ketogenic and EM2WL?

LauCo77

I have found EM2WL almost two years ago, and immediately felt like I had found the TRUTH! I still think so. But, it hasn't gone well. I did my reset in the spring of 2014 and gained 20lbs. Then started my cut, (2250cals) and was able to maintain on that for a while. Last Dec-Feb I had some serious stress issues that lead me to take a leave from work (I'm a teacher, major stress job) and try to regroup. Gained another 10lbs in that time period. Also, I have been dealing with many food sensitivities, bloating, joint inflammation... my naturopathic doc (ND) had me do an elimination diet this past summer, and I did feel better but still no weight loss. She also discovered my thyroid isn't working, so I'm on deseccated thyroid now. It was really hard to eat to TDEE while on an ED, but I managed. As soon as I added back grains (not wheat though) I gained another 7lbs. So my ND said she thinks I basically have to be on a ketogenic diet to have any hope for success. So I'm trying it... three weeks on strict keto *still at TDEE-15% and I have managed to lose 3lbs. 3. That's it. I could gain that back in a day if I ate an apple. Sigh.

My exercise has been dismal... so much joint inflammation I could lift for over a year. Now I am trying to get back at it, but I am struggling to find the time! 9 hours/day at work plus 5 kids at home... how do people do it?

Anyway, I don't have any specific questions, just want to know people's thoughts.

Thanks for reading,
Laura

heybales

First I'd suggest get very educated on the aspects of the purely water weight changes you are talking about, especially if you are going to artificially force changes with normal carb storage.

Second fixing firmly in mind what your goal is - weight in general or fat only loss with body transformation.

And an apple - lets see - maybe 25 g of carbs with medium one.
Lets say all stored as glucose in muscle because body is starving for that (actually it would go to liver first in reality), so attached 2.63 g of water per g of carb = 91 g of weight stored in carbs & water = 0.2 lbs - if scale is even that accurate.
Of course some water in the apple too, so unless you just maintain an unhydrated body merely to appear lower weight, nothing there.

If you really gained 3 lbs back - something else is going on.

Sounds like your body is one big ball of stress, and I'll bet whatever foods caused stressed were merely because body was already in that state.

What can stress the body varies depending on what level it's already under.

Miss sleep for several nights and eat bad and not enough and be stressed out over work or such - and now get in a group of kids carrying germs.

What are the odds you get a cold compared to if none of that stress occurred and in same group of kids?

When you did some grains back, did you keep in in snacks and meals with balanced portion of protein and fat, perhaps even eating the carbs last?
Do you recall if equal carb gram quantity of fruits or vegetables caused same issues as grains?
Or did you do a test like that. Many times people add back grains, but the quantity is way more than prior carbs was anyway - so unfair test.

But yes you can do keto with a reasonable diet - which is what it's all about. Reasonable deficit for amount to lose. That can really be accomplished with any eating program.

The problem usually is keto is supposed to make you not feel hungry so you eat less - but you can still eat too little, and since keto is somewhat of a stress on the body, that's no good.

And perhaps walking would be best workout for you right now.

And are you doing keto with higher fat macro, or attempting with higher protein - which just becomes carbs anyway when vast majority can't be used as protein?

With big family and walking - that could have you at top of Lightly Active level already, so round up estimate of TDEE and try to reach it still.

LauCo77

Thanks so much for the input, heybales, I've read lots of your posts and they are always informed and intelligent. Much appreciated.

My goal is and has always been healthy fat loss and body transformation. Just haven't managed to figure that out yet, I suppose.

I am very aware that stress is a major problem for me... I continue to work on it daily. I sleep 8-10 hours a night, although not always well, meditate daily (even if only for a few moments when I get a second or two), and work constantly on letting things go and not letting myself get overwhelmed. I've seriously looked into working less than full time but it just isn't a financially feasible right now. So yes, stress is a huge problem.

I didn't test the equal carb count of fruits/veggies against grains... When I was adding back it was a "one food at a time" thing. I haven't noticed problems with vegetables of any kind, but most fruits I'm already allergic to so can't test them. Berries I can eat no problem, that I know. Although if I have berries for, say, breakfast... I'm a sugar-craving monster all day. Even if I eat them with protein.

The keto plan I devised for myself (based loosely on what I already knew and a few common plans) is higher in fats. Moderate protein. I've had no problem hitting my TDEE most days.

I am on my feet all day, so I am easily close to my 10,000 steps without even trying most days, but I'm always struggling with whether to trade sleep for more walking/gym or not. Usually I choose not. Lol. Walking was a lot more fun before it started being so darn cold! -26C (-15F) this morning. More than just brisk!

Again, thanks for the response! I truly appreciate it.

Laura

heybales

I'd suggest trying to add a workout in and causing more stress won't be an overall benefit, but a net negative to your life. Right now.
So don't even worry about, walk when you can - that helps reserve some time you can upgrade later, but good for the mind time too if you can use it for something useful like that.

So your job is also on your feet then, besides the more active home life?
You might be Moderately Active already for rough TDEE level, or use the Just TDEE Please spreadsheet on my profile page. The daily activity section may help narrow it down better and give better TDEE estimate.

I'd suggest make protein 0.8 g per lb of body weight. Maybe at this level already. More won't help for what protein is normally used for - in your case likely just to be converted to glucose - which could be bad for keeping in keto.
Carbs whatever low gram amount you need them to be, and fat the rest of course.

Great sleep amount, but yes that is tough temps for trading sleep for walking. Per early to work building to walk around more?
If you even need to.

But really, it sounds like you have what so many try to reach - a higher level of activity daily.
You could really just throw in some body weight resistance training for 15 min daily and be done with that.
Perhaps some upper body moves to balance out what the lower body gets already.

TribalmamaEmily

Hi, i'm new to EM2WL but have been a keto-er for a couple years now. I believe these two can work together. In fact many seek a keto diet because they don't want to restrict calories. The keto-er's goal is to consume more fat and is ideal for those with high insulin levels or already experiencing PCOS or some other hormonal issue. However if you are able to consume carbs without adverse effects than by all means don't try and completely eliminate them because it really is hard to sustain this WOE and can be stressful. Instead focus on consuming high quality/nutritional carbs versus the highly processed/non-nutrient ones.

I am currently trying to add some carbs back into my diet for maintenance. I will never be able to eat the high amounts like a lot of folks, in the 200g range due to higher insulin levels and diabetes in my family history. But i can handle carbs in lower amounts and i found no adverse effects adding them slowly back in after being keto adapted for months. In fact i found that i could maintain a lower keto ratio and still have the vitality and endurance that i experienced being in ketosis. I discovered liver toxicity in my early 20's and my gall bladder was removed when i was 17. So in my case, burning fat for fuel is excellent in cleaning up my fatty liver and thus is why many experience hormonal rebalancing with a keto diet.

I can gain 10 pounds overnight. This is water weight. I can do this by eating a bagel or it happens about 36 hours after weight lifting, if i am not properly hydrated. This is all natural and really not a bad thing. I'm saying this so that you become more aware of what your gains are...if they really are "gains" after all.

Another thing i may be hearing is that your adrenals could very well be stressed and causing stalls and or gains. Going to bed at the same time every night and waking at the same time with 7 hours of good sleep can help with this. Adding high amounts of vitamin C also helps. And just to note carbs compete at the cellular level with vitamin C for access to the same metabolic pathways in the body. (reference; http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2005/pdf/2005-v20n03-p179.pdf) If your diet is high in glucose then you are going to need more vitamin C. And magnesium...I would immediately begin supplementing liquid/cal/mag and or NOW's True calm. Perhaps add in some Epsom salt baths for relaxation. Most importantly, take care of yourself!

As for exercise I feel so much better if i just do it! And i too have high daily activity. I use to enjoy running but it became too hard on my body to do multiple times a week. The recovery would take too long. Weight training/HIIT however leaves me feeling great. My guess is because it takes less time and in combination with the "pumps" triggering hormones but i'm really not sure. I do know that it is the only thing that has transformed my body. In agreement with Heybales, try throwing in 15 minutes of weights and see how you feel. Getting stronger is always a win/win.

LauCo77

Thanks to both of you. I'm going to try to add in some resistance work at home, see if that helps. It's only been 4 weeks being super strict with the keto plan, and although I was hoping to see SOME results in a month, perhaps I need to give it more time. I'm down 3lbs, which is discouraging to say the least. Other times in my life I've had better results with cutting out sugar and processed foods. But I'll keep at it.

Last three days I've been struggling with horrible heartburn. No change to my eating, so I don't know what's up with that.