Does CICO matter?
Options
Christine_72
Posts: 16,049 Member
As everyone knows there are some die hard cicophants on the forums who often put down low carbers due to some of them saying calories don't matter when you restrict your carbs.
I have read a few posts from low carbers on the general forums stating they eat more now then they did while eating a regular diet and are losing more weight... Admittedly I found it hard to get my head around this and wanted to know what your experiences have been.
I have read a few posts from low carbers on the general forums stating they eat more now then they did while eating a regular diet and are losing more weight... Admittedly I found it hard to get my head around this and wanted to know what your experiences have been.
0
Replies
-
LOL at "cicophants." Great term.
I'm still a total newbie but FWIW, when I switched to keto a few weeks ago, I changed only macros, not calories at all, and lost 8 lbs in 2.5 weeks. I haven't lost anything in the past week (I bounced back up a bit) but we'll see how things go.0 -
In my experience, CICO is valid. But, I won't use it as an excuse to stuff my face with just anything. My health concerns are greater than just losing a few pounds. I don't eat more now, but I am more satiated now. I actually eat less now, without even trying. It feels like I eat more, but I don't.0
-
It is valid in a lab setting. 100 calories in equals how many calories out? Absorption by the gut varies from person to person. Bariatric surgery is an extreme example. There are many other variables as well.0
-
yeah I can't see every person on the planet digesting and using calories in the exact same way.. we're all the same, but different.0
-
I think CI<CO is needed for weight loss, but for me I wonder if eating very LCHF raises my CO because weight loss does seem easier in this WOE.
I went from somewhere between 190 and 185 to 155 in about 3.5 months. That's a loss of 30-35lbs which I find really good because 165 is top of the BMI of normal for my height (5'8"). I wasn't that fat, and I wasn't eating at a huge deficit but I was losing at a fast clip.
For most of that time I averaged about 1500 kcal per day. I doubt I was at more than a 500kcal deficit per day, but even if I was at a 1000kcal deficit per day, that should account for 2 lbs of weight lost per week (7000 kcal = 2 lbs) but I was losing 2-3 lbs per week. Somehow I was losing more than expected.
I know eating LCHF lowers my CI, but I think I was measuring and logging my 1500 kcals pretty accurately. LCHF seems to do something very `magical`to my CO. I`m just running with it.
0 -
I'd be running with it too @nvmomketo , those are great results.
I'm 5"8 too, 150lbs trying to get to 140ish0 -
The calories do matter for me as well. Now that I'm closer to goal, I can really tell!
I was losing faster than expected in the beginning also, and of course it's slowed at this point as expected. I am averaging about 100 calories more each day than before and though I do occasionally guess, I also do quite a bit of weighing, particularly the calorie dense stuff.
I wonder also if some people think they eat more now than they did before just because they feel satisfied all day instead of hungry. It's easy to think you aren't eating much when you're hungry all day.
But anyway, I wish people wouldn't say things like that in that way. A person can't help but doubt someone claiming to be eating more than before but losing more weight. Even we have to admit that is debatable.
It can be difficult to exercise restraint in singing the praises of low carb upon achieving success unlike we've ever known before, but in our enthusiasm, I think it's important to make sure we speak carefully so that we don't create uneccessary skepticism with our declarations of keto-induced uphoric fat melting.
People already think we're crazy for not eating cake and cookies, in moderation of course (yeah right!) It's not a far leap to decide we say other crazy stuff too.
At some point, most of us thought cutting carbs this low sounded impossible and crazy... Until we did it. We were open minded enough to give it good solid try and see the difference for ourselves. I will always be grateful that I was open minded about it. So very grateful that I am not one of the people that just dismisses it as a fad or as crazy or unhealthy because of not fully understanding it.
Best thing I have ever done for my health!0 -
Very good points @Sunny_Bunny_
And no, I don't know the meaning of eating cake and cookies in "moderation". This does not come naturally to me at all
0 -
I think CICO is valid but I do think our bodies are all different and are more or less efficient at dealing with different macros. Also I found when following the CICO WOE I had to be incredibly strict about weighing and measuring my food but find with LCHF I can eyeball and estimate much more and still lose. I do think this WOE makes you less hungry and more satisfied with what you eat so you eat less naturally. I know now I can go a whole working day on a bulletproof coffee or a single egg scrambled in some butter. In the past I could eat a huge breakfast which included carbs and would be clawing at the walls by 10am for something else to eat. I struggle some days to reach my calorie quota whereas in the past I could go over by lunchtime and still be hungry.0
-
LCHF feels different, because hunger is taken out of the equation. And cravings. Hunger is a very real factor and a formidable adversary on CICO based diets that are also higher in carbs. I still restrict calories, but that's under control now that I eat LCHF. It wasn't when I tried the same with higher carbohydrates.0
-
Even if CICO varies from person to person due to differing levels of absorption, metabolism etc., it's still a valid equation.
The problem with strictly using CICO to lose weight is that it doesn't address things like nutrient density, satiety, hormone response.... I like to say that if CICO is the solution, LCHF is the method I use to get there.0 -
CICO and low carb are not exclusive. CICO by itself is not a problem and is basically valid, the problem comes when it is used and for some unfathomable reason, low carbers go into a little dance where they feel they have to explain and defend their way of eating.
Hold your head high, you don't have to explain yourself. It doesn't do any good anyway, those goading you are just there for a show, not an education.
Be proud of yourself and your progress.
And while I'm on a roll here, all hot button topics (and weight loss is certainly that) have people who have collected a bunch of answers they have saved to reply to whatever you might try to say. Pit bulls, abortion, same sex marriage, any of those discussions (on either side) have people throwing mindless replies they've collected, and they are not really trying to have a thoughtful discussion, they are preying on those trying to discuss and enjoying the beat down. Don't be fodder for a beat down, be proud of yourself and ignore those who play games.
0 -
I just looked back threw my progress of previous progress and compared them to now. It is my experience that prior diets with CICO I was eating roughly the same calories just different macros back then and loosing only 1 lb a week and I remember quitting those diets because I would get hungry and cravings. Now I'm loosing double that and don't crave anything! And I weigh everything both times so my logging is on point. So my thoughts are yes CICO matter but I feel I can eat more "fats" in calories and loose as much or more!0
-
christinev297 wrote: »Very good points @Sunny_Bunny_
And no, I don't know the meaning of eating cake and cookies in "moderation". This does not come naturally to me at all
Me neither. I won't stop until the bag of cookies is empty, or the cake is gone!
0 -
This is a very interesting long read on the "Calorie is a calorie" debate.
http://www.gnolls.org/3374/there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-calorie-to-your-body/
That said. Calories DO matter. Just not in the way some people think, or want to believe, it does. Quality/kind of those calories is important. Activity level, metabolic state, and DNA affects how food is burned and stored. Calories do matter, but they aren't the only thing that does matter.
I have to watch every bite that goes into my mouth 1lb to goal. Count every calorie. But I lose weight on more calories than "they" say I should. This formula will not be the same for another individual, even if they are a tall 36-year-old brunette of partial Sicilian ancestry.christinev297 wrote: »Very good points @Sunny_Bunny_
And no, I don't know the meaning of eating cake and cookies in "moderation". This does not come naturally to me at all
Me neither. I won't stop until the bag of cookies is empty, or the cake is gone!
That's me. DH can eat 5 cookies and stop and never touch them again. I'm a Hoover until ALL THE SWEETS are gone. Unless it's a LC dessert, which is loaded with fat, in which case I'm satisfied with one serving and can stop.0 -
I do believe in CICO and still track my calories, BUT, there are other factors that affect results. Amount of sleep, hormones, thyroid, stress, water retention, etc. all play a role. I've lived this. I know what it's like to be eating the recommended calories and still not be losing and having everyone (especially on the main forums) telling me I was doing it wrong. It's frustrating. I think it's naive to break down all the systems of the body into a simple numbers game. Just my opinion though.0
-
baconslave wrote: »This is a very interesting long read on the "Calorie is a calorie" debate.
http://www.gnolls.org/3374/there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-calorie-to-your-body/
That was a very interesting read. Thank you for sharing.
0 -
christinev297 wrote: »Very good points @Sunny_Bunny_
And no, I don't know the meaning of eating cake and cookies in "moderation". This does not come naturally to me at all
Me neither. I won't stop until the bag of cookies is empty, or the cake is gone!
This was SO me when I was a carb burner.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »Very good points @Sunny_Bunny_
And no, I don't know the meaning of eating cake and cookies in "moderation". This does not come naturally to me at all
Me neither. I won't stop until the bag of cookies is empty, or the cake is gone!
I cannot be trusted, either!0 -
We attempted to do a couple mega-threads on this topic before. Here's my side of the argument.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10093268/doesnt-counting-calories-count/p1
I am pretty anti-calorie-counting. Calories matter in the same way that oxygen matters. But, you don't need to control it.0
