Aches and pain on keto diet
kZorel
Posts: 13 Member
I have been eating LCMPHF since January 1st and enjoying some great weight loss (and inch loss) since. However, in the last week I have been so achy and experienced pain in my hips and legs and sometimes my lower back particularly when I go to bed. So bad it wakes me up sometimes. I did start walking for an hour a day too but can't imagine this low-impact exercise could be the cause. And it's strange that it hits hard when I go to sleep. Any one else experience this? Will it go away over time?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer!
Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer!
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Replies
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I haven't ever heard about that kind of pain associated with just eating LC. But, you lose lots and lots of sodium and other electrolytes especially in the beginning, which people refer to "Keto or low carb flu". The very simple remedy for that is to make it a point to get around 5000mg minimum sodium every single day. The range is 3000-5000 ongoing, but I'd make sure to get the full 5000 for the next couple days. The only way you'll be able to do that is by drinking broth, like from bouillon or make your own and be sure to make it salty! Or by eating several pickles a day and salting all your food. You could also simply take a sodium chloride tablet you can buy at the pharmacy, each one is 1000mg. It is s good idea to supplement magnesium also. Any form that ends with "ate" like citrate, for example is most easily absorbed.
Since you're mentioning specifically joint pain, it brings to mind that with a magnesium deficiency, the body cannot properly absorb calcium and it often ends up deposited in tissue and when this happens in the joints, it causes arthritis pain. So, it's possible the electrolyte loss has created a problem absorbing calcium for you. Especially likely if you supplement or get a lot of calcium from your diet.
Also, don't drink tons of water just for the sake of drinking water. Drink all you feel like you want, of course, but high water consumption requires even more sodium to keep the balance right. So just keep that in mind.
I hope this helps.
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Thank you!0
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@kZorel welcome to MFP forums and the Keto WOE (Way Of Eating)
I started on the way of eating for pain management and forty years of high pain dropped like a rock within the first 30 days in my case.
Now I did have a lot of 'weird' stuff the first 90 days but nothing that made me feel the need to get medical attention.
Keep asking questions and others will try to help. I am turning 65 next month and my health is better than when I was 45 in my case. We are all different. Never met a person who Keto eating did not help health markers over time.
Best of success.0 -
Thanks @GaleHawkins0
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I had my autoimmune arthritis act up in the first few weeks. My body was going through a bit of a shock so I had a short flare up. It was short and hasn't come back in over half a year. Yeah!
Could it be something like that?
Muscle aches often go with imbalanced electrolytes as already stated. I would up Na, Ca, and K if you can.
Hope it goes away soon.0 -
@kZorel I'm going through the same thing. My arthritis will flare up to the point where I can barely walk up the stairs some days, whereas when I ate a SAD diet, the pain was never this extreme. This is my 3rd (and most committed) attempt at LCHF and I've had that problem every time.
I'm 40 days in, with only one day over 30-35 net carbs (under 20 most days now) and I still have the same occassional bad day (or cluster of days) with my arthritis.
Fortunately for me that is the only adverse affect I'm dealing with this time around, so I'm toughing it out by reminding myself that the arthritis will get better as I lose weight.
I realise that doesn't help you much, but I just wanted you to know that you weren't really the only one experiencing that issue.0 -
PaleoInScotland wrote: »@kZorel I'm going through the same thing. My arthritis will flare up to the point where I can barely walk up the stairs some days, whereas when I ate a SAD diet, the pain was never this extreme. This is my 3rd (and most committed) attempt at LCHF and I've had that problem every time.
I'm 40 days in, with only one day over 30-35 net carbs (under 20 most days now) and I still have the same occassional bad day (or cluster of days) with my arthritis.
Fortunately for me that is the only adverse affect I'm dealing with this time around, so I'm toughing it out by reminding myself that the arthritis will get better as I lose weight.
I realise that doesn't help you much, but I just wanted you to know that you weren't really the only one experiencing that issue.
What is your sodium intake like on average? Do you take any supplements?0 -
how much water are you getting?
with exercise, if I'm dehyrated, I tend to ache as well0 -
Thank you everyone for the great suggestions and encouragement. You all rock! I drink 4L plus water daily. I looked at my sodium levels and they could be higher as could my magnesium and potassium. I am going to get some supplements and see if that helps.0
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PaleoInScotland wrote: »@kZorel I'm going through the same thing. My arthritis will flare up to the point where I can barely walk up the stairs some days, whereas when I ate a SAD diet, the pain was never this extreme. This is my 3rd (and most committed) attempt at LCHF and I've had that problem every time.
I'm 40 days in, with only one day over 30-35 net carbs (under 20 most days now) and I still have the same occassional bad day (or cluster of days) with my arthritis.
Fortunately for me that is the only adverse affect I'm dealing with this time around, so I'm toughing it out by reminding myself that the arthritis will get better as I lose weight.
I realise that doesn't help you much, but I just wanted you to know that you weren't really the only one experiencing that issue.
Do you happen to use artificial sweeteners? I found long before keto that artificial sweeteners were a huge trigger for my arthritis to flare up. I now use stevia (which I don't react to) very, very rarely if I'm making a special dessert recipe. Otherwise no sweeteners in my coffee or tea.0 -
Hi @Sunny_Bunny_ I take 16 different prescription medications and have a blood clotting disorder among numerous other issues, so I have to be very careful with supplements. After ending up in the ER w/ my lungs bleeding from a supplement I took 10 years ago, I tend to avoid mixing prescriptions with supplements without talking to my doctor first (don't ask me what it was, I can't remember for the life of me).
I drink 5 litres (UK) of water a day (recommended for my weight on keto) and have successfully avoided the low blood pressure (which has caused me dizziness, lightheadness and headaches during previous attempts) by eliminating my diuretic pill (one of my 4 blood pressure pills). I'm happy to say that in addition to no "keto flu" this time, my blood pressure has neither gone down, nor up with this change, so that seemed to be the perfect balance for me and is likely the same fluid management affect others would have by increasing their salt.
I already take a prescribed potassium pill for my blood pressure and definitely don't want to add anymore potassium to the mix before I review my blood panel results with my doc next week, especially after I already decided to drop my diuretic. Making too many changes at once makes it difficult to assess the outcome. I plan on discussing my electrolytes with him and scheduling subsequent tests after adding in any supplements that he recommends so we can review the efficacy and ensure there are no problems.
When I consider all of the various issues this woe is affecting in a positive way, I'm happy to suffer through a few days of extra crappy arthritis & neuropathy pain, for now 0 -
PaleoInScotland wrote: »Hi @Sunny_Bunny_ I take 16 different prescription medications and have a blood clotting disorder among numerous other issues, so I have to be very careful with supplements. After ending up in the ER w/ my lungs bleeding from a supplement I took 10 years ago, I tend to avoid mixing prescriptions with supplements without talking to my doctor first (don't ask me what it was, I can't remember for the life of me).
I drink 5 litres (UK) of water a day (recommended for my weight on keto) and have successfully avoided the low blood pressure (which has caused me dizziness, lightheadness and headaches during previous attempts) by eliminating my diuretic pill (one of my 4 blood pressure pills). I'm happy to say that in addition to no "keto flu" this time, my blood pressure has neither gone down, nor up with this change, so that seemed to be the perfect balance for me and is likely the same fluid management affect others would have by increasing their salt.
I already take a prescribed potassium pill for my blood pressure and definitely don't want to add anymore potassium to the mix before I review my blood panel results with my doc next week, especially after I already decided to drop my diuretic. Making too many changes at once makes it difficult to assess the outcome. I plan on discussing my electrolytes with him and scheduling subsequent tests after adding in any supplements that he recommends so we can review the efficacy and ensure there are no problems.
When I consider all of the various issues this woe is affecting in a positive way, I'm happy to suffer through a few days of extra crappy arthritis & neuropathy pain, for now
Sounds like you're managing electrolytes well if you're not having symptoms. I wouldn't think you'd need anymore potassium if you're supplementing either.
Obviously, the joint pain can have many other causes as well as the possibility of calcium depositing.
I was mostly wondering if you took a multi vitamin or supplemented calcium because I'm curious to see how often that comes up when discussing pain like this. I have often discovered that calcium intake is higher or being supplemented when I've asked about it before. So just curious.
I would definitely ask your doctor about magnesium. I don't recall the details but I seem to remember reading that the way it's tested isn't really accurate though, so I would read about that to be prepared when you go to the doctor, and that basically everyone that doesn't eat quite a lot of leafy greens that are specifically grown in magnesium rich soil are deficient. So, there's still some possibility of some calcium deposits being a source of at least some of the pain you're describing. It especially makes sense because it's worsened with low carb eating and it's so likely to have decreased magnesium at least a little.0 -
I have been eating LCMPHF since January 1st and enjoying some great weight loss (and inch loss) since. However, in the last week I have been so achy and experienced pain in my hips and legs and sometimes my lower back particularly when I go to bed. So bad it wakes me up sometimes. I did start walking for an hour a day too but can't imagine this low-impact exercise could be the cause. And it's strange that it hits hard when I go to sleep. Any one else experience this? Will it go away over time?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer!
I started having hip and knee pain, so I went to my orthopedist. He basically told me that losing weight means our limbs lay differently when we sleep, so the pressures are different. He told me to tough it out for a few months, use some pillows for propping, and see if it went away. It did everywhere except my hips. But I have wide "birthing" hips and no thigh fat anymore to hold my legs in a better position. Now, it's a pillow.
Could this be it?0 -
I have rheumatoid arthritis (diagnosed in 2011) and for the most part, the majority of the morning joint pain is tolerable without medication for the first time in years. Another odd addition is that it seems to almost be "reversing" itself. My fingers aren't swollen in the mornings, and I've had 2 of the bony calcium deposits break off in the last week. That part kind of sucks, because it hurts like hell for a minute or two, but I have more flexion in my wrist now. I've had the one that broke most recently for at least 5 years. Another bright side is that after that deposit broke off, the carpal tunnel I was experiencing relieved itself.
I'm not saying the WOE is doing it, but kind of hard to argue that I can get out of bed without gimping to the bathroom to scarf down my meds first thing in the morning. Now the only thing I take in the morning is a multi-vitamin, that I've been taking forever and a day. I have had some knee pain, but it's not what it used to be and I have a narrowing in the joint there and had surgery on it in 2006. I've done everything to make that one feel better, including letting the doctor inject it once a week and nothing much helped. So now it will ache, but it doesn't swell up anymore and that's nice.0 -
I have been eating LCMPHF since January 1st and enjoying some great weight loss (and inch loss) since. However, in the last week I have been so achy and experienced pain in my hips and legs and sometimes my lower back particularly when I go to bed. So bad it wakes me up sometimes. I did start walking for an hour a day too but can't imagine this low-impact exercise could be the cause. And it's strange that it hits hard when I go to sleep. Any one else experience this? Will it go away over time?
Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer!
I started having hip and knee pain, so I went to my orthopedist. He basically told me that losing weight means our limbs lay differently when we sleep, so the pressures are different. He told me to tough it out for a few months, use some pillows for propping, and see if it went away. It did everywhere except my hips. But I have wide "birthing" hips and no thigh fat anymore to hold my legs in a better position. Now, it's a pillow.
Could this be it?
Well I have only lost just over 13lbs so probably not a big enough difference yet - but I have used pillows for propping my legs differently and have found that relieved it a tiny bit. I am going to tough it out but will check in with my doctor since arthritis is in our family.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I would definitely ask your doctor about magnesium. I don't recall the details but I seem to remember reading that the way it's tested isn't really accurate though, so I would read about that to be prepared when you go to the doctor, and that basically everyone that doesn't eat quite a lot of leafy greens that are specifically grown in magnesium rich soil are deficient. So, there's still some possibility of some calcium deposits being a source of at least some of the pain you're describing. It especially makes sense because it's worsened with low carb eating and it's so likely to have decreased magnesium at least a little.
Thanks for the recommendation @Sunny_Bunny_ I'll definitely make a point to address the magnesium.
@ki4eld I think you might be onto something there. I've only lost 20 lbs, not that significant when considering how much weight I need to lose. However, the fact that I'm eating way less and no longer going to bed full or with heartburn definitely impacts the position I sleep in, which may very well be causing some of my new nighttime knee and hip pains. And that would be a corresponding issue with my previous LCHF attempts.0 -
I'm wondering about the walking. You said you started walking for an hour a day, and even though this is not a high impact sport, if you had not been walking regularly before, I think it is possible to have some discomfort as your body adjusts. Walking can strain the lower back, especially once the back is irritated. Try walking after a lower back injury and you'll know what I mean.
Walking is part of my exercise regime and I can easily walk for 2 hours, probably more, but I couldn't when I first started out. I remember my feet and legs aching as soon as I tried to get to sleep. My body wasn't used to it. Magnesium citrate helps, and when my foot cramps act up, I eat avocado for the potassium and I'm fine.
You also take a lot of meds, so I'm wondering if any of them might be reacting with each other, or reacting to the change in your diet. Many of us here have experienced so many health benefits from this WOE, that we have reduced or eliminated prescriptions.
What this WOL has done for me is to listen to my body much better. Maybe you need some rest since you might not be adapted yet. Hope you feel better soon!0 -
I've had the opposite; my joint pain disappeared several weeks into keto. I had other various symptoms but not pain. That's interesting; I hope you're able to get the cause figured out and get the pain cleared up!0
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PaleoInScotland wrote: »After ending up in the ER w/ my lungs bleeding from a supplement I took 10 years ago, I tend to avoid mixing prescriptions with supplements without talking to my doctor first (don't ask me what it was, I can't remember for the life of me).
When I consider all of the various issues this woe is affecting in a positive way, I'm happy to suffer through a few days of extra crappy arthritis & neuropathy pain, for now
I'd check with my pharmacist and not my doctor... pharmacists are trained in drug and supplement information. Doctors get their drug info from the drug companies unfortunately.
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My case has been the total opposite, too. Within my first week on this WOE, ALL of the fibromyalgia pains completely disappeared. Deep aches in my hips, neck, back, shoulders...gone. Still gone 4 months later. Could it be something new in your diet? Maybe your ratios are off? Maybe a cold? Or, what about vitamins and minerals?0
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canadjineh wrote: »PaleoInScotland wrote: »After ending up in the ER w/ my lungs bleeding from a supplement I took 10 years ago, I tend to avoid mixing prescriptions with supplements without talking to my doctor first (don't ask me what it was, I can't remember for the life of me).
When I consider all of the various issues this woe is affecting in a positive way, I'm happy to suffer through a few days of extra crappy arthritis & neuropathy pain, for now
I'd check with my pharmacist and not my doctor... pharmacists are trained in drug and supplement information. Doctors get their drug info from the drug companies unfortunately.
That's a good idea too. I tend to agree that the pharmacist will be more knowledgeable about interactions.0 -
canadjineh wrote: »PaleoInScotland wrote: »After ending up in the ER w/ my lungs bleeding from a supplement I took 10 years ago, I tend to avoid mixing prescriptions with supplements without talking to my doctor first (don't ask me what it was, I can't remember for the life of me).
When I consider all of the various issues this woe is affecting in a positive way, I'm happy to suffer through a few days of extra crappy arthritis & neuropathy pain, for now
I'd check with my pharmacist and not my doctor... pharmacists are trained in drug and supplement information. Doctors get their drug info from the drug companies unfortunately.
True story there. My allergy specialist was looking at the meds I was on and had to bust out one of those pharmaceutical books (like you buy at the book store) because I said I felt poorly. Come to find out, my GP had given me something that majorly interacted with something I was already on. I've always found the pharmacists really up on what I could or couldn't have together. Sometimes, even enough to call my doctor and explain how dangerous it was and suggest something else.
That's why I always read the info sheets now while I'm waiting for them to finish up, and ask about anything I'm not sure about.0 -
My initial response to keto was an overall improvement in pain levels. As long as I stay away from artificial sweeteners and carbs I don't have any pain! I now use pickle juice for headaches!
I agree with a formal review of your medications with your pharmacist, or other medical provider. The need for many prescriptions is resolved pretty quickly with this woe in my experience! I've eliminated like ten medications so far, and looking for ways to eliminate the rest. Continuing to take them, when they aren't needed can make you feel bad too! Good luck with a resolution to your pain issues!0 -
^ That exactly. I've cut out using a bunch of allergy meds (benedryl, atarax, gastrocon, zyrtec, and some other crap I can't remember the name of) and my favorite of all to cut out, Mobic. It wasn't a conscious decision either to start cutting back on meds. Especially the mobic, I would wake up, and feel fine, so I skipped taking it to see how long it would take until I was miserable. The misery never showed up, so one day turned into 7 very quickly.
One of the better ones has been the lack of headaches. I used to have nasty cluster headaches usually in the afternoon. Other than having a "keto flu" day, I haven't had one, and drinking beef broth fixed that one. I'm no longer going to pay for someones college tuition in Excedrine!0 -
It was neat going over the list of my medicine from a year ago with the nurse yesterday! I've been able to eliminate more than I'm still taking! This woe is for so much more than weight loss! That's wonderful @AshleyC1023!0
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Well I've upped my potassium and magnesium. Not taking any meds so I imagine this is safe. I have noticed an improvement already so I'll keep this going and hope it all evens out. I know my body is still adjusting - it's only been three weeks.0
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Glad you are feeling better! Adaptation can be tough, but it's sooooo worth it!
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