Newbie - question for diabetics
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YES!!! Please heed what @KetoGirl83 said. Faster weight loss is not worth losing your vision or a dealing with a limb amputation, which maintaining glucose numbers in the 300's will lead to. And I say that as someone in the same boat as you. It's really tough to lose weight on insulin. I gained 60 lbs after starting insulin on an already overweight body. It sucks, but you are taking the right steps to reduce your dependency. And even if you can't eliminate it all together, achieving a reduction, while maintaining good blood glucose numbers will still help with the weight loss. Please hang in there. It gets better. I'm finally seeing the scale move now after 40 days. Take strength in the small successes and we'll celebrate those little milestones with you.0
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »lukesydaisy wrote: »(...)I've been taking insulin since 2013, and even though I'm only 33, I have some scary diabetes symptoms like really bad neuropathy. (...)
So, I've been doing this for....over 2 whole days now!!!! I have chosen not to take my insulin these days, since I'm worried it will drop my sugar low and I'll end up having to take in lots of carbs to stabilize. I figured I'd just gradually get it down quickly through the lack of carbs. The weird thing is that when I've tested it's been about 300 every single time, no matter if I test before or after a meal. (...)
(...)My case is similar to yours. The only advice I would give is to drop the insulin altogether, because insulin is a fat producing hormone. I did this one month into Keto. I was faithful to the 40 grams or less carbs a day. I didn't want the insulin to fight my attempts to lose weight. My BG's were a little high, but after a year or so, it steadily came down.
(...)
@DittoDan is awesome and @lukesydaisy you should definitely follow his blog. I have never disagreed with him before, and I have referred to the resources on his blog and been inspired by his success many times.
But I feel I must ask for caution in this case. To drop insulin with bad neuropathy and BG on the 300s without medical supervision can be very dangerous. The OP says that she has been "doing this" for 2 days, she is not keto adapted or even totally sure about how LC works regarding diabetes.
If she cuts grains and sugar and controls carbs, she will start losing weight without effort or risk. When the BG numbers start going down (and I mean below 200 after meals) she can then cut the quantity of insulin, little by little and always checking BG numbers. High blood glucose is much more dangerous than a slight slower weight loss.
@lukesydaisy if you're not changing your woe/medication with medical supervision and regular lab tests please, please always err on the side of caution.
Nothing will contribute to your health at this point like normal BG. LCHF will normalise your BG and your weight without risk. THEN you can drop medications. How long did it take to reach the point you're at now? You will start to feel benefits very soon, but this is science, not magic. Give it a few weeks/months.
::flowerforyou::
The trick is staying low carb, very low. Numbers 300 and lower will NOT immediately hurt you. I have had numbers higher than 400 when I wasn't controlling my sugars very well. If I didn't have a meter, I wouldn't of even known I was that high. Insulin injections is absolutely the worst way to control BG's anyway...
I still took my metformin (I don't anymore).
Go a month on Keto, do like I did, keep all your diabetic meds, check and do adjust downward your insulin, because you definetely don't want to "go low", (what a horrible experience!).
Then after you get adapted to Keto (in a month from now) check your BG's if they are 200 or less, ditch the insulin.
I hope this helps,
Dan0 -
lukesydaisy wrote: »(...) I'm hoping this will really help with my diabetes and maybe even allow us to have another child, because the first one is pretty awesome.
(...)
This is one problem @DittoDan didn't have.
Seriously @lukesydaisy, normal BG is even more important for you because high BG immediately before/during pregnancy is dangerous not only for you but also for your baby. At the very least he'll have a much increased risk of being born with or developing diabetes himself.
Again, I can't praise enough Dr Bernstein's book, you'll find lots of info there. But even a quick Google search will give you plenty of results such as this:
https://www.joslin.org/info/Managing_Diabetes_During_Pregnancy.html
We all want to lose weight as fast as possible. And we do lose weight, fast and forever, many of us for the first time ever. Still, when forced to choose, health comes first, weight second.
I really don't want to start a he-says-I-say argument (sorry @DittoDan).
But @lukesydaisy, it's your health and your life. BG on the 300s are dangerous and will have consequences even if not immediately easy to spot (the good news is that most of those are reversible with excellent BG control). As for a pregnancy that starts at those values and/or messing with insulin when you're hoping to conceive, that's not something you should do based on an internet forum advice no matter how informed or helpful we try to be.
I do love your optimism - and there is reason to be optimistic, diabetes is one of the easiest diseases to reverse with LCHF and so many women conceived after changing their woe - but with such high stakes you need to be careful and/or get the support of a knowledgeable doctor. Preferably both.
Take care, be happy. All this will become much easier the longer you keep at it.
::flowerforyou::0 -
Thanks again, everyone. I do feel like I should clarify, I wasn't just planning to ditch the insulin and think that this diet will magically and immediately cure everything...I just kind of wanted to see how it would be affected, and also really didn't want to start it out by crashing and having to take in lots of sugar. When I'm low, I'm in like a heart-palpitating, sweating, zombie like state and I start ransacking anything sugary I can find because I'm not thinking straight and it takes so long for me to feel back to normal.
My first little one is a miracle baby, because it was an unexpected pregnancy, I was new to insulin and wasn't really on the proper kinds/doses, and my a1c was 12.9!!! I was sure I was going to miscarry or have a baby with major or even minor birth defects, and he ended up being perfectly healthy. My diabetes was actually the best controlled it's ever been during and right after pregnancy (best a1c was 7ish, which still isn't that good). Not saying I want to risk it again, that's why I'm hoping this will help with many issues.0 -
@lukesydaisy Crashes are definitely scary and nerve wrecking. I recommend picking up some glucose tablets from the pharmacy and keeping them on hand while you're going through this transition. They will stabilise your blood sugar more efficiently and with fewer carbs. I used to just inhale everything sugary I could get my hands on when I crashed, but now, like you, I don't want a crash to screw up my diet, so I make sure I always have some glucose tabs handy. Though fortunately I haven't had to use them yet.0
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@lukesydaisy sounds good! Hope this WOL works for you as well as it has for others here.0
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As @PaleoInScotland says, glucose tablets are the best way to manage hypos. Keep them with you at all times, in an easy to reach form (no hard to open bottles or difficult blisters that you would struggle with if with shaking hands).
Just how likely are you to crash while transitioning to LC while taking insulin? Very likely, if you're not careful. But if you keep a detailed log of everything you eat, BG numbers before and after you eat, and the quantity of insulin taken, you can stay ahead and react before it hits you. Get one of those diaries with a page a day and take note of everything, with the time it happened. Also BG before you go to sleep, FBG and random BG during the day and/or if you're feeling in any way "not normal". It's boring for a while but will teach you so much about your body and make the transition much safer (besides being great info for a good doctor).
Because your body has been having high BG for some time, it's natural that you'll feel mild symptoms of a "low" with numbers that would for a normal person be high. Learn to identify those symptoms, that's when you should start very carefully lowering a tiny bit your insulin. Take your time, give your body time to adapt.
And I know that I am repeating myself but please get Dr Bernstein's book (read the comments on Amazon, many people owe their lives to this book). He explains this process in detail. There is no reason for you to have uncontrolled crashes or to "fix" them by "ransacking anything sugary" and confusing your body even further. Ideally you don't want either lows or highs, you want to teach your body to react to food within certain numbers. LC will take that interval to safe numbers.
::flowerforyou::0 -
So one thing that has popped up a lot on here is the need to be working closely with a doctor. So I live in the sticks, and need to drive 45 minutes to 2 hours to get to the larger cities. The doctor I see now is the GP that our children's home uses, and lets just say that I don't think he's a very good doctor, but I just don't know how to go about finding one that's better. From my experience here in a small-town, very rural place, we're just kind of stuck with the doctors that are maybe not so good, but what can we do about it because good doctors with options don't always want to live in the sticks. I'd be willing to travel to San Antonio, Corpus, or Victoria for a good doctor, but I'm curious if there is any way to search for a doctor who believes in this kind of diet without having to do a trial and error of visiting tons of doctors. Are there websites or databases of HFLC-friendly doctors or places where people can recommend one? I used to be on a PCOS board that had a whole page to recommending doctors in different cities. That would be very helpful for me to know 1-2 that I can try out.0
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Something worth mentioning in the subject of hypos. When you feel low, test you bg. Since you've become used to high bg, you're likely to feel low when you're in normal range. If you're above 70, don't treat it yet. Test again in 10 minutes. If it's gone down, then treat with about 10g using the glucose tablets. Then test again about 15-20 minutes. If it's going up, then you should be fine but still test again in about 30 minutes.
Your body has the ability to provide the needed glucose to bring it back up. But not if its dropping too low too fast. And it is a little trickier with the IR, because of the reduced sensitivity of course. If you over treat a hypo or treat one that's not actually low because you "feel low" you're not helping to increase the sensitivity. Does that make sense?
My daughter used to feel low at 150 because she was so used to her normal being over 300. She would always want to treat it without testing first and of course just sent it soaring high again!
It can be hard because every molecule in your body will be screaming at you to eat everything in sight, but if you have a specific plan for how to deal with it, you can be more successful in being strong through it.
My sisters doctor diagnosed her as hypoglycemic years ago and told her she needed to eat more. She was over 200lbs at 5'4". I guess he thought she starved all the time. I tried to tell her the hypos were a symptom of IR, but she had faith in her doctor and what did I know. I tried to tell her that all the extra eating every time she got "the shakes" was just making her blood sugar high. She just kept saying "but I have low blood sugar, not high blood sugar". Fast forward two years and now she's T2D with bg in the 400's every day and also put on at least 50lbs from feeding the insulin.
So anyway, my only point is to make sure any feelings of low are actual lows.0 -
lukesydaisy wrote: »[(...) is any way to search for a doctor who believes in this kind of diet without having to do a trial and error of visiting tons of doctors. Are there websites or databases of HFLC-friendly doctors or places where people can recommend one?
@FIT_Goat @baconslave @Dragonwolf couldn't we at least try to have a thread with this info? We are not enough to have a comprehensive list, of course, but there's nothing like a personal reference. I'm sure there will be sites with that info and maybe someone already knows of them and we could add them to our resources?
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lukesydaisy wrote: »So one thing that has popped up a lot on here is the need to be working closely with a doctor. So I live in the sticks, and need to drive 45 minutes to 2 hours to get to the larger cities. The doctor I see now is the GP that our children's home uses, and lets just say that I don't think he's a very good doctor, but I just don't know how to go about finding one that's better. From my experience here in a small-town, very rural place, we're just kind of stuck with the doctors that are maybe not so good, but what can we do about it because good doctors with options don't always want to live in the sticks. I'd be willing to travel to San Antonio, Corpus, or Victoria for a good doctor, but I'm curious if there is any way to search for a doctor who believes in this kind of diet without having to do a trial and error of visiting tons of doctors. Are there websites or databases of HFLC-friendly doctors or places where people can recommend one? I used to be on a PCOS board that had a whole page to recommending doctors in different cities. That would be very helpful for me to know 1-2 that I can try out.
@lukesydaisy to work with a doctor is ideal but not necessary. OK, now I know I'll sound deranged for saying the same again, but that's to show how strongly I feel about it. Dr Bernstein's book will teach you more about LC and diabetes than 90% of doctors know.
Most of us started without or against the instructions of our doctors. To move towards LC is much safer than to do nothing. The only reason I mentioned getting a doctor was because I was under the wrong idea that you were trying to conceive, ditching insulin, having BGs of 300s and unaware of the problems involved in this mix.
All that you really need is a BG meter and test strips. Your actual doctor will not be against you getting regular blood tests, especially if you tell him that you want another baby. If you have to lie about what you're eating or why your lab results are suddenly improving, just do it.
::flowerforyou::0 -
Hi there and welcome! If you don't regularly test, start doing so now. I know it takes time, but as you are transitioning to a LC diet, you need to see which foods cause you to spike...even the low carb ones. For example, I can eat apples fine, but more than a half, and I see a spike. Peanuts too, although they are fine for most people.
It is an individual journey, but there is a lot of great advice and resources on this page.
Even if your fasting is higher and your post-prandial results are within normal range, it can take MONTHS before you see a decline in your FBS.0 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »lukesydaisy wrote: »[(...) is any way to search for a doctor who believes in this kind of diet without having to do a trial and error of visiting tons of doctors. Are there websites or databases of HFLC-friendly doctors or places where people can recommend one?
@FIT_Goat @baconslave @Dragonwolf couldn't we at least try to have a thread with this info? We are not enough to have a comprehensive list, of course, but there's nothing like a personal reference. I'm sure there will be sites with that info and maybe someone already knows of them and we could add them to our resources?
We can see about starting one. We can probably draw from the Paleo Physicians Network and Primal Docs resources to start (those are where I recommend starting, because they are likely to be open to LCHF).
We'll need help from the people in the community for both resources and doctor recommendations.0 -
I don't usually remember to take my fasting blood sugar, because our early mornings are so busy getting 9 kids up and ready for school, so I really can't answer that question.
Bad excuse.
Get up earlier and set a reminder to take your blood sugar first thing. It takes only a couple of minutes to do it, and your life literally depends on it. If you don't start doing it now, you won't be around later to continue getting those kids up and ready for school.
Same goes for taking it before meals and one and two hours after meals, as well as any time you're feeling low. Yep, that means you're going to be taking it upwards of a dozen times a day. If you want another baby and you don't want your diabetes to kill you, you'll deal with it.
Regardless of whether you work with a doctor (I think you should, even if you're not telling them you're doing LCHF), you can't quit your insulin cold turkey and you may never be able to quit it entirely, depending on the state of your pancreas. I also second getting Dr. Bernstein's book. He pioneered modern diabetes management, by "eating to the meter" in an era where doctors didn't even believe diet could affect blood sugar and insulin. He's outlived his contemporaries because it literally saved his life.0 -
lukesydaisy wrote: »Thanks again, everyone. I do feel like I should clarify, I wasn't just planning to ditch the insulin and think that this diet will magically and immediately cure everything...I just kind of wanted to see how it would be affected, and also really didn't want to start it out by crashing and having to take in lots of sugar. When I'm low, I'm in like a heart-palpitating, sweating, zombie like state and I start ransacking anything sugary I can find because I'm not thinking straight and it takes so long for me to feel back to normal.
My first little one is a miracle baby, because it was an unexpected pregnancy, I was new to insulin and wasn't really on the proper kinds/doses, and my a1c was 12.9!!! I was sure I was going to miscarry or have a baby with major or even minor birth defects, and he ended up being perfectly healthy. My diabetes was actually the best controlled it's ever been during and right after pregnancy (best a1c was 7ish, which still isn't that good). Not saying I want to risk it again, that's why I'm hoping this will help with many issues.
But here is the reality, you WILL have to ditch the insulin IF you stay low and ketogenic on your carbs. It will "magically" scientifically cause your BG's to drop. All carbs convert to sugar, sugar causes your BG's to rise. So, conversely, to not eat carbs = not high BG's. Some people here are trying to put me in as a bad guy... and put words in my mouth.
If you cheat and sneak in a pie or candy bar, yes, you will have to get your insulin out and inject. But if you stay true to Keto, staying as low as you can, lets say 20 grams or less a day.... you won't be able to take the insulin, because if you do, you could DIE from going low. Its that simple.
BTW, before you get pregnant, do a YouTube search for "GAPS diet" and watch a few of the videos.
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
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(...) Some people here are trying to put me in as a bad guy... and put words in my mouth. (...)
@DittoDan I suppose you mean me. I am sorry, that was never my intention. For the record, I think you're an awesome guy!
I just thought the OP didn't have enough knowledge of LC/LCHF/Keto to apply your advice without significant risk. That's all, nothing more. Friends again?
::flowerforyou::0 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »(...) Some people here are trying to put me in as a bad guy... and put words in my mouth. (...)
@DittoDan I suppose you mean me. I am sorry, that was never my intention. For the record, I think you're an awesome guy!
I just thought the OP didn't have enough knowledge of LC/LCHF/Keto to apply your advice without significant risk. That's all, nothing more. Friends again?
::flowerforyou::
It wasn't you. Friends forever! ❤️
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