some.

I haven't changed my exercise routine during this two month phase. I've been a member of this CrossFit gym for a year, however I went very sporadically before these last two months(October and November). During September I didn't go at all, AND I ate lots and lots of junk food all the time during that month. Way more than usual. Wasn't logging. So October and November have been very different from September, for food and exercise.

For extra exercise outside of the gym, I've been working on pushups/pull ups at home - do they count?

bnowell724

Okay, interesting. I put the new activity numbers you provided into the spreadsheet, and it's giving me a lower TDEE: 2103. My daily intake goal has been 1968.

That would make my current deficit closer to the 125 number you mentioned, which would equal 2 lbs of fat loss over two months. It's nice to see the numbers actually add up! So I guess I've been eating at a 7% deficit this whole time, not 15% like I thought.

bnowell724

As women I wonder how much our TDEE goes up during ovulation when our basal body temp increases?

heybales

There is around a 150 - 250 cal swing on BMR during the month - so literally almost an automatic diet break for a week, and then bigger deficit for a week.

TDEE would likely change that much too unless a change of activity goes along with it for other reasons.

And I wouldn't worry about some extra sets of pushups or such later.
Hour of walking on off days, sure.
Rushing around with kids, sure. On feet job along with that, oh yeah.

Too bad it wasn't a lemon cheesecake cleanse. ;-)

bnowell724

@heybales Yeah no this was the lemon water with maple syrup and cayenne diet, aka just starving yourself for a long as you can without dying.

I've been on a cheesecake diet before, when I was pregnant.

bnowell724

Question: If I add one 90 minute session per week of Bikram Yoga to my exercise regimen, how do I reflect that on the Just My TDEE spreadsheet? Anyone know?

heybales

That would be walking level calorie burn.
Probably won't change it too much on daily basis, I am curious though if you can share.

bnowell724

That's all?? It's a pretty intense work out with lots of sweating, although that is due to the heat. It feels more like a strength training session than walking though. I've seen claims online that one session can burn up to 1000 calories although that sounds ridiculous. This article is about a study that claims it's closer to 300-400 calorieshttp://www.cpr.org/news/story/why-hot-yoga-might-not-burn-many-calories-you-thought.

So say it burns 300 calories, would that be like walking still?

bnowell724

So I entered in the extra 90 minute walking and it only upped my TDEE by about 30... From 2150 to 2180.

heybales

That's why sweating, and even elevated HR - is not exactly a good indicator of how hard a workout was.
Can be - but not always.
That article points out exactly where the high estimates came from - those using HRM's - and not realizing that HR can increase from many stressful body situations that don't have any increase calorie burn going on.
I'd dare say you get into a hot and humid room and just sit and your HR will start to go up and you'll start to sweat. I sure would. But you aren't burning more.

As the article points out, it's the same METS as walking 3.5 mph - and that's exactly what that entry in the spreadsheet is using.
So you are getting 30 x 7 = 210 calorie rating for it.
So you may be smaller than the folks in the study where she gave actual calorie figures - except the girl in the picture looks smaller too. 5'2" and 125 lbs - yep, lower calorie burn.

I was wondering which unit they'd give them to wear. Some use bags that collect the breathed air for analysis later. That would have been interesting with yoga. Though I'm sure the contraption they used was anyway.

So nope, about the same calorie burn as regular yoga - just more stressful on the body so you sweat and have higher HR. Actually, the heat probably makes it less stressful for the stretches - so that's gotta be good.

bnowell724

Yeah I mostly want to add it to my routine in hopes that it will help my knee pain. I've found that I cannot run much at all outside of crossfit without causing pain for weeks. I was hoping it would add some significant calorie burn as well...

heybales

Ya, that would've been nice side benefit.

But if it allows better life and/or other workouts - well worth losing time from other stuff probably.
I know I need to more stretching.
In fact, good reminder to get my glute while sitting here - thanks.