Reset and can't lift because of injury

wombleval

Almost at tdee. Hurt middle back a few weeks ago lifting and finally admit I need to take a few weeks break to recover.I'm pretty close to tdee if not at it so disgusted I'm changing another variable. For the next few weeks I plan on walking the same amount of time I would have lifted. Should I reduce my calories or stay at current level to see what happens? Calorie wise Scoobys site says walking and lifting burn the same calories but I won't have the weightlifting afterburn so reckon my tdee will be less
If I wasn't resetting I'd definitely cut back but I'm afraid of affecting the reset as have taken it too slowly really and feel like at this rate i will never get to position when I can cut successfully! I was happy eating the extra all along as felt the lifting stoppede gaining fat but am concerned about these 3 weeks of rest.

heybales

Lifting traditional reps 5-15, sets 2-5, and rests 2-4 min - calorie burn in studies is about 3.5 METS, or 3.5 x resting metabolism.

For walking to burn the same, it would be about 3.3 mph level.

But very true that is during the workout time. Ain't no repair needed for walking to burn more over 24-48 hrs later.

I'd suggest lower slightly - life lesson after all, eating correctly for level of activity. Maybe 100-200 depending on daily activity level with no lifting in there.
Or walk faster and more incline and eat the same.

wombleval

Aaagh have broken bones on both arms. Right one is thumb only so can type and do basic stuff for myself. Going to cut back by 400 calories as went be able to cycle or lift for 6 weeks. My weight had stabilised at 2300 so disgusted I need to start messing with my reset. How much muscle will I lose in two months? When I start back will I be like a newbie and grow fast again? (Have been lifting progressively all compound for at least 6 months so hate seeing all that work for nothing).,, plus so afraid of eating when not lifting!!

heybales

You'll lose glucose and attached water first in the muscles - which should make them look smaller and perhaps lose some water weight too since not needed.
That should take a couple weeks.

Strength will be gradual loss also, probably take 2 weeks to start losing strength over the next 4 weeks, slowly.

May not lose any muscle mass during that 4 wks if not in deficit and enough protein.

All the hard work won't be undone. Perhaps prior 2 weeks worth is what I've seen estimated per 4 weeks non-use. Still being active with the muscles though not lifting is what is needed.
If total bed rest like coma - ya, that's faster.

So body weight the motions if possible - everything.

wombleval

Renting exercise bike and standing \walking for ten hours a day. Refuse to sit watching TV !!!! Will do bodyweight squats etc too. Hadn't thought of them. When I start back lifting I'll have to use lighter weights for a few weeks id imagine so be two months overall not lifting heavy!!! Hopefully will gain back quickly enough. Thanks!

heybales

And don't use weight loss as indicator of eating at TDEE - you should lose water weight.
Blood volume should go down too, along with that unneeded stored glucose with attached water.
Of course that all is a loss of LBM (not muscle though) and therefore metabolism, since water management is big part of metabolism.

But your plan will help using the muscles.

wombleval

I know! That's what am most worried about. Don't want to ruin my reset by eating under tdee but it's going to be impossible to know if actually gaining fat over the next few months. Bad timing. If had completed reset then I'd be alot happier about this. I miss weight lifting!!

wombleval

Heybales, how long should it take to lose the water weight from lack of lifting? It's almost 2 weeks now and I'm down 3lbs. Can I take my weight after two weeks and say I've lost all water at that stage? I will then aim to keep my weight at this level and neither gain nor lose over the next 6/7 weeks. I don't want to undershoot tdee any more than I want to overshoot it!! Apart from lifting I'm more active since I broke my arms as keeping really active (walking dogs for 2 hours and exercise bike for 1 hour every day plus standing ,moving for another 7 hours). Id stabilised at 2300 calories and was going to add an extra 100 this week to test tdee but then broke arms so instead I've cut by 300.

wombleval

Also after breaking arms, the next day I cut by 300 calories(from 2300). Only recalculated my tdee today and realised I should have continued eating 2300 minimum the past week as I've been using exercise bike alot(used haybales excel sheet and had measured rmr from v breathing test and body fat from dexa scan so actual tdee comes out at 2500). I was only eating at 2300 for a month upto accident and was still working up to my tdee really slowly.
My question is, can I go straight back to 2300 or could my body have adjusted down in a week to 2000 level and should I bring back upto 2300 over a few weeks? Or can I go back to to 2300 today( after weeks break at 2000), 2400 next week, 2500 the week after? I was really dragging my reset out, letting a month in between each increase ,but now I want to have been at tdee a few months by time my casts come off. At least I'll have accomplished something during this hiatus from lifting!!!

heybales

Body doesn't adjust that fast - head on up!

That's the problem with big jumps going up when it's already running slow, the extra is just fat gain then until body decides to speed up.

A month is too long though for such minor increases - that'll take forever.

Only minor needed is at the start from increase of really low level - which you weren't there, so doesn't apply.

The drop of extra stored carbs just depends on genetics and if your body thinks you'll need it anyway.
I've seen it take a month when I've gotten injured or my normal winter sickness.
A month of no weight change, but obvious increase in gut fat (beer-belly genetics), and then I'll start to increase weight after that. This is when I of course failed (or didn't desire) to decrease intake.

Good call wanting to get benefits of reset even if not the training you desired.

wombleval

I will push to 2400 and stay there for 8 weeks before trying a cut. Im so tempted to just cut now and try prevent weight gain but if I can hold it for 8 weeks any cut should be more successful. 7lbs to lose but only 5 ft so will make all the difference. Worst case I wont be able to lift for 6 months to a year as its a scaphoid break and notoriously hard to heal. Weight lifting was my favourite thing. Going to see if they'll operate and speed up recovery ! Keri telling myself that alot of people don't lift and theyre not totally and dramatically flabby and that won't happen to me. I was so proud of my torso which was after getting so lean. Waaaaa waaaaa waaaa (rattle out of pram reaction)

wombleval

Me again! So my measured rmr was 1598. This was after 2 rest days from lifting. Hour much night this drop after a month of not lifting, 2 months of not lifting etc. Calculated my tdee using this but should I assume my tdee has dropped by eg 50 calories after 1 month, 100 calories after 2 months based on loss or muscle etc.I know it's not an exact science but I haven't a clue. Maybe it would drop much more dramatically? I'm afraid that when it comes to my cut I'll reduce by 10% but that'll just being me to revised tdee with no loss. I'm assuming I'll have same activity over the next few monthd

heybales

So is that RMR figure appropriate for your LBM?
Meaning - unless you have something to compare it to it's just a number floating out there with no reference.

As to the number in itself - the amount it could drop totally depends on how inactive you are and actually lose muscle mass that the body doesn't need.

But keep in mind muscle by itself adds very little to the metabolism - using it adds to the daily burn though.

The water management adds more - and that's what is dropping if exercise amount goes down and body doesn't need that extra water.

There is no way you could have a clue - as it's so variable - no one could answer that

Since it's only the daily burn you are actually concerned with - your RMR in theory could plummet 200 calories say for instance - but your daily burn from increased activity could go up by 300.

That kind of swap is easily seen - usually the other direction sadly.
Someone has big workouts or long ones - wipes out time they otherwise would have been active anyway, but then becomes more lazy for rest the day. Their TDEE actually can drop or stay the same despite the exercise.
But the body is still shaped - so worth it.

Watch your weight for slow changes on valid weigh-ins, and measure wherever you know fat is added first/taken last.

wombleval

Had a dexa just before my accident and have 18.2% body fat which for my age,45, I d really pleased with my legs and arms were at almost 25% and theyre reason I'd like to lose a half stone ultimately. I get what you're saying no way to know exactly how much my rmr will reduce. It just helped me cope psychologically to do my reset as I know I was unlikely to overshoot my tdee as It was as accurate as I could get it. I'll resign myself to potential few lbs gain over the next few months and then start my cut. Re cut, any opinions on fasting for 2 days a week, staying at tdee the other 5. Would this help to maintain metabolism more than the 10% cut recommended by the em2wl group? Or even fasting for one day a week?

heybales

If your workout schedule allows that 5-2 plan to work (think about sub-standard workouts on or recovery depending on where those 25% days fall) - it is a great plan.

The study was on folks with average non-exercise lives and more than a bit to lose to healthy weight - worked great.

Just takes careful planning if you want the most from your exercise - but for now could be great then, but .....

Just use your own TDEE figures - not the average of 2000 that obviously doesn't seem to apply.

I'd suggest if BF% was that low, and if at healthy weight already - you don't need to lose weight - you need that lifting to balance out past dieting effects.

The closer you are to healthy weight - the easier it is for a deficit to indeed cause muscle mass loss, because you have a finer line between no effect and bad effect. And smaller margin of error to cross that smaller line.

wombleval

I was hoping to avoid a cut and change shape by lifting. In eating more than I've eaten since I was 15 and want to be able to eat like this for as long as I can. Interesting that it's the water management more than muscle that adds to BMR -didn't realise that. So the 3lbs water I've lost since i couldn't lift mean my rmr has slightly dropped already. I'll try avoid any cut until I'm able to lift again (maybe using weights machines and dumbbells on my left arm which will be mobile again in a month).
It kind of makes sense that 5:2 would mean the body maintains metabolism as opposed to simple cut every day. I might try doing a one day a week fast for a month when I'm back lifting and see how goes. My legs are pretty chunky so would be happier if lost fat here. Thanks so much haybales. You should be charging for all the great advice you give people here

justsayinisall

wombleval wrote: »

Thanks so much haybales. You should be charging for all the great advice you give people here

TOTALLY agree!

heybales

As I got time, it's nice to feel like all the studying and research isn't going to waste on just me.

You could still do a 25% day once per week - nothing magical about 2 x weekly, except it makes the average weekly deficit 22% and that's not as slow weight loss.
This also plays in well to the fact studies have shown the first 72hrs of an actual fast the metabolism actually increases, mainly in first 24. Takes a nose dive after that though, and tough for exercise to be included. So those 25% days benefit from that effect also.

Muscle resting metabolism is about 5.9 cal/lb/day, and that includes any carb water management. And that's muscle mass - not the bigger LBM that muscle is a part of.

The 4 biggest metabolically active organs account for 97% of the resting metabolism. Here's one such recent study. Others indicate the differences between races.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2980962/

The water management stands out for folks that do the very low carb diets.
Initial big water weight drop, and unless they went from super high sodium to super low - that water drop is mainly from less stored carbs and water.
And if they track well before/after the change - they almost always discover the weight loss is not as great as they would have thought eating the same calories as before. They could lose 200 cal off their TDEE by that change. Usually though they eat even less than prior deficit.
But usually they are taking care of other issues that low carb may help with - satiety, insulin issues, ect.
Now that's about max amount you'd likely be able to lose - 2 lbs of water weight and management of it.
Plus if you follow like the Paleo ect diets, they recommend no long cardio anymore, so now blood volume drops too since you don't need as many red blood cells for getting oxygen for aerobic fuel burning.

It's very interesting when you read what can/should happen - and then people indeed observe the same thing.

That's what I mean by your RMR isn't going to drop that much, not that you could observe it probably.

wombleval

So as im still eating plenty carbs, I can maybe assume my rmr might drop 50 or so calories but nothing too dramatic ? I'll try 6:1 in a few months and see how works for new as means of cutting slightly. Happy enough to lose a lb every 3 weeks as I don't have much to lose.

heybales

Nothing too dramatic - you are still being active which is great.

wombleval

Excellent!! So final question , my guru if you were to do a cut and wanted to preserve metabolism as much as possible , would you go for 10% cut every day (with tdee break every 6weeks) or do a 24 hour fast once a week? Or is effect on metabolism similar using both methods?